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[Aoi]

While we're talking about stabbing-- Spriggan Artificer that's leaning heavily on stabbing, courtesy of a whopping +11 shortsword I found way early. I was planning on taking (and staying with) Pakellas for the majority of the trip, but now I'm thinking of focusing on the stabber side of things and going with Dithmenos instead. With having effectively no experience playing: Spriggan, artificer, stabber, Pakellas or Dithmenos... any insight on what'd be easiest and most effective for a short run?

[Arcvasti]

Depends if you want to really enhance your strengths or compensate for your weaknesses. Dith makes you godly[heh] at stabbing, but offers relatively little else if that falls through. Pakellas gives robust magical offense/utility at the cost of making spellcasting difficult. I'd go with the latter, since my stealth runs usually founder because I lack non-stabby offense.

[frostshotgg]

Dith is really really good. If you can get him up to 5* you've basically won the game, at least through the dungeon floors. Shadow Form is really really good.

[Aoi]

Dith is really really good. If you can get him up to 5* you've basically won the game, at least through the dungeon floors. Shadow Form is really really good.

Well, that went poorly.

Got Dithmenos up to 6*, survived having to dance four different floors with powerful ghosts while being drained(red), pushed Ensorcelled Hibernation high enough to be reliably cast, a handy artifact with rPois/Stealth+, and then teleported (mutation... bleargh) straight into a pack of centaurs on L12 or so. Forgot about Shadow Form-- that probably would've saved me. ;_;

My offensive power was REALLY lacking though; if it wasn't asleep, I had to run. (On the other hand, I didn't encounter a single thing that didn't die if I managed to stab it.)

[Arcvasti]

My offensive power was REALLY lacking though; if it wasn't asleep, I had to run. (On the other hand, I didn't encounter a single thing that didn't die if I managed to stab it.)

Yep. Personally, that's why I recommend Nemelex/Pakellas on stealthy people. Most good stealth races have decent Evocations apts and it gives them pretty neat magical firepower and escapes. Dith's got Shadow Form, which is an ok escape/panic button[Ain't got nothing on Sanctuary/Step From Time though], but that's pretty much all the non-stealth stuff he does for you. If you want to be the RNG's plaything, then definitely go for a Stealth/Hexes run with Dith. Most binary character ever. Either you get lucky and hex your enemy into letting you stab them or they resist and you either lose consumables or the game. No real middle ground.

[heydude6]

So, a while ago I played a Merfolk of trog and made it all the way to vaults 2 before dying. This was because at vaults, my offensive power began to seriously drop off (weaker than my demon whip demonspawn). Now my question is this, when is it a good time to abandon trog? I was hoping to wait until I got a bardiche of flaming or freezing, but the best brand I got on that thing was +4 +7 protection (would a glaive of +4 +5 flaming or freezing have been more useful?)

[Moron]

Vehumet and Sif give you lots of spells of different sorts, plus their active powers are more fun. Kiku gives you the same few Necromancery spells and corpses.

Kiku also gives you a guaranteed pain branded weapon, which is the most awesome brand for someone who has high levels in necromancy... which Kiku encourages you to train.

Between that and Dispel Undead (also guaranteed) you can take on everything except demons and nonliving monsters which are both rare outside of extended - and even when you do find something that these won't take care of, you get to generate hordes of undead.

[Arcvasti]

So there goes my NaFE of Chei, slain in Pandemonium. A few things killed me:

- I had one rank of no device heal, which I didn't want to get rid of because I had Robust. Because of this, my wand of heal wounds didn't bring me up as much as I thought it would have.

- I NEVER got Fire Storm and my final battle was in a super enclosed space where Tornado wasn't that effective.

- I spent most of the game with rF+++ and no rC. But in Extended, because I needed rMut and because I picked up some neat artifacts, I instead had rC+++ and no rF. So the flaming brand on a Reaper's scythe did more damage then I expected.

- Even with those things, I literally died by ONE POINT of damage. I was at a perfect zero health. If I'd survived with 1hp, I could have Stepped from Time and most likely survived just fine.

All in all, a depressingly regular combination of bullshit led to a promising character's death. It always used to feel weird to me to die in Extended, but now its happened three times[Only once due to being legitimately outclassed and not just derping].

[TheDarkStar]

Extended?

[EnigmaticHat]

The Hells and Pandemonium.  So called because you don't need to go there and they allow you to play infinitely, as long as you want.

Or more broadly, continuing to get seek runes after the 3 that you actually need.  I suppose Tomb and the Abyss could count as extended as well, maybe Slime Pits too.

