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[EnigmaticHat]

I'm pretty sure your character could cream Tomb.  BUT, pretty much anyone can lose in Tomb if they play it wrong.  Its the earliest place in the game where you'll have to deal with large amounts of the "enemy that can damage you so long as they can see you" mechanics that the late game is so fond of.

Fortunately you have pretty crazy gear and stats, plus rN++.  Try to get rN+++ and don't let more than two of the powerful mummy types into your sights at once (ideally just one).  You should be fine.  Definitely clear out everything in the standard dungeon besides Zot: 5 before you attempt Tomb.  Maybe even do Abyssal first, not sure how hard that is comparatively.

[Arcvasti]

I'd say clear out the Crypt before making any larger decisions. The Crypt can contain pretty good loot[Including the vital amulet of rMut you seem to be missing] and its a smaller taste of what Tomb has to offer. If you find an rMut amulet, I'd recommend clearing Slime and maybe Pan before heading anywhere near Tomb. If you do decide to go for Tomb, get that rNeg+++ and try and find something that gives regen to counter the amounts of irresistible damage you're going to be taking. Usually the Regeneration spell at decent spellpower suffices, but that doesn't play nice with Maxwells and your spell skills are still non-existent. An amulet of regeneration could help, if you don't NEED anything else on your neck slot. Venom is useless against undead or demons, but Distortion is actively detrimental, particularly on quick weapons. It has an annoying tendency to blink or teleport enemies away before they're dead..

[Antioch]

Tomb gets vastly more difficult without either necromutation or a god that offers protection from curses.

You used to be able to avoid curses by using summons but they took that out, which I think is lame. NOW you are now basically forced to have protection. You used to be able to summon angels with TSO or berserkers with Trog and still manage.

Doing tomb with Zin however is actually pretty fun, reciting a couple of times turns the majority of guardian mummies to salt and he protects from a lot of death curses.

[Sarrak]

Most fun I had doing Tomb was going in as Messiah of Beogh, right after Pan-leveling my apostles. It was nerve-wracking, but fun indeed.

[Arcvasti]

Tomb gets vastly more difficult without either necromutation or a god that offers protection from curses.

Oh yeah, I completely forgot about death curses. The only relevant death curses, really, are torment and stat drain. Torment means you take another third or so of your health in damage[Which hurts]. Stat drain can easily be fatal if your weak stat[If any] gets hit with it again and again. So sustain abilities is also pretty vital, although I think potions of restore abilities are still a thing in .14, so you could just use a bunch of those.

You used to be able to avoid curses by using summons but they took that out, which I think is lame. NOW you are now basically forced to have protection. You used to be able to summon angels with TSO or berserkers with Trog and still manage.

Meh, I feel its fair. You're getting the xp from their kills, you should get any other consequences from killing them as well. Neutral creatures, like demons summoned via Lugonu's Corrupt ability, might not work the same way.

[Micro102]

So how do you guys handle acid blobs? Even with corrosion resistance I have trouble handling even one of them. I was playing as a deep dwarf who focused heavily on fighting and evocation. My god was Maklehb (or whatever his name is). It just did not seem feasible to spam summons and magic wands whenever I fight one of these things. Everything else in the slime pits was easy to deal with and I could handle the Elven Halls and Vault 4 just fine.

[monk12]

For that build, I'd probably invoke Greater Devastation (or whatever that Makhleb ability is called.) Though to be fair, for that build Slime is going to be one of the harder runes to get; you'll want to hang on to a couple of wands that can fire through enemies to take on the Royal Jelly.

[heydude6]

Well, it was a good run but my demonspawn abyssal knight finally died.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14.1 (tiles) character file.

675552 Faust the Peltast (level 27, -1/210 HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Abyssal Knight on Jan 29, 2016.
             Was the Champion of Lugonu.
             Slain by Tiamat
             ... wielding a +0,+0 bardiche of flaming
              (6 damage)
             ... on Level 1 of the Realm of Zot on Jan 31, 2016.
             The game lasted 08:05:57 (99784 turns).

