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[Antioch]

So why was permanent xp damage from draining attacks removed?

What tedium did that add?

Uh... the tedium of grinding out more XP?

And what would you do otherwise? Not kill exactly the same creatures?

[frostshotgg]

You either are strong enough to progress, or you have to go back and grind more enemies and hope you don't have to hang around long enough for OOD threats to spawn and end your run. It's extremely rare in crawl that you're strong enough for loss of skill to be a non issue for the area and also actually going through the area to progress.

[Micro102]

If there is one thing I can criticize about the changes, it is definitely the food. I never run out. I can walk all through the dungeon and still have a stack of 20+ bread and steak by the time I reach Zot. It removes the big plus some races got for their ability to ignore food.

Identification is also a bit wonky. I can understand a weapon looking different if it's got a brand, but +/- enchantments should not show a difference.

[heydude6]

If there is one thing I can criticize about the changes, it is definitely the food. I never run out. I can walk all through the dungeon and still have a stack of 20+ bread and steak by the time I reach Zot. It removes the big plus some races got for their ability to ignore food.

I thought permafood was always plentiful.

Identification is also a bit wonky. I can understand a weapon looking different if it's got a brand, but +/- enchantments should not show a difference.

It used to be that brands were auto-identified but enchantments weren't. You could eventually auto-identify a weapon's enchantment if you have enough exp in the appropriate skill (kind of like wands). They eventually changed that and in my opinion, for the better.

My criticism about it though is this. I feel more likely to test the identical weapons I find randomly on the ground hoping that I get one with a better enchantment. Sometimes it pays off, but sometimes I end up getting a crappy cursed version. This is too reliant on the RNG. The chance of risk is too rare to seriously factor into your decision making, but when it does happen it can screw over your run (if you don't have a scroll of remove curse).

[Micro102]

If there is one thing I can criticize about the changes, it is definitely the food. I never run out. I can walk all through the dungeon and still have a stack of 20+ bread and steak by the time I reach Zot. It removes the big plus some races got for their ability to ignore food.

I thought permafood was always plentiful.

Identification is also a bit wonky. I can understand a weapon looking different if it's got a brand, but +/- enchantments should not show a difference.

It used to be that brands were auto-identified but enchantments weren't. You could eventually auto-identify a weapon's enchantment if you have enough exp in the appropriate skill (kind of like wands). They eventually changed that and in my opinion, for the better.

My criticism about it though is this. I feel more likely to test the identical weapons I find randomly on the ground hoping that I get one with a better enchantment. Sometimes it pays off, but sometimes I end up getting a crappy cursed version. This is too reliant on the RNG. The chance of risk is too rare to seriously factor into your decision making, but when it does happen it can screw over your run (if you don't have a scroll of remove curse).

I played a long time ago, like, way before the hive was removed. Running out of food was a threat, and you used to have to actually use the weapons to figure out what brand they had.

[Arcvasti]

If there is one thing I can criticize about the changes, it is definitely the food. I never run out. I can walk all through the dungeon and still have a stack of 20+ bread and steak by the time I reach Zot. It removes the big plus some races got for their ability to ignore food.

Excuse me, I'm going to fight you on this point. The main hunger advantage of gourmand/carnivore or being undead isn't really strategic attrition, you're right. Its being able to last longer in protracted fights while using high-level spells and other abilities with large nutrition costs. Also being resistant or immune to fucking Death cobs[New as of 0.17] is an asset on par with rot or petrification immunity, just by itself. Completely invalidating the attacks of a very dangerous type of monster is very useful[Maybe not worth picking one of those races for by itself, but still a nice plus].

[Micro102]

If there is one thing I can criticize about the changes, it is definitely the food. I never run out. I can walk all through the dungeon and still have a stack of 20+ bread and steak by the time I reach Zot. It removes the big plus some races got for their ability to ignore food.

Excuse me, I'm going to fight you on this point. The main hunger advantage of gourmand/carnivore or being undead isn't really strategic attrition, you're right. Its being able to last longer in protracted fights while using high-level spells and other abilities with large nutrition costs. Also being resistant or immune to fucking Death cobs[New as of 0.17] is an asset on par with rot or petrification immunity, just by itself. Completely invalidating the attacks of a very dangerous type of monster is very useful[Maybe not worth picking one of those races for by itself, but still a nice plus].

Sorry, I'm not understanding what you are trying to argue here.

