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[EnigmaticHat]

The only time I did Slime Pits I had Faerie Dragon Armor that randomly granted Clarity.  I guess that was lucky?

[Robsoie]

I'm not sure what is the problem with permanent allies in Crawl ?

In the case of large abominations that could be produced by Twisted Resurrection, they were far from invincible at all, especially as they are melee monsters, i remember at the time i was able to cast the spell, the large abominations were dying regularly, it was not like you could raise an unbeatable legion following you through floors with how few corpses are left behind by that point of the game.

Now for what is waiting for them to get to you before going to stairs, it's a non issue becuase of the Recall spell was about. If you played a summon-heavy build, you would learn Recall anyways for best use of your summon and undead in case you got a surprise trouble.

[EnigmaticHat]

Because if you want characters to feel unique you have to restrict who can get what powers.  Its why there's no magic that directly increases your stealth score or directly heals you.  Permanent allies are the domain of divine abilities, almost exclusively on gods that go well with melee characters.

[eeviac]

I think Crawl generally improves from version to version. Having played regularly since .10 trunk, I'm in the 'burned out, cut the crap' camp and am hoping the ID game and food clock get axed sooner or later.

[Arcvasti]

PTW, didn't know we had a thread on this. I've played quite a bit with this, and adore Felids[Even if they're hella impractical].

[Damiac]

It does still annoy me to see the devs making statements on the official forums that just don't jive with reality.

What do you mean by that? I don't actually go on the crawl forums but I curious to hear what they say.

I don't want to call anyone out, especially on a different forum where they can't even defend themselves, but just for an example, claiming that a certain item will handily kill a certain creature, when in fact if you try it in game it just doesn't work.  But these same people are the ones deciding what's too powerful and too weak, even though they don't seem to have a real understanding of these things.

It's minor, of course.  I still think dungeon crawl is the best roguelike by far, although I enjoy playing some of the other ones from time to time.

[Graven]

So after two weeks and at least 70 attempts, I have (almost) done it! Behold!

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1368-g6ab37f2 (tiles) character file.

Gravenous the Meteorologist (DsNe)                 Turns: 69466, Time: 02:24:23

Health: 210/210    AC: 45    Str: 29    XL:     27
Magic:  44/44      EV: 15    Int: 42    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   8954       SH:  0    Dex: 32    Spells: 9 memorised, 28 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .     R - +9 halberd (flame)
rCold  + + .     Clarity  .     f - +14 plate armour "Ykhlorgh" {rCorr Str+4 Dex-4}
rNeg   . . .     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  .         Gourm    .     Z - +3 helmet of Chimes {Dex+6}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     I - +1 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  +         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   +         Stasis   .     (no boots)
MR     +++..                    l - amulet of resist mutation
Stlth  ..........               s - ring of Broken Luck {rElec rC++ AC+3}
                                N - ring of wizardry

@: deflect missiles, very slow, extremely resistant to hostile enchantments,
extremely unstealthy
A: claws 3, molten scales 3, fire resistance 2, hurl hellfire, powered by pain
3, spiny 3, flame cloud immunity, MP-powered wands
a: Hellfire, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce
Religion
}: 4/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver


You are on level 5 of the Depths.
You worship Cheibriados.
Cheibriados is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 11 branches of the dungeon, and seen 60 of its levels.
You have also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Bailey, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You have collected 10248 gold pieces.
You have spent 1294 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 k - a +3 bardiche of freezing
 K - the +14 plutonium sword {*Contam Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 R - a +9 halberd of flaming (weapon)
Armour
 f - the +14 plate armour "Ykhlorgh" (worn) {rCorr Str+4 Dex-4}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (-4).
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
 g - the cursed +0 shield of Gavufong {rF+ rC+ Slay+3}
   (You took it off Asterion on level 3 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 E - the +0 cloak of Objectivity {Regen+ MP+9 Str-2 Int+7}
   (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your strength (-2).
   It affects your intelligence (+7).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 I - a +1 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 Z - the +3 helmet of Chimes (worn) {Dex+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
Magical staves
 O - an uncursed staff of energy
Jewellery
 l - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 s - the ring of Broken Luck (right claw) {rElec rC++ AC+3}
   (You took it off a deep elf high priest on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (+3).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 A - the ring "Vuyph" {rC+ MR+ SInv}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you see invisible.
 F - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 N - a ring of wizardry (left claw)
 Q - an uncursed amulet of clarity
Magical devices
 i - a wand of teleportation (5)
 v - a wand of heal wounds (7)
 z - a wand of teleportation (5)
 Y - a wand of digging (8)
Scrolls
 b - 9 scrolls of fog
 d - 26 scrolls of identify
 h - 35 scrolls of remove curse
 m - 6 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 10 scrolls of magic mapping
 u - 4 scrolls of fear
 G - 7 scrolls of enchant armour
 J - a scroll of blinking
 S - 3 scrolls of silence
 U - 5 scrolls of recharging
 X - 7 scrolls of amnesia
Potions
 a - 3 potions of cure mutation
 n - 10 potions of curing
 x - 5 potions of brilliance
 y - 2 potions of invisibility
 B - 5 potions of cancellation
 C - 7 potions of agility
 D - 5 potions of might
 H - 7 potions of flight
 M - a potion of heal wounds
 P - 3 potions of resistance
Books
 T - a Necronomicon {highlevel}   
   This book is beyond your current level of understanding.
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Haunt                        Necromancy/Summoning          7
    b - Borgnjor's Revivification    Necromancy                    8
    c - Death's Door                 Charms/Necromancy             8
    d - Necromutation                Transmutation/Necromancy      8
Miscellaneous
 j - a fan of gales
 L - a phial of floods
Comestibles
 c - 18 bread rations
 o - 26 fruits
 p - a chunk of flesh
 q - 10 meat rations
 w - 5 royal jellies
 W - 6 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 + Level 15.7 Fighting
 * Level 19.5 Polearms
 - Level 16.1 Armour
 - Level 7.3 Dodging
 - Level 4.0 Stealth
 - Level 17.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 4.2 Charms
 - Level 5.6 Necromancy
 O Level 27 Air Magic
 - Level 11.1 Invocations


You have 28 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Pain                  Necr           ####         1%          1    None
b - Vampiric Draining     Necr           ######....   1%          3    None
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ######....   1%          3    None
d - Apportation           Tloc           #####.....   1%          1    None
e - Airstrike             Air            ########..   0%          4    None
f - Tornado               Air            ########..   4%          9    #####..
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       0%          2    None
h - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ########..   1%          6    None
v - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ######..     3%          3    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (8/8) D:9
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:4        Snake (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (6/6) Lair:8
    Orc (4/4) D:11            Elf (3/3) Orc:3        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (0/3) Vaults:2     Depths (5/5) D:15            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:11 }   D:13 *   Orc:4 }[*!   Elf:2 %   Elf:3 :   Vaults:3 (   Vaults:4 (   Depths:5 [

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Orc:4 Depths:1 Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
Snake:2 Vashnia
Snake:3 exclusion: oklob plant
Depths:1 exclusion: orange crystal statue
Depths:3 Boris


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have claws for hands.
You are completely covered in molten scales (AC +4, EV -1, rF+).
Your flesh is very heat resistant.
You can hurl blasts of hellfire.
You are powered by pain.
You are completely covered in sharp spines.
You are immune to clouds of flame.
You expend magic power (3 MP) to strengthen your wands.

A melee hybrid necromancer of Chei casting Tornado in a +14 Plate armour!

It's a new race/god/class combo for me, and by god is it miserable. Chei is miserable, Necromancer is miserable (because I hate summons), hybrids are miserable, everything is miserable.

My strategy was to just keep dying until the game gave up and threw nice items at me tocarry me at least until 2 runes. My previous attempts universally died either pre-lair, or right about Depths.