Faust the Peltast (Demonspawn Abyssal Knight)      Turns: 99784, Time: 08:05:57

HP  -1/210       AC 54     Str 36      XL: 27
MP  32/32        EV  9     Int 13      God: Lugonu [******]
Gold 4387        SH 56     Dex 18      Spells:  1 memorised, 25 levels left

rFire  . . .     SeeInvis +     d - +9,+7 demon whip (distort)
rCold  + + .     Rnd*Rage +     e - +15 Maxwell's patent armour {rCorr, Cons, -Cast -Tele MR+}
rNeg   + . .     Conserve +     h - -1 large shield {AC+3}
rPois  .         rCorr    +     W - +0 mask of the Dragon {MR+ Acc+3 Dam+3 SInv}
rElec  .         rRot     .     o - +2 cloak
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     m - +1 pair of gloves {Dex+3}
rMut   +         Warding  .     (boots unavailable)
Saprov . . .     NoTele   +     Y - amulet of resist mutation
MR     ++++.     NoCast   +     D - +5 ring of strength
                                F - ring "Regu" {rN+ AC+5}

@: mighty, incredibly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: hooves 3, horns 1, rugged brown scales 3, berserk 1, cold resistance 2,
conserve potions, fast metabolism 1, icemail, low mp 2, sense surroundings 1,
powered by pain 3, screaming 2, slow healing 1, spit poison 1, strong 1,
augmentation 3
a: Spit Poison, Depart the Abyss, Bend Space, Banish, Corrupt, Enter the Abyss,
Renounce Religion
}: 5/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver, abyssal


You were on level 1 of the Realm of Zot.
You worshipped Lugonu.
Lugonu was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 14 branches of the dungeon, and saw 66 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 2 times.
You also visited: Ice Cave, Volcano and Wizlab.

You collected 8261 gold pieces.
You spent 3874 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 d - a +9,+7 demon whip of distortion (weapon)
Armour
 e - the +15 Maxwell's patent armour (worn) {rCorr, Cons, -Cast -Tele MR+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It prevents spellcasting.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.
 h - a -1 large shield of protection (worn)
 m - a +1 pair of gloves of dexterity (worn)
 o - a +2 cloak (worn)
 W - the +0 mask of the Dragon (worn) {MR+ Acc+3 Dam+3 SInv}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your accuracy with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3).
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It enhances your eyesight.
Magical devices
 c - a wand of cold (5)
 i - a wand of confusion (15)
 k - a wand of disintegration (4)
 l - a wand of invisibility (1)
 t - a wand of fire (10)
 x - a wand of paralysis (11)
 A - a wand of digging (4)
 T - a wand of lightning (6)
Comestibles
 b - 2 cheeses
 M - 4 apples
 Z - 12 bread rations
Scrolls
 a - a scroll of torment
 n - 2 scrolls of enchant armour
 r - 14 scrolls of remove curse
 u - 11 scrolls of magic mapping
 y - 5 scrolls of vulnerability
 z - 3 scrolls of recharging
 C - 2 scrolls of summoning
 I - 15 scrolls of identify
 J - 9 scrolls of fear
 K - 6 scrolls of blinking
 U - a scroll of silence
 V - 2 scrolls of fog
Jewellery
 f - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 j - an uncursed amulet of rage
 q - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 v - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 B - an uncursed ring of flight
 D - a +5 ring of strength (right hand)
 F - the ring "Regu" (left hand) {rN+ AC+5}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   It affects your AC (+5).
   It protects you from negative energy.
 R - the ring "Zuid" {rN+ Dex+5}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 S - an uncursed amulet of guardian spirit
 Y - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
Potions
 g - 5 potions of invisibility
 s - 5 potions of might
 w - 8 potions of agility
 G - 2 potions of resistance
 H - 5 potions of restore abilities
 N - 5 potions of heal wounds
 O - 4 potions of haste
 P - a potion of berserk rage
 Q - 21 potions of curing
Miscellaneous
 p - a disc of storms
 E - a lamp of fire
 X - the horn of Geryon
Rods
 L - a +5 rod of ignition (14/14)
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Depths)


   Skills:
 - Level 12.0 Fighting
 + Level 19.3 Maces & Flails
 - Level 24.0 Armour
 - Level 1.1 Dodging
 - Level 25.0 Shields
 - Level 13.7 Invocations
 - Level 18.0 Evocations


You had 25 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Apportation           Tloc           #.........   61%         1    ##.....


