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[Aoi]

Crypt is easy (though I really hate Flayed Ghosts); the Tomb is a death trap of Negative damage, rot, disease, and mummy curses. If you can safely switch gods without losing too much potency, I highly recommend going to Kiku who'll spare you from torment damage and mummy curses. You'll definitely want to liberally stair dance to avoid getting mobbed, and, while some people disagree, I recommend shouting every few steps to try and draw stuff to you so you're not running headlong into a pack of doom. I've felt threatened in here with a full set of endgame gear before.

Vaults:5 is hit or miss depending on how you choose to tackle it; I do it the same way that Sarrak does, with liberal use of teleport and blinking to try to find a safe nook before I just start leaning on the tab button (not literally, but it feels like that).

I wouldn't do the Abyss for my third rune. It's hard to escape from there in an emergency, and even at easier floors, there are horrible things that can happen. Slime Pits aren't bad if you're careful about acid blobs (lost a potent fighter to something like -30 corrosion once...), but you might want to delay if you have very good mutations. You'll probably lose a pile of them in the process.

[Arcvasti]

I could have probably gotten the one in the Tombs - I cleared Crypt without significant trouble, and the wizard lab too - Golubria's Gauntlet, or something like that.

Tomb is one of THE hardest branches, besides maybe Dis. Absurd amounts of torment, smiting and stat drain, amongst other things.

[frostshotgg]

Plus death curses. If you use something like disaster area, you will die.

[Ozarck]

So I'll save Tomb for a Shining One run, or like suggested, go with kiku at some point. For now, I'll avoid it until I have a couple wins under my belt. I am still conflicted about whetehr to do slime abyss or vaults. I think vault"5 sounds the most straightforward, so will go with my play-style best. If I get some gear that will help in slime, maybe I'll do that, or if I have a characte rI just don't fel will go the distance, maybe I will explore it a bit to get a feel for it.

[Aoi]

So I'll save Tomb for a Shining One run, or like suggested, go with kiku at some point. For now, I'll avoid it until I have a couple wins under my belt. I am still conflicted about whetehr to do slime abyss or vaults. I think vault"5 sounds the most straightforward, so will go with my play-style best. If I get some gear that will help in slime, maybe I'll do that, or if I have a characte rI just don't fel will go the distance, maybe I will explore it a bit to get a feel for it.

There's no loot in the Slime Pits, so it's just a matter of find the stairs, clear the area so it's safe to stair dance, move on. If you're geared for it and buff to the gills for the boss, I think it's actually way easier than Vaults:5. (Speaking as a hearty meleer, at least.)

[TheDarkStar]

A few questions:

Should I go through Shoals or the Spider Nest first if I have no resistances except MR++, a nice flame-branded artifact sword, and heavy armor?
Are treasure troves ever dangerous?

[Ozarck]

A few questions:

Should I go through Shoals or the Spider Nest first if I have no resistances except MR++, a nice flame-branded artifact sword, and heavy armor?
Are treasure troves ever dangerous?

you want poison resistance for spider pit, and shoals is pretty dangerous in general. HAve you gone through the orcish mines yet? have you gone down to level 15 of the dungeon?

[lemon10]

I would do shoals if you don't have any poison resist, but those are both nasty choices.
Troves are never dangerous, if you can you should open it before doing shoals on the off chance you get something with poison resist (similarly do orc if you haven't yet).

[Ozarck]

I haven't found spider pit to be particularly challenging myself. easier, in some instances, than swamp, with it's hordes of swamp dragons, hydras, and swamp drakes all spewing noxious fumes at you on level 4. Spider pit at least usually holds few surprises, and even Arachne felt surprisingly easy my last run through. mAybe it was the Crystal Plate Armor talkign though. hte +8 Crystal Plate Armor. Yeah, that could be it.

Edit: the armor was less effective on Shoals though.

[TheDarkStar]

And I died in Shoals. I think I've died there more than any other place except for the really early dungeon.

[Arcvasti]

Plus death curses. If you use something like disaster area, you will die.

Depends on how unbalanced your stats are. If you're a MiFi or something with like six in one stat, you're getting slain. If you're more balanced and have Sustab, you can kill lots of mummies just fine. The only death curses not mitigated by rNeg+++ are ability drain, summoning and slowing. Slowing is countered by haste and even reapers are pretty wimpy by the time you get to Tomb, but ability drain is the big danger, since stat zero is very punishing even in easy branches[I once did all of Orc while Braindead. Never again.].

And I died in Shoals. I think I've died there more than any other place except for the really early dungeon.

Shoals is easily one of the deadliest areas in the game. Dis and Tomb are a higher threat level and Cerebov and Ereshkigal are more lethal guaranteed bosses then Isuilw, but you run into Shoals much earlier and thus have less options to deal with things. On top of the dangerous enemies, you're basically a naga with an inacc amulet because of all the water everywhere. Also water nymphs can somehow flood upstairs now, which is both incredibly unintuitive, dumb and really annoying.