[frostshotgg]

Extended lategame, stuff you do that's harder than a basic 3 rune run. Goes basically from Orb:5 difficulty through Ziggurat 27 (after completing 13 other ziggurats through 27), although very, very few runs go anywhere near the far end of the scale.

[TheDarkStar]

I currently have a fairly successful character, mostly because I found a set of artifact +9/seeinv/inv plate armor early on and then got two artifact rings that increase strength and dexterity. I also found a set of boots that grant unlimited flight, which is nice.

On the other hand, I've only just cleared out Lair and so I have no idea how I'll do on the subbranches (although I'm going to wait until I've also cleared the Orcish mines). The last time I had a promising character get this far, he got slaughtered in Shoals.

[Arcvasti]

I currently have a fairly successful character, mostly because I found a set of artifact +9/seeinv/inv plate armor early on and then got two artifact rings that increase strength and dexterity. I also found a set of boots that grant unlimited flight, which is nice.

On the other hand, I've only just cleared out Lair and so I have no idea how I'll do on the subbranches (although I'm going to wait until I've also cleared the Orcish mines). The last time I had a promising character get this far, he got slaughtered in Shoals.

Flying boots help immensely in Shoals. Being unbreathing helps even more and being completely immortal is better still.

Got a morgue file of that run, Arcvasti? Sounds quite interesting.

Yep.

Spoiler: Morgue file (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-2220-g6fea741 (tiles) character file.

946612 cats the Ruinous (level 27, 0/306 HPs)
             Began as a Naga Fire Elementalist on Mar 22, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Cheibriados.
             Slain by a reaper
             ... wielding a +0 scythe of flaming
              (16 damage)
             ... in Pandemonium on Mar 24, 2016.
             The game lasted 06:40:14 (101825 turns).

cats the Ruinous (Naga Fire Elementalist)         Turns: 101825, Time: 06:40:14

Health: 0/306      AC: 31    Str: 27    XL:     27
Magic:  7/48       EV: 20    Int: 42    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   1981       SH: 11    Dex: 38    Spells: 14 memorised, 5 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     a - +7 sacred scourge (holy)
rCold  + + +     Clarity  .     U - +6 mottled dragon armour
rNeg   + + .     SustAt   .     r - +3 buckler of Reason {rCorr Int-2 Dex+4}
rPois  +         Gourm    .     d - +0 helmet of Gluttony {rN+ SInv Stlth-}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     g - +2 cloak
rCorr  +         Warding  .     o - +0 pair of gloves of Hahohut {rC++ rN+ Dex+3}
rMut   +         Stasis   .     z - +0 naga barding
MR     +++..                    n - amulet of resist mutation
Stlth  +++.......               V - ring of Woitroh {Int+4 Slay+5}
                                O - ring "Beriok" {rElec rC+ Dex+2 SInv}

@: delayed fireball, deflect missiles, very slow, extremely resistant to hostile
enchantments, fairly stealthy
A: see invisible, deformed body, deterioration 1, poison resistance, robust 1,
slowness 2, slow metabolism 1, spit poison 2, no device heal 1, constrict 1, AC
+9
a: Spit Poison, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce
Religion, Release Delayed Fireball
}: 6/15 runes: serpentine, barnacled, slimy, silver, abyssal, dark


You were in Pandemonium.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and saw 63 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 8 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You visited 1 ziggurat, and saw 16 of its levels.
You also visited: Ice Cave.

You collected 10689 gold pieces.
You spent 8708 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +7 sacred scourge of holy wrath (weapon)
Missiles
 N - 8 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 d - the +0 helmet of Gluttony (worn) {rN+ SInv Stlth-}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 2 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you see invisible.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 g - a +2 cloak (worn)
 o - the +0 pair of gloves of Hahohut (worn) {rC++ rN+ Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 r - the +3 buckler of Reason (worn) {rCorr Int-2 Dex+4}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (-2).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
 z - a +0 naga barding (worn)
 H - a +2 shield of resistance
 U - a +6 mottled dragon armour (worn)
Magical Staves
 b - an uncursed staff of fire
 c - an uncursed staff of energy
Jewellery
 n - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 G - the amulet "Tuixuick" {+Rage rF+ rN+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [amulet of rage]
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you go berserk.
 O - the ring "Beriok" (left hand) {rElec rC+ Dex+2 SInv}
   (You took it off a merfolk on level 3 of the Shoals)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It lets you see invisible.
 P - the ring "Nera" {SustAt +Fly rF- Int+3 Stlth+}
   (You took it off a boggart on level 3 of the Depths)   
   