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:7             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:11          Swamp (5/5) Lair:6
  Snake (5/5) Lair:5        Slime (6/6) Lair:8       Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:4      Crypt (5/5) Vaults:3       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:2
   Hell (1/1)                 Coc (0/7) Hell            Zot (2/5) Depths:5
 Depths (5/5) D:15       
   Dis: Hell:1         Geh: Hell:1         Tar: Hell:1     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:6 ?   D:7 *   D:10 %   D:14 %((:%   Orc:1 (   Orc:2 %((([   Orc:4 :*!=   Elf:1 [   Elf:2 :   Elf:3 [(!   Vaults:3 (   Vaults:4 !?!([
Depths:2 :   Depths:4 }

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Depths:2 Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
D:3 Purgy
D:4 Faust's ghost, average TeCj
Zot:1 Tiamat
Abyss:1 Erica


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have hooves in place of feet.
You are completely covered in rugged brown scales (AC +3, +7% HP).
Your flesh is very cold resistant.
You are very good at protecting items from cold.
A meltable icy envelope protects you from harm and freezing vapours (AC +0).
You are powered by pain.
Your magical and physical power is greatly enhanced at high health.
You have a pair of small horns on your head.
You tend to lose your temper in combat.
You have a fast metabolism.
Your magical capacity is very low (-20% MP).
You passively map a small area around you.
You sometimes yell uncontrollably.
You heal slowly when monsters are visible.
You can spit poison.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)


Message History

Lugonu accepts your kill.
You whack the red draconian! Space bends around the red draconian. You kick the red draconian.
The red draconian is lightly wounded.
You block the red draconian's attack.
You whack the red draconian! Your kick misses the red draconian. Your headbutt misses the red draconian.
The red draconian is moderately wounded.
The red draconian disappears!
Tiamat breathes lightning at you.
The bolt of lightning hits you! You focus on the pain.
You feel very mighty all of a sudden.
The mottled draconian scorcher gestures at you while chanting.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs Tiamat. The fireball engulfs you!
Your icy envelope dissipates! x2
One of your 10 scrolls of fear catches fire!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Tiamat hits you with a bardiche of flaming!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Your icy envelope dissipates!
Tiamat burns you!
You die...

############...######......######...
           ##..#    #......##   #...
       ######..#    ##..%...##  #.^.
    ####....[[[##    ##......## #...
    #...........#     ##......###...
    #...........##     ##......##...
    ##...........#      ##..........
     #..........)##      ##.........
     #..........[.#       ##........
     ##8......##[)##       ##.......
      #.....####...##       ##......
      ##...##  ##.@.##       ##.....
       #.###    ##§d8##       ###...
       ###       ##[..##        #[..
                  ##.d.###      #...
                  #.>..§.###    #(..
                 ##%...§...###  #%..
                ##.........d.####...
               ##.............[.....
              ##.........###.[[.....
              #§.........# #####.>..
              ##........##     ##...


You could see Tiamat and a mottled draconian scorcher.
Slain by Tiamat though, so at least it was an honorable death. What happened was that I accidentally dragged her up while I was stairdancing and so I had to kill her and her mooks. I managed to narrow her mooks down to just one but by then I had about my third of my health remaining. Suddenly the scorcher hits me with a disproportionately powerful fireball, and then Tiamat finishes me off with that wimpy 6 damage attack.