Fun fact: Qazlal worshippers' passive storm noise is actually loud enough to shock you out of mesmerization.

[heydude6]

You're basically a naga with an inacc amulet because of all the water everywhere.

Ironically, those things wouldn't bother a naga that much in shoals.

[lemon10]

Plus death curses. If you use something like disaster area, you will die.

Depends on how unbalanced your stats are. If you're a MiFi or something with like six in one stat, you're getting slain. If you're more balanced and have Sustab, you can kill lots of mummies just fine. The only death curses not mitigated by rNeg+++ are ability drain, summoning and slowing. Slowing is countered by haste and even reapers are pretty wimpy by the time you get to Tomb, but ability drain is the big danger, since stat zero is very punishing even in easy branches[I once did all of Orc while Braindead. Never again.].

Mitigation is great, but killing too much at  once  is still lethal. My level 27 MiGl (with rN+++, 2 rings of sustanance,  bonkers AC and 27 fighting) underestimated  them and used disaster area at the entrance of tomb  3. I wiped out like 40 mummies in a single turn, and went from full health down to 5 and being attacked by 3 reapers while slowed. Thanks to my lovely healing wand I managed to survive, but a single more smite mixed in would have killed me.

Also, I find reaper curses really annoying even in the lategame, especially on mages.

E: The entrance to tomb 3 is the most perfect setup for that ability. Due to the layout every enemy gets  hit like 6 times (if your evocation is high enough) so even greater mummies die in a single cast, and there are a huge amount of very tough and very rewarding enemies. Of course it almost certainly kills you as well.

[frostshotgg]

I'm pretty sure the range/hitbox of Disaster Area was specially made to kill unsuspecting Qaz worshippers in Tomb:3.

[heydude6]

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

810888 Snakeyes the Swordmaster (level 27, -12/167 (185) HPs)
             Began as a Naga Gladiator on May 23, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Makhleb.
             Killed from afar by an orb of fire (20 damage)
             ... with a fireball
             ... on Level 4 of the Realm of Zot on May 25, 2016.
             The game lasted 10:24:16 (126207 turns).

Snakeyes the Swordmaster (Naga Gladiator)         Turns: 126207, Time: 10:24:16

HP -12/167 (185) AC 46     Str 23      XL: 27
MP  35/35        EV 17     Int 16      God: Makhleb [******]
Gold 9262        SH 40     Dex 18      Spells: 10 memorised,  0 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis +     q - +7,+8 demon blade "Bloodbane" {slice, *Rage +Rage Stlth-}
rCold  + + .     Clarity  +     X - +2 ice dragon armour of Lugonu's Benevolence {rF- rC++ Dex+2 SInv}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve +     c - -4 large shield {AC+3}
rPois  +         rCorr    +     e - +1 helmet "Bleugi" {Acc+6 Dam+3}
rElec  +         rRot     .     w - +2 cloak {rCorr, Cons}
SustAb + .       Spirit   .     V - +4 pair of gloves "Taeppy" {Str-1 Int+3 Dam+3 Stlth++}
rMut   +         Warding  .     O - +0 naga barding
Saprov . . .     Stasis   .     J - amulet of resist mutation
MR     +++..                    F - +0,+9 ring of slaying
                                U - ring of sustain abilities

@: very slow, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely stealthy
A: spit poison, constrict 1, large bone plates 1, thin skeletal structure 1, see
invisible, clarity, clever 1, clumsy 1, deformed body, deterioration 1, fire
resistance 2, herbivore 1, frail 2, poison resistance, electricity resistance,
slowness 2, slow healing 2, wild magic 2, AC +9
a: Spit Poison, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major Destruction,
Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage
}: 5/15 runes: barnacled, slimy, silver, golden, gossamer