   [ring of sustain attributes]
   
   It sustains your strength, intelligence and dexterity.
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It makes you vulnerable to fire.
   It lets you fly.
   It makes you more stealthy.
 T - the ring of Idealism {rF+ rC+ rN+}
   (You found it on level 5 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
 V - the ring of Woitroh (right hand) {Int+4 Slay+5}
   (You found it on level 9 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of intelligence]
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+5).
Wands
 e - a wand of heal wounds (6)
 D - a wand of fire (14)
 R - a wand of teleportation (8)
 X - a wand of cold (15)
Scrolls
 j - 3 scrolls of holy word
 k - 10 scrolls of identify
 v - 4 scrolls of blinking
 y - a scroll of amnesia
 A - 35 scrolls of remove curse
 B - 22 scrolls of teleportation
 K - 9 scrolls of fog
 S - 4 scrolls of fear
 Y - 6 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 f - 5 potions of lignification
 m - 7 potions of heal wounds
 s - 10 potions of cure mutation
 u - 22 potions of curing
 w - 8 potions of might
 x - 4 potions of magic
 C - 2 potions of ambrosia
 E - 4 potions of resistance
 F - 4 potions of invisibility
 I - 5 potions of cancellation
 M - 7 potions of agility
 W - 4 potions of brilliance
Miscellaneous
 i - a lamp of fire
 l - the horn of Geryon
 q - a disc of storms
 t - a lantern of shadows
 L - a phial of floods
 Q - 6 phantom mirrors
Comestibles
 h - 17 meat rations
 p - 29 bread rations


   Skills:
 + Level 22.7 Fighting
   Level 4.3 Long Blades
 - Level 12.4 Maces & Flails
 - Level 7.4 Armour
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 3.0 Stealth
 + Level 2.8 Shields
 + Level 21.5 Spellcasting
 + Level 24.5 Conjurations
 - Level 9.2 Summonings
 + Level 15.3 Translocations
 + Level 23.6 Fire Magic
 + Level 24.3 Air Magic
 - Level 12.2 Invocations
 - Level 10.0 Evocations


You had 5 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
b - Airstrike             Air            ########..   0%          4    None
c - Tornado               Air            ########..   3%          9    ###....
d - Fireball              Conj/Fire      ########..   0%          5    None
e - Bolt of Magma         Conj/Fire/Erth ########..   1%          5    None
f - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      ########..   0%          6    None
g - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   1%          7    None
i - Summon Butterflies    Summ           #######.     0%          1    None
j - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       #######...   1%          6    None
k - Apportation           Tloc           ########..   0%          1    None
l - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          10%         8    None
m - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          0%          2    None
n - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #####.....   1%          3    None
o - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    None
p - Aura of Abjuration    Summ           #######...   1%          5    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7            Lair (8/8) D:10
 Shoals (4/4) Lair:6        Snake (4/4) Lair:6        Slime (6/6) Lair:8
    Orc (4/4) D:11            Elf (3/3) Orc:3        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:3       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (0/7) Hell            Geh (0/7) Hell
    Coc (0/7) Hell            Tar (0/7) Hell            Zot (4/5) Depths:5
Grand Total: 4761 creatures vanquished


Actually, looking back on it, I couldn't have used Step From Time. Not enough magic. I could still have done better, but that option was a no go.

On an unrelated note, I found the Lightning Scales with this char. Was seriously considering abandoning Chei, but decided his wrath was too ridiculous and just didn't get it.

[Aoi]

Sigh. Does anybody else actually dread getting really good RNG early on, because of how it feels like it usually corresponds with an equally nasty backlash? (Which, I admit, a lot of them could be avoided, but nnnngggrhhh...)

Why, hello there 2nd floor Oka+Amulet of Faith-- wups, you're going to fall down a chasm into a pack of ogres.

Like that nice, shiny, early, end-game quality artifact gold dragon scale armor you got? Too bad; you're going to get banished by a random mob with a weapon of distortion in a few minutes.

Got like 70AR20EV30SH, great resistances, and a mediocre weapon? I, the great and powerful Oka, shall bestow upon you... an eveningstar of distortion. (btw, I especially enchanted it so it'll drop you right next to the Abyssal Rune of Zot, and a gazillion wretched stars. Enjoy!)

[heydude6]

I know exactly what you're talking about. For some strange reason, whenever I get some good stuff, lower depth mobs like hill giants and cyclops' start spawning earlier. I don't get it, crawl isn't IVAN.