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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 1683414 times)

Moron

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12705 on: September 17, 2014, 03:42:46 pm »

I can't help noticing that in the latest tournament the total percentage of games won was 1.71%, compared to 1.31% in the previous tournament.

I wonder if this is a significant indicator that the game has become easier (it certainly feels easier,) and if so, how much is due to the removal of scroll/potion destruction.

I can see some major nerfing happening in 0.16...
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12706 on: September 17, 2014, 04:32:52 pm »

I heard a new god, Ru, is in trunk. Apparently you gain piety by sacrificing parts of yourself (e.g sacrificing your arm, magical capability, sanity, etc). Seems pretty fun. Anyone try him?
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Robsoie

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12707 on: September 17, 2014, 04:48:51 pm »

I can't help noticing that in the latest tournament the total percentage of games won was 1.71%, compared to 1.31% in the previous tournament.

I wonder if this is a significant indicator that the game has become easier (it certainly feels easier,) and if so, how much is due to the removal of scroll/potion destruction.

I can see some major nerfing happening in 0.16...

In the same time there's these stats too :
Players who got a rune: 743 (787)
Players with at least one game to reach XL 9: 1527 (1589)

Could it hint that the early game (up to rune branches) is actually harder, and from the increase of wins, the last part of the game is easier.

But that said harder/easier does not mean much actually, it depends on how crawl-experienced all the people on the tourney are, and how much people that regularly win crawl out of the tourney time have been participating in comparison to previous tourneys
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Moron

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12708 on: September 17, 2014, 05:53:40 pm »

I haven't looked into the details of how many people got runes etc, but I have looked at the results for some of the previous tournaments, and the win % has increased every time from at least 0.10.

Not sure if this is due to the game getting easier or people just getting better at it.
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lemon10

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12709 on: September 17, 2014, 08:58:21 pm »

Whelp, just got my first melee win, and a 15 runer too as a GaFi.

Qazlal is pretty cool, and he gave me enough destructive power to clear large groups when I needed it. Getting a focused disaster area off and wiping a huge group of nasty enemies felt pretty good.
Gargoyles are pretty absurd. They have a ton of perks rElec, poison immunity (which is way better then simple poison resistance), torment resistance, permanent flying (which makes water and lava non-issues), huge passive armor buff, rN+, and very little downsides (lackluster apps and a slight penalty to HP). The perks help at every stage from start to end, and far outweigh the penalties. The race really feels super strong to me.
The lack of item destruction really changed the feel. I ran out of any of the scrolls/potions I needed (nor even got remotely close to running out of any of them at any point), whereas before you had to only have a few of any type you at once to stop them from all burning/shattering. And even with that your supplies were limited as your scrolls could burn up without you using them.

I got rF+++, rC+++, rN+++ in the vaults, and after that I was pretty safe. There were some spooky situations, but with liberal use of wands of healing and qazlal powers I managed to survive them all without a real chance of death.

I think I played pretty well, with only a few major mistakes, luckily none of them were lethal, and I was far more cautious then in my previous games which allowed me to win.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not in my inventory: The ~10 evokables that I dropped in zig 26 for inventory management and forgot to pick back up.
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Dr Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12710 on: September 18, 2014, 07:41:46 am »

I heard a new god, Ru, is in trunk. Apparently you gain piety by sacrificing parts of yourself (e.g sacrificing your arm, magical capability, sanity, etc). Seems pretty fun. Anyone try him?

Yeah, I'm currently playing a OgHu of Ru. After exploring for awhile you get a list of 3 sacrifices and you have to choose one. The more significant the sacrifice the more piety you gain. You get offered sacrifices regularly. The first ability is a passive power aura that inflicts random status effects on enemies (usually blindness or stun). Then, it starts inflicting status effects on those who attack you (paralysis, stun, corona, and such). And sometimes it causes an enemy to attack itself.

Ru's usable abilities don't cost piety, but they leave you exhausted and drained.

Code: [Select]
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-621-gdc21f72 (tiles) character file.