You were on level 4 of the Realm of Zot.
You worshipped Makhleb.
Makhleb was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 15 branches of the dungeon, and saw 71 of its levels.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Bailey, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You collected 11262 gold pieces.
You spent 2000 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 q - the +7,+8 demon blade "Bloodbane" (weapon) {slice, *Rage +Rage Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Crypt)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It lets you go berserk.
   It may make you go berserk in combat.
   It makes you less stealthy.
Missiles
 r - 17 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 c - a -4 large shield of protection (worn)
 e - the +1 helmet "Bleugi" (worn) {Acc+6 Dam+3}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   It affects your accuracy with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+6).
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3).
 w - a +2 cloak of preservation (worn)
 O - a +0 naga barding (worn)
 P - a +3 leather armour of magic resistance
 R - a +1 cloak of magic resistance
 V - the +4 pair of gloves "Taeppy" (worn) {Str-1 Int+3 Dam+3 Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (-1).
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3).
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 X - the +2 ice dragon armour of Lugonu's Benevolence (worn) {rF- rC++ Dex+2 SInv}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It enhances your eyesight.
Magical devices
 t - a wand of magic darts (16)
 N - a wand of teleportation (2)
 T - a wand of disintegration (2)
 Z - a wand of digging (13)
Comestibles
 f - 10 bread rations
 g - 2 chokos
 k - 2 pears
 o - 8 apples
 y - a snozzcumber
 Q - 12 beef jerkies
Scrolls
 n - a scroll of remove curse
 s - a scroll of magic mapping
 z - 2 scrolls of immolation
 A - 4 scrolls of blinking
 D - 3 scrolls of teleportation
 K - 7 scrolls of fog
 L - 4 scrolls of identify
 Y - 6 scrolls of fear
Jewellery
 a - the ring of Styi {rC++ AC+6 Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   It affects your AC (+6).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
 d - the ring of Arurowi {rPois rF+ MR+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from poison.
 p - an uncursed amulet of warding
 u - an uncursed ring of sustenance
 v - an uncursed amulet of conservation
 B - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 C - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 E - an uncursed amulet of the gourmand
 F - a +0,+9 ring of slaying (right hand)
 G - an uncursed amulet of rage
 J - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 U - a ring of sustain abilities (left hand)
Potions
 i - 4 potions of magic
 l - 8 potions of restore abilities
 m - 3 potions of agility
 I - 6 potions of brilliance
 M - 3 potions of might
Magical staves
 S - an uncursed staff of wizardry
 W - an uncursed staff of air
Rods
 x - a +0 rod of inaccuracy (11/11)
   (You took it off a guardian mummy on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)


   Skills:
 - Level 11.0 Fighting
 O Level 27 Long Blades
 - Level 3.0 Throwing
 - Level 16.6 Armour
 - Level 17.0 Dodging
 - Level 12.1 Stealth
 - Level 15.0 Shields
 - Level 5.0 Spellcasting
 - Level 18.0 Charms
 - Level 18.0 Translocations
 - Level 21.5 Air Magic
 - Level 10.0 Invocations
 + Level 3.4 Evocations


You couldn't memorise any spells.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    #......
b - Flight                Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          3    ###....
c - Haste                 Chrm           #######.     12%         6    #######
d - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       #######.     1%          2    #......
e - Phase Shift           Tloc           #######...   6%          5    #####..
f - Apportation           Tloc           #######...   1%          1    None
g - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       #######...   8%          6    #######
h - Airstrike             Air            #######...   1%          4    ####...
i - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      #######...   3%          4    ####...
j - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   10%         3    ###....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:9
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11         Shoals (5/5) Lair:4
 Spider (5/5) Lair:3        Slime (6/6) Lair:8       Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:4      Crypt (5/5) Vaults:3       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:2
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (0/7) Hell            Geh (0/7) Hell
    Coc (0/7) Hell            Tar (0/7) Hell            Zot (4/5) Depths:5
 Depths (5/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
Orc:2 (   Orc:4 *[=(:}??   Shoals:1 :}   Shoals:4 (   Vaults:3 %

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:1


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You cannot wear boots.
You can spit poison.
You can use your snake-like lower body to constrict enemies.
Your serpentine skin is tough (AC +9).
You have supernaturally acute eyesight.
Armour fits poorly on your strangely shaped body.
Your system is resistant to poisons.
You cover ground very slowly.
You are partially covered in large bone plates (AC +2, SH +2).
You have a somewhat thin skeletal structure (Dex +2, Stealth).
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
Your mind is acute. (Int +2)
You are clumsy. (Dex -2)
Your body is slowly deteriorating.
Your flesh is very heat resistant.
You digest meat inefficiently.
You are very frail (-20% HP).
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You do not heal naturally when monsters are visible.
Your spells are harder to cast, but more powerful.


Message History

You hit the orb of fire but do no damage.
The orb of fire is severely damaged.
The orb of fire emits a lurid red light.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs you! You resist. The fireball engulfs the orb of fire. The orb of fire completely resists.
You hit the orb of fire but do no damage.
The orb of fire is severely damaged.
The electric golem throws lightning at you.
The bolt of lightning hits you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
You slash the orb of fire!
The orb of fire is almost destroyed.
The orb of fire glows red.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs you! You resist.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The fireball engulfs the orb of fire. The orb of fire completely resists.
You slash the orb of fire!
The orb of fire is almost destroyed.
The orb of fire emits a lurid red light.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs you! You resist.
You die...