I could think of a few things I could have done differently: use a different set of stairs, travel to the abyss (I was able to get the rune there so it couldn't have been that bad), replace my maxwell's armour with some gold dragon armour (less AC but elemental attacks bypass AC, you need resistances), or quaff a potion of resistance before initiating the fight.

It's a learning experience, but I can't imagine how a mage could possibly get this far. They would just be absolutely destroyed by all of those powerful attacks that I was thankfully able to tank.

[casserol]

Hey there ! I wanted to debrief my first 15 rune victory (and second overall) but i can't for the life of me find the chardump . I'm on winxp, any idea where they go by default ?

Also, is it me or is 0.17 much easier than the previous versions ? Is it why you all seem to be playing 0.14 ?

[EnigmaticHat]

It's a learning experience, but I can't imagine how a mage could possibly get this far. They would just be absolutely destroyed by all of those powerful attacks that I was thankfully able to tank.

Any character who doesn't wear heavy armor can invest in stealth and nope out when they see something especially dangerous.  Against truly lategame threats armor doesn't do much, the main defensive mechanism at that point is health.  Mages still get plenty of health from their levels and the fighting skill, what they miss out on is strength (which is pretty significant granted, but they should still break 100 or whatever).  The function of heavy armor, which is to take the edge off of weaker enemies or fast/ranged physical attackers, gets filled pretty handily by the insane AoE magic that mages get in the lategame.  If you want to make a caster who just doesn't give a fuck about massive groups of enemies including lategame ones, worship Vehumet, Makleb, or The Shining One and repeatedly cast Shatter/Glaciate/Tornado/ect.  Each cast will restore health or mana while damaging everything onscreen.

Lategame magic can break the game in some pretty fundamental ways.  Necromutation removes the hunger penalty for casting, not normally a huge concern but it does allow you to take your time pretty much infinitely.  Haunt lets you summon on top of enemies rather than yourself; targeted AoE spells (or ball lightning) let you put some hurt on enemies that are out of LoS which is normally completely off limits in Crawl.  There's also a lot of crazy utility stuff like targeted blink without scrolls, haste on demand, manipulating LoS, probably a bunch of stuff I don't know about.

In general casting is a very powerful playstyle but you have to focus all the time because one fuckup and your dead.  Like stealth.  Whereas big beefy melee characters can pretty much tab their way through 90% of the encounters if things are going well (no insult to that playstyle, its my preferred way of playing and still balanced).

[Arcvasti]

It's a learning experience, but I can't imagine how a mage could possibly get this far. They would just be absolutely destroyed by all of those powerful attacks that I was thankfully able to tank.

Level 9 spells + either Necromancy or TSO, mostly. Its usually GETTING there that's the hard part. I've only really died with a mage in full-on wreck mode to unlucky Vehumet wrath when I decided to switch to another god.

[flame99]

I didn't post it here, because it slipped my mind (and I didn't make a chardump ;., but I recently got ahold of the Orb with a melee-based M&F expert (I forget what combination I had, exactly, but I wanna say I was worshipping Makh as a minotaur)

I then basically immediately died to a Pan Lord, but still!

[Micro102]

My current character has gotten disgustingly powerful...

+11 crystal plate mail with +Blink, +Fly, -9 MP, and +4 Str

Ring of Shoalin (+8 evasion)

+2 gloves of archery

+4 boots with rPois, rCorr, and -2 Str

Ring of rElec, rC+, Str+3, SInv

Various normal amulets

+2 Large shield of protection

+2 hat with rElec

Cloak of magic resistance

+6 holy scourge and +3 Eveningstar of electrocution, and +4 crossbow of velocity with a stockpile of all the good bolts

O, plus I have a manual of dodging.... This may be the first time I reach Zot.



Now, how good is 8 evasion? What would you trade it for?

[Arcvasti]

Now, how good is 8 evasion? What would you trade it for?

Not as good as resists. Maybe better then one pip. Definitely not better then two.

[heydude6]

This may be the first time I reach Zot.

I should warn you, Zot is no pushover. You'll have to be careful there and if the idea of fleeing ever crosses your mind, you probably should.