I have no idea why I decided I wanted to win a melee/offensive caster hybrid of Chei, but after dying a few tens of times, I felt it was my destiny to do it.

Problem is I currently have Tornado castable with pretty decent melee capabilities, and am out of things to do. I'm not quite sure I want to run extended with Chei and no torment resistance, but I really don't want to just get a 4-rune win. And something tells me the abyss is not the best place for my trudging ass.

[heydude6]

Have you ever gotten a 3 rune win yet? Also, yes don't go to the abyss. Without the ability to run away from the demons there, it's almost like going to hell.

[Graven]

Have you ever gotten a 3 rune win yet? Also, yes don't go to the abyss. Without the ability to run away from the demons there, it's almost like going to hell.

Nah, don't have a 3-rune win yet.

And yeah, I keep hearing the abyss is easy and stuff and I go there right after Zot and whoa baby. But I think I'll go bash some skeletons in the crypt and then pop around the Abyss. Main thing is, Pan is a lot more chill - dudes keep flooding into the Abyss. Weaker dudes, sure, but there's the occasional hell sentinel or whatever they're called now.

edit : Well fuck me.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-1368-g6ab37f2 (tiles) character file.

909870 Gravenous the Meteorologist (level 27, -24/210 HPs)
             Began as a Demonspawn Necromancer on June 27, 2015.
             Was the Champion of Cheibriados.
             Killed from afar by a Brimstone Fiend (53 damage)
             ... with a blast of hellfire
             ... in Pandemonium.
             The game lasted 03:16:20 (88337 turns).

Gravenous the Meteorologist (DsNe)                 Turns: 88337, Time: 03:16:20

Health: -24/210    AC: 51    Str: 29    XL:     27
Magic:  32/44      EV: 21    Int: 42    God:    Cheibriados [******]
Gold:   11054      SH:  0    Dex: 37    Spells: 13 memorised, 2 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis .     R - +9 halberd (flame)
rCold  + + +     Clarity  .     f - +14 plate armour "Ykhlorgh" {rCorr Str+4 Dex-4}
rNeg   + + +     SustAt   .     (no shield)
rPois  8         Gourm    .     Z - +3 helmet of Chimes {Dex+6}
rElec  +         Spirit   .     I - +1 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  +         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   +         Stasis   .     (no boots)
MR     ++++.                    l - amulet of resist mutation
Stlth  +.........               s - ring of Broken Luck {rElec rC++ AC+3}
                                N - ring of wizardry

@: agile, lethally poisoned (-24 -> -24), lich-form, very slow, incredibly
resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: claws 3, molten scales 3, fire resistance 1, hurl hellfire, powered by pain
3, spiny 3, flame cloud immunity
a: Hellfire, End Transformation, Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step
From Time, Renounce Religion
}: 6/15 runes: decaying, serpentine, slimy, silver, abyssal, demonic


You were in Pandemonium.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You were a lich.

You visited 13 branches of the dungeon, and saw 64 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 3 times, and saw 10 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Labyrinth, Trove, Bailey, Ice Cave and Volcano.

You collected 12348 gold pieces.
You spent 1294 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 k - a +8 bardiche of freezing
 K - the +14 plutonium sword {*Contam Stlth-}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Vaults)   
   
   It causes magical contamination when unequipped.
   It makes you less stealthy.
 R - a +9 halberd of flaming (weapon)
 V - a +4 vampiric demon trident
Armour
 e - the +1 troll leather armour of the Buccaneer {rElec rN++ Regen+ Int+4}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It greatly protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 f - the +14 plate armour "Ykhlorgh" (worn) {rCorr Str+4 Dex-4}
   (You found it on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (-4).
   It protects you from acid and corrosion.
 g - the cursed +0 shield of Gavufong {rF+ rC+ Slay+3}
   (You took it off Asterion on level 3 of the Snake Pit)   
   