...###...........###.........##...#
..## ##........#####...#......#...##
....######...######.....###........#
........................# ###.....##
........................#   #....##
..............8.........##  #...##
.........................####..##
#......<..............##...##..#
  ....................#####....#
   ..................##   ##...#
    .................#     #)...#
     ..........8.)@..#     #....#
      ...........*##)##    #.#.##
       ...........##§.#    #...#
        ...........#..###  ....#
         ..........##...##..##.#
          .........d.......#
          ..........[#####.#
           .....^.....##
           ............##
            .......#..dd#
             ...#......dd..#


You could see an orb of fire and an electric golem.

Notes
126206 | Zot:4    | HP: 8/167 [orb of fire/fireball (35)]
126207 | Zot:4    | Killed from afar by an orb of fire


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 | 10-12 | 13-15 | 16-18 | 19-21 | 22-24 | 25-27 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Long sword        |   128 |   147 |   404 |   250 |  1058 |  1708 |  1778 |  2234 |       ||  7707
       Dagger            |     4 |    13 |    14 |    11 |    12 |       |       |       |       ||    54
       Unarmed           |       |       |     8 |       |       |     4 |       |       |       ||    12
       Great sword       |       |       |       |   368 |     2 |       |       |       |     9 ||   379
       Executioner's axe |       |       |       |    17 |     5 |       |       |       |       ||    22
       Scimitar          |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 |       ||     4
       Demon blade       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |   122 |  5092 ||  5214
       Staff             |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     4 ||     4
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |    10 |    11 |     3 |       |     4 |       |       |       ||    28
       Crossbow          |       |       |       |    27 |       |       |       |       |       ||    27
Throw: Throwing net      |     3 |     1 |     8 |     3 |     1 |       |       |       |     1 ||    17
       Dart              |     1 |     1 |     2 |       |       |       |       |       |       ||     4
       Tomahawk          |       |     4 |    10 |    10 |     2 |     4 |     5 |       |       ||    35
       Javelin           |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     3 |     6 ||    10
 Cast: Blink             |       |       |       |       |     4 |     1 |     1 |       |    23 ||    29
       Flight            |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |    11 |       |    10 ||    22
       Phase Shift       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     8 |     2 |    12 ||    23
       Swiftness         |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     1 |     3 ||     7
       Repel Missiles    |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |       |       ||     3
       Deflect Missiles  |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     4 |    11 ||    16
       Airstrike         |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |    64 ||    65
       Apportation       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     3 |     1 ||     4
       Control Teleport  |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    18 ||    18
       Regeneration      |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |    67 ||    67
       Haste             |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     5 ||     5
Invok: Minor Destruction |       |       |       |     6 |     1 |       |       |       |     2 ||     9
       Major Destruction |       |       |       |     3 |    11 |     3 |     4 |     1 |     4 ||    26
       Greater Servant o |       |       |       |     2 |     8 |     2 |     8 |     1 |     3 ||    24
       Lesser Servant of |       |       |       |       |     2 |     1 |     2 |       |       ||     5
 Abil: Spit Poison       |    21 |    33 |    16 |       |       |       |     7 |     1 |     3 ||    81
       Breathe Poison Ga |       |       |    15 |    40 |    26 |    37 |     3 |       |       ||   121
       Evoke Teleport Co |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       ||     2
       Evoke Berserk Rag |       |       |       |       |       |       |       |     1 |     5 ||     6
Evoke: Rod               |       |     2 |     3 |    13 |    19 |     4 |       |       |       ||    41
       Wand              |       |       |       |     8 |    12 |     8 |     1 |     5 |    11 ||    45
  Use: Potion            |       |       |     9 |     6 |     7 |     7 |    11 |    15 |    22 ||    77
       Scroll            |       |       |     6 |    25 |    11 |    14 |    16 |    11 |    29 ||   112
 Stab: Held in net/web   |     1 |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       |       ||     3
       Sleeping          |       |       |     1 |    22 |    72 |    59 |    37 |    66 |   110 ||   367
       Distracted        |       |       |       |     2 |     2 |     9 |    13 |     9 |    20 ||    55
       Invisible         |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |       |       ||     2
       Confused          |       |       |       |       |     2 |       |       |       |     2 ||     4


Do any of you guys remember my demonspwan character I played a while back? Well his sucessor finally died and for the stupidest reasons. I got into a protracted melee with an orb of fire without casting haste, berserk, summon greater servant, or any other spell that could have saved my life. I also didn't equip my artifact ring of fire resist because reasons. I also didn't flee when things began to get pretty close. In other words, it was entirely my fault and I will learn to do better next time.

On the positive end though, this was the first time I ever visited (and conquered) tomb, and based on the suggestions I'm seeing, with fairly barebones stuff. I only had rNeg ++ and one ring of sustain abilities. On the other hand, I had two ranks of the frail mutation and two ranks of the slow regen mutation. My key to success was three things, permafood, potions of curing, and teleportation items.

Still, don't take this as a guide for how to play tomb, Nagas have 30% more hp which was probably why I wasn't smited to death. Even with that bonus hp (reduced because of frail) I had way too many close calls.