DrFeelgood the Fighter (Ogre Hunter)               Turns: 19546, Time: 02:01:55

HP 139/139       AC  6     Str 20 (21) XL: 12   Next: 98%
MP  28/28        EV  9     Int  9      God: Ru [******]
Gold 686         SH  0     Dex 13      Spells:  9 memorised, 10 levels left

rFire  + + +     SeeInvis .     v - +6 great mace of False Accusations {freeze, rPois rF+ Dex+3}
rCold  . . .     Clarity  +     M - +0 troll leather armour
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     (shield restricted)
rPois  +         rRot     .     a - +1 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     B - +0 cloak
SustAb .         Warding  .     (gloves unavailable)
rMut   .         Stasis   .     (boots unavailable)
Gourm  .                        s - amulet of clarity
MR     +....                    E - ring of positive energy
                                p - ring of protection from fire

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, antennae 1, beak, deterioration 1, dopey 2, fire resistance
1, screaming 1, shaggy fur 1, tough skin 1, no stealth, inability to use
devices, hated by all, inability to train dodging, vulnerability to harm 1
a: Draw Out Power, Power Leap, Cataclysm, Renounce Religion

Sacrifices: deterioration 1, dopey 1, screaming 1, no stealth, inability to use devices, hated by all, inability to train dodging, vulnerability to harm 1

Edit:

'Cataclysm' is basically Slouch, but it leaves the survivors crippled (paralyzed, muted, etc.). 'Power Leap' is an aoe jump attack. And 'Draw Out Power' restores HP & MP. Ru is pretty strong. Seems like a good choice for stabbers and melee characters.

Quote
Rupert hits you with a runed Claymore!!
Rupert is paralyzed in retribution by your aura!
The helpless Rupert fails to defend himself.
You hammer Rupert like a gong!!!! You freeze Rupert!
You kill Rupert!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:46:00 am by Dr Feelgood »
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vogonpoet

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12711 on: September 18, 2014, 03:42:43 pm »

So, after an OK tourney by my own sad standards, I am back to trying to broaden my win scope beyond Okie, Veh, and Ash.
I feel bad about never having won with Trog, and never even getting a rune with Mahkleb, etc.

So currently I am looking for some DDEE of Mahkleb advice. It feels like time to start training a weapon, at least a little bit:  I have not been very lucky with books, previous failed DDEEs have had mana issues, and I have found a couple of ok weapons. I have no weapon skill, a basically irrelevant amount of sheild skill, and dont know whether to train axes, maces or polearms, although I am leaning towards maces. I really have no idea which of my weapons will be most effective at 5-10 skill (probably all I can afford right now, unless I dont find some more spells soon)?

I should also probably get Invo to what, 15 or so, if I want to use some servants without too much fear?

Code: [Select]
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.16-a0-623-g20b2139 (console) character file.

vogonpoet the Geomancer (DDEE)                     Turns: 18681, Time: 02:34:03

HP 117/117       AC 19     Str 12      XL: 13   Next: 37%
MP  29/30        EV  9     Int 21      God: Makhleb [******]
Gold 666         SH  4     Dex 10      Spells:  7 memorised,  8 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     e - +2 demon whip (freeze)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     N - +3 ring mail of Devotion {rF+ Dex-3}
rNeg   + . .     rCorr    .     J - +0 buckler
rPois  .         rRot     .     r - +2 helmet
rElec  .         Spirit   .     h - +1 cloak {MR+}
SustAb .         Warding  +     X - +0 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Stasis   .     B - +0 pair of boots
Gourm  .                        A - amulet of warding
MR     ++...                    Z - ring of flight
                                I - ring of protection from cold

@: non-regenerating, very resistant to hostile enchantments, very unstealthy
A: damage resistance, recharge devices, sense surroundings 2, slow healing 3
a: Device Recharging, Minor Destruction, Lesser Servant of Makhleb, Major
Destruction, Greater Servant of Makhleb, Renounce Religion, Evoke Flight


You are on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Makhleb.
Makhleb is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 17 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer and Ice Cave.