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+3).
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 p - the +0 cloak of Zin's Whim {rC- MP+9 Int+3 Slay+2}
   (You found it in Pandemonium)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your accuracy and damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks
   (+2).
   It makes you vulnerable to cold.
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
 E - the +0 cloak of Objectivity {Regen+ MP+9 Str-2 Int+7}
   (You acquired it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   It affects your strength (-2).
   It affects your intelligence (+7).
   It affects your magic capacity (+9).
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
 I - a +1 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 Z - the +3 helmet of Chimes (worn) {Dex+6}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+6).
Magical staves
 O - an uncursed staff of energy
Jewellery
 l - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 s - the ring of Broken Luck (right claw) {rElec rC++ AC+3}
   (You took it off a deep elf high priest on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   
   It affects your AC (+3).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
 A - the ring "Vuyph" {rC+ MR+ SInv}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you see invisible.
 F - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 N - a ring of wizardry (left claw)
 Q - an uncursed amulet of clarity
Magical devices
 i - a wand of teleportation (5)
 t - a wand of teleportation (6)
 v - a wand of heal wounds (4)
 z - a wand of teleportation (5)
 Y - a wand of digging (8)
Scrolls
 b - 9 scrolls of fog
 d - 29 scrolls of identify
 h - 40 scrolls of remove curse
 m - 13 scrolls of teleportation
 r - 10 scrolls of magic mapping
 u - 5 scrolls of fear
 G - 10 scrolls of enchant armour
 S - 3 scrolls of silence
 U - 4 scrolls of recharging
 X - 14 scrolls of amnesia
Potions
 a - 2 potions of cure mutation
 n - 13 potions of curing
 x - 5 potions of brilliance
 B - 5 potions of cancellation
 C - 8 potions of agility
 D - 8 potions of might
 H - 8 potions of flight
 P - 3 potions of resistance
Books
 T - a Necronomicon {highlevel}   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Haunt                        Necromancy/Summoning          7
    b - Borgnjor's Revivification    Necromancy                    8
    c - Death's Door                 Charms/Necromancy             8
    d - Necromutation                Transmutation/Necromancy      8
Miscellaneous
 j - a fan of gales
 L - a phial of floods
 M - the horn of Geryon
Comestibles
 c - 19 bread rations
 o - 30 fruits
 q - 9 meat rations
 w - 4 royal jellies
 W - 7 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 - Level 15.8 Fighting
 * Level 24.9 Polearms
 - Level 16.1 Armour
 - Level 7.3 Dodging
 - Level 4.0 Stealth
 - Level 17.1 Spellcasting
 - Level 4.2 Charms
 - Level 21.0 Necromancy
 - Level 18.6 Transmutations
 O Level 27 Air Magic
 - Level 11.1 Invocations


You had 2 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Pain                  Necr           ####         0%          1    N/A
b - Vampiric Draining     Necr           ########..   0%          3    N/A
c - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ########..   1%          3    N/A
d - Apportation           Tloc           #####.....   1%          1    N/A
e - Airstrike             Air            ########..   0%          4    N/A
f - Tornado               Air            ########..   4%          9    N/A
g - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       0%          2    N/A
h - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ########..   1%          6    N/A
i - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ########..   0%          2    N/A
j - Borgnjor's Revivific  Necr           ########..   2%          8    N/A
k - Death's Door          Chrm/Necr      ########..   80%         8    N/A
l - Necromutation         Trmt/Necr      ########..   4%          8    N/A
v - Spectral Weapon       Hex/Chrm       ######..     3%          3    N/A


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:5            Lair (8/8) D:9
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:4        Snake (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (6/6) Lair:8
    Orc (4/4) D:11            Elf (3/3) Orc:3        Vaults (5/5) D:13
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (0/7) Hell            Geh (0/7) Hell
    Coc (0/7) Hell            Tar (0/7) Hell            Zot (5/5) Depths:5

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Trog
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:11 }   D:13 *   Orc:4 }[*!   Elf:2 %   Elf:3 :   Vaults:3 (   Vaults:4 (   Depths:5 [