[Arcvasti]

If there is one thing I can criticize about the changes, it is definitely the food. I never run out. I can walk all through the dungeon and still have a stack of 20+ bread and steak by the time I reach Zot. It removes the big plus some races got for their ability to ignore food.

Excuse me, I'm going to fight you on this point. The main hunger advantage of gourmand/carnivore or being undead isn't really strategic attrition, you're right. Its being able to last longer in protracted fights while using high-level spells and other abilities with large nutrition costs. Also being resistant or immune to fucking Death cobs[New as of 0.17] is an asset on par with rot or petrification immunity, just by itself. Completely invalidating the attacks of a very dangerous type of monster is very useful[Maybe not worth picking one of those races for by itself, but still a nice plus].

Sorry, I'm not understanding what you are trying to argue here.

I guess I'm arguing that hunger still has major tactical implications besides just running out and starving. On reflection, I'm not even sure you implied that wasn't the case. Welp.

[Micro102]

I've never gotten far in the dungeon as a mage, but I can tell that there can be a case where they can run out of food by repeatedly casting high level spells. My problem is that the dangers of starvation has been reduced to just that, mass casting of high level spells. I really liked it when I could breath a sigh of relief at not having to worry about food after picking ghoul. Now it's almost phased out of the game completely. Why have your character eat when he will never run out of food?


I also have a question regarding the necronomicon. Should a melee character who barely uses magic ever bother aiming towards necromutation? Like late game, your armor skill is maxed out, throw on necromancy for a while and turn into undead?

[Arcvasti]

I also have a question regarding the necronomicon. Should a melee character who barely uses magic ever bother aiming towards necromutation? Like late game, your armor skill is maxed out, throw on necromancy for a while and turn into undead?

I'd only REALLY recommend it if you're Demonspawn, honestly. TSO provides decent torment protection and healing and whatnot on kill and is usually my preferred way of dealing with extended. For Demonspawn though, Necromancy is their best aptitude AND they can't worship good gods. That said, if you have to choose ONE magic school to branch into and you don't want to worship a good god[Zin is also pretty great, for the record], Necromancy is your best bet. Ironically, full casters probably get LESS use out of the Necronomicon since the high-level Necromancy spells[Death's Door, Necromutation & Bornjor's Revivification] work best in a set and that's 23 spell levels you need to dedicate right there. Melee characters easily have that many and don't have as many dedicated to high-level offense spells, so they can afford the investment better.

I've never gotten far in the dungeon as a mage, but I can tell that there can be a case where they can run out of food by repeatedly casting high level spells. My problem is that the dangers of starvation has been reduced to just that, mass casting of high level spells. I really liked it when I could breath a sigh of relief at not having to worry about food after picking ghoul.

I guess that's fair enough. No spell hunger is still pretty powerful though, especially combined with channeling. Not that I've ever gotten a Mummy far enough that it becomes relevant, though. Stupid -2 aptitudes in everything...

[Adragis]

Is it possible to pull morgue(?) files off the Android version, or screenshots? I feel the urge to share some of them but never really play PC.

[debvon]

The android version actually works? I've tried on numerous occasions to run it and it always just crashes after character creation. What the hell?

[Adragis]

Are you using the ASCII or webtiles? I use ASCII and it runs perfectly fine.

[monk12]

So my Hill Orc Fighter of Beogh just found the +3 Elemental Staff (rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5) on D:6. I've been building towards Axes, and Hill Orcs have a -1 aptitude for Staves, and I'm generally shit at this game and I've never used Staves before. My worry is that I'll be underpowered if I try to invest in Staves at this juncture, as I'm working on Evocations so I can blast my way past Lair Hydras; do you think I should delay switching until I get some meatshields at the least, or do I just thank the RNG and carry on?

[Micro102]

So my Hill Orc Fighter of Beogh just found the +3 Elemental Staff (rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5) on D:6. I've been building towards Axes, and Hill Orcs have a -1 aptitude for Staves, and I'm generally shit at this game and I've never used Staves before. My worry is that I'll be underpowered if I try to invest in Staves at this juncture, as I'm working on Evocations so I can blast my way past Lair Hydras; do you think I should delay switching until I get some meatshields at the least, or do I just thank the RNG and carry on?

If you are going to be training evocations and have that disgusting OP staff, then I can't really foresee you having the need for staff experience. If you really need to melee someone with that staff, it would be when you have run out of all escape options, run out of all nearly all wands, run out of MP, run out of some potions, and be up against something that is melee range that is faster than you or if you are completely surrounded. Frankly, if you get to that point then diverting some experience to staff would not have helped you.