Hand weapons
 e - a +2 demon whip of freezing (weapon)
 m - a battleaxe of freezing
 n - a +0 demon trident of electrocution
 x - a +3 whip of electrocution
 F - a runed hunting sling
 S - a +0 blowgun
Missiles
 b - 80 stones
 i - 21 curare-tipped needles
 y - 6 javelins (quivered)
 H - 66 poisoned needles
Armour
 h - a +1 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 r - a +2 helmet (worn)
 u - a +1 cloak of poison resistance
 B - a +0 pair of boots (worn)
 J - a +0 buckler (worn)
 N - the +3 ring mail of Devotion (worn) {rF+ Dex-3}
   (You found it on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (-3).
   It protects you from fire.
 O - the +2 ring mail "Weonecs" {rPois rC+ SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
   It enhances your eyesight.
 X - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
Magical devices
 a - a wand of heal wounds (6)
 c - a wand of draining {zapped: 4}
 P - a wand of invisibility {zapped: 1}
 T - a wand of teleportation {zapped: 1}
 W - a wand of fire {zapped: 2}
Comestibles
 o - 3 meat rations
 C - 2 bread rations
Scrolls
 g - 4 scrolls of remove curse
 q - 2 scrolls of fog
 z - 9 scrolls of teleportation
 K - a scroll of fear
 Q - a scroll of blinking
Jewellery
 A - an amulet of warding (around neck)
 E - an uncursed ring of poison resistance
 I - a ring of protection from cold (left hand)
 U - an uncursed ring of positive energy
 Z - a ring of flight (right hand)
Potions
 f - a potion of agility
 j - a potion of restore abilities
 k - a potion of haste
 l - a potion of curing
 p - 3 potions of might
 v - 4 potions of brilliance
 w - a blue potion
 D - a potion of magic
 G - 6 potions of heal wounds
 L - a slimy blue potion
 M - 2 potions of flight

My character dump in its entirety is here.

Anyone got any tips?
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Retropunch

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12712 on: September 18, 2014, 03:51:59 pm »

So currently I am looking for some DDEE of Mahkleb advice. It feels like time to start training a weapon, at least a little bit:  I have not been very lucky with books, previous failed DDEEs have had mana issues, and I have found a couple of ok weapons. I have no weapon skill, a basically irrelevant amount of sheild skill, and dont know whether to train axes, maces or polearms, although I am leaning towards maces. I really have no idea which of my weapons will be most effective at 5-10 skill (probably all I can afford right now, unless I dont find some more spells soon)?

I should also probably get Invo to what, 15 or so, if I want to use some servants without too much fear?

Anyone got any tips?

I'd train M&F up as you've got a good demon whip. With spellcasters who I want to do a bit of melee, I always wait until I find a good rand/art and then stick with that as long as they have decent enough attributes. I normally only put 5 or so levels into it until later later on. While you probably won't be using it to take down the big nasties, a DDEE can be a powerhouse of melee though due to dmg shaving, ok attributes and the Earth spells, so it's worth getting started on melee. However, if you find a good polearm they're much more useful with summons, as you can add a significant amount of extra damage whilst hiding behind a summon.

Invo needs to be around 15 yeah. Just remember that you want to be summoning BEFORE trouble! Always have a ready escape plan, and learn abjuration as soon as you can.
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vogonpoet

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12713 on: September 18, 2014, 04:02:50 pm »

you've got a good demon whip ... However, if you find a good polearm ...

I have a demon whip and a demon trident. Surely the demon trident qualifies as a good polearm? Thats why I feel like I have a dilema. I don't really have a great axe, but I am a DD, and feel bad for not taking axes, for reasons.
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Dr Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12714 on: September 18, 2014, 05:11:26 pm »

Anyone got any tips?

Raise Inv and M&F to 12.

Edit:

Surely the demon trident qualifies as a good polearm?

A demon trident of elec is a good weapon. My CeDK recently won with one. Raise Polearms to 14 if you want to use it.