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4 Depths:5
Pandemonium: Orc:4 Depths:1 Depths:3 Depths:4
Ziggurat: Depths:2

Annotations:
Snake:2 Vashnia
Snake:3 exclusion: oklob plant
Depths:1 exclusion: orange crystal statue
Depths:3 Boris


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have claws for hands.
You are completely covered in molten scales (AC +4, EV -1, rF+).
Your flesh is heat resistant.
You can hurl blasts of hellfire.
You are powered by pain.
You are completely covered in sharp spines.
You are immune to clouds of flame.
Misclicked and ate 300 000 hellfires from a Brimstone Fiend while ponderously shambling to the next tile.

SO CLOSE

Thing is, even with what's probably the best armour I'll be able to have on a character like this, I still ate a ton of damage. If I went Lichform, it was hellfire. If I didn't, it was torment. If it was neither, it was just dudes with sticks poking me through what should've been a fortress wall of steel. Something, somewhere, went wrong. I have (or had, depends on how messed up my laptop harddrive turns out to be) a Naga-something of Ash, which was basically the same deal - slither slowly and tornado stuff to death, but felt a ton more indestructible. This guy on the other hand, was just bleh. Probably should've bailed after getting the generic Pan rune - I should've figured I was too weak to go for such a high-risk end-game.

Man, I remember when I had fun in Crawl. With my Gargoyles of Zin. Why do I feel the need to play characters that are not easy

[heydude6]

I remember reading about this guy who played a high elf conjurer (old conjurer, though), he had never won a 3 rune victory before but with that character he ended up getting 14 runes before dying to deep dwarfs of Yred (damage reflection) in a Ziggurat.

My point is this, no matter how capable your character seems to be, try to make your first victory a 3 rune before trying the extended endgame. There's bound to be some detail that you aren't aware of that could end your run immediately. The Realm of Zot itself is quite a challenge on it's own so try to figure it out before you try to figure out the hells.

[Graven]

I remember reading about this guy who played a high elf conjurer (old conjurer, though), he had never won a 3 rune victory before but with that character he ended up getting 14 runes before dying to deep dwarfs of Yred (damage reflection) in a Ziggurat.

My point is this, no matter how capable your character seems to be, try to make your first victory a 3 rune before trying the extended endgame. There's bound to be some detail that you aren't aware of that could end your run immediately. The Realm of Zot itself is quite a challenge on it's own so try to figure it out before you try to figure out the hells.

I think you misunderstood me

I don't have a 3-rune victory, and never plan to have one. I do have six or so 15-rune wins and five more 4 to 5 rune wins. The majority have just been with easier gods, because I tend to play Crawl as a hack-n-slash after a certain point, and gods that give me a higher margin of error lend themselves better to my, admittedly quite wrong, playstyle.

I'm relatively sure I know what I did wrong - I should've had controlled blink considering I was moving at the pace of the Great Pyramid, should've gotten my weapon skill higher to use a better weapon, should've used Necromutation a lot more at the start of my Pan oddysey, probably could've used a bit more stealth too... Not quite sure about the skill distribution. Maybe a Fire Dragon armour and lower spellcasting skills which would let me spread out a ton more would be more profitable? Bleh.

I'm debating whether to go another Chei-cromancer or just go for broke and win a HOAs of Ru, since that would be a new combo for me as well. Not quite sure how Ru handles extended, and I have a bit of trouble staying away from extended, it seems.

[EnigmaticHat]

Was going to suggest "don't worship that god", but you apparently knew what you were getting into.  Masochist

[debvon]

Not quite sure how Ru handles extended...

APOCALYPSE

[Robsoie]

My memory is a bit blurry as it's been years i have not used Chei , but isn't that the guy that slow you down so much that the whole game is about "you must not move" when an enemy appears onscreen, as if you move, you basically give several free turns/attacks to those enemies (and so many more opportunities for the monsters to kill your character before you can do anything else) ?

[flame99]

Yeah, kinda. DCSS: Weeping Angel mode, basically.