If you find and want to use a staff of earth, then raise staves to 12, Evo to 14, and Earth as high as you can.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 05:21:17 pm by Dr Feelgood »
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monk12

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12715 on: September 18, 2014, 08:20:30 pm »

you've got a good demon whip ... However, if you find a good polearm ...

I have a demon whip and a demon trident. Surely the demon trident qualifies as a good polearm? Thats why I feel like I have a dilema. I don't really have a great axe, but I am a DD, and feel bad for not taking axes, for reasons.

The demon trident is very good, particularly with that electric brand on it. It'll require more skill investment to be worth it, however; ~6 skill to get it down to a 1 turn attack, and as others have mentioned 14 for mindelay. The whip requires way less skill investment (paltry 2 skill for a 1 turn attack, and a mindelay of 5 at 12 is just beastly) but obviously has a bit lower base damage and a worse brand. If you're only going for 10 levels of skill, take the whip and hope for a scroll of brand weapon or something. If you think you'll get to 14 someday, go with the polearm. If it was me, I think I'd just take the whip since it looks like you still rely on magic for your damage output; your melee weapon really only needs to be able to do cleanup duty, not take on big mons all by itself.

DJ

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12716 on: September 19, 2014, 11:16:46 am »

So once again I reached the point where I usually die. I've cleared Lair and Orc, and I can't decide where to go next. My options are Swamp, Spider, Elf, Slime, Vaults, Depths or Hell (yeah right, as if that's a real option). Last time around I opted for spider, and it went well, but then I ran into a Zot trap and got banished to Abyss where I eventually died because there is no such thing as an exit from there. I was doing quite well with Shadow Creatures for a while, though, it gives you some truly crazy summons in Abyss. This time I don't have Shadow Creatures, instead I have some pretty loud spells so I reckon I'd die really fast if I got banished. Are any of the branches I have available safe banishment-wise? Also, any advice on what to train? Currently I'm planning to push Staves to 12 and then go Air until I can cast Tornado.
char dump:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Rex_Nex

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12717 on: September 19, 2014, 11:20:49 am »

Swamp is one of the easier branches. Outside of uniques, I dont think anything can banish you there. rPois (and Clarity) would be nice. Spider is a lot harder than Swamp.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 11:28:56 am by Rex_Nex »
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Retropunch

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12718 on: September 19, 2014, 11:55:03 am »

Spider is hellish, especially for a caster as stuff can get to you quickly. I wouldn't bother with it unless you really want to go for all the runes.

I'd just dip into a few. I usually do the first few levels of swamp once I've got rpois, the first few Elf once I've got deflect/repel missiles and see invisible. The first level/s of vaults are easy enough if you're very careful and lure things back to some stairs. The worst thing about that is getting sealed in a room by convokers (or is it the other one?), as for a caster that can be certain death.

I have to say, this is the point in the game where I usually use a lot of my consumables and just take my time as much as possible - it's always fine to run away!

However, as far as concrete advice, go for swamp and tank your air up. I wouldn't bother too much with staves really, you'll never really be dual classing.
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Dr Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #12719 on: September 19, 2014, 12:37:46 pm »

So once again I reached the point where I usually die. I've cleared Lair and Orc, and I can't decide where to go next. My options are Swamp, Spider, Elf, Slime, Vaults, Depths or Hell (yeah right, as if that's a real option). Last time around I opted for spider, and it went well, but then I ran into a Zot trap and got banished to Abyss where I eventually died because there is no such thing as an exit from there. I was doing quite well with Shadow Creatures for a while, though, it gives you some truly crazy summons in Abyss. This time I don't have Shadow Creatures, instead I have some pretty loud spells so I reckon I'd die really fast if I got banished. Are any of the branches I have available safe banishment-wise? Also, any advice on what to train? Currently I'm planning to push Staves to 12 and then go Air until I can cast Tornado.

Raise Evo to 14 for the staff of air. I'd raise Stealth to 8-10 on any character forgoing heavy armor. Raise Fighting for more HP. Swamp is the easiest rune branch, followed by Spider.

I wouldn't bother too much with staves really, you'll never really be dual classing.

Playing a 'pure' caster is tedious.
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