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[Elephant Parade]

Yeah you can rattle off benefits for Gargoyles all day, but if you stop and think they're not actually that important.  There's only a couple of enemies that use noxious gases (mainly just Swamp Drakes, which only appear half the time) or electricity (storm dragons and electric golems, plus Nikola I guess), it's hardly a major factor.

Electric eels use electricity.

[Leafsnail]

They are also not dangerous because they cannot chase you.

e: maybe sky beasts would qualify?  I've never had any real problem with them though.

[Elephant Parade]

They are also not dangerous because they cannot chase you.

e: maybe sky beasts would qualify?  I've never had any real problem with them though.

They can prevent you from getting loot, though. Also, new players might charge them instead.

[Kagus]

Also helps out against sudden death thanks to kobolds on D:1 with daggers of electrocution that suddenly proc for all of your health on the first strike.  Admittedly rather situational, but god damn those buggers are annoying...


But yeah, gargs can self-target mephitic cloud to help with sticky situations, and then you can also walk through your own corpse rot.

The only Gargoyle resist that could possibly matter to a beginner is rPois, and I don't think that's much of a game changer (particularly now it's been nerfed).  AC is nice, of course, but I think having enough HP to not get shot down in two hits from some magic-using enemy is better.

Worth noting that it's not actually rPois, it's poison immunity; making gargoyles the only non-undead race that is completely immune to poison.  I don't think even venom bolts or whatever it is that pierces rPois can do any damage to you, but I haven't tested that out just yet...

Anyone tested to see if Qazlal grants immunity to immolation scroll explosions?  I think it's mainly just a cloud effect there, so all depending on what it considers "ownership" you may be able to get away with point-blank booms of that sort.

[Leafsnail]

P arrow hits for 30% damage against everyone (even demons and the undead), but yeah I guess you resist the rest of it.

[BaronMunchausen]

Yeah you can rattle off benefits for Gargoyles all day, but if you stop and think they're not actually that important.  There's only a couple of enemies that use noxious gases (mainly just Swamp Drakes, which only appear half the time) or electricity (storm dragons and electric golems, plus Nikola I guess), it's hardly a major factor.

Electric eels use electricity.

And raijus, and shock serpents, and titans, and sky beasts . . . plus monsters with electric weapons and wands . . .
Not to mention, rElec significantly boosts the utility of various player spells (chiefly ball lightning/chain lightning, of course gargoyles probably don't use those a lot due to unimpressive Air apts) and items like the disc of storms.
rElec is nowhere near as vital as rF, but it should not be compared to rot/miasma/noxious gas immunity (which I agree is pretty useless since those are rare effects and seldom dangerous).

[Rex_Nex]

Electric Eel immunity is pretty important. Otherwise, no, there are not many creatures with electric branded attacks. More importantly, however, the creatures who do have them tend to be pretty dangerous. Outside of sky beasts, most of them are capable of ending a character that doesn't have rElec. Nikola, Eels, and Golems are some of the most dangerous opponents where they spawn. (also "eels are not dangerous because they cant chase you" is rather silly because they destroy characters all the time regardless of how well proper play might counter them.)

And yes, rPois was nerfed, but Garg doesn't have rPois, which just makes immunity all the more attractive.

Deep Dwarves have all that HP, which is always nice, and they definitely have an easier start due to HW, aptitudes, and damage shaving - but Gargs aren't too far behind. As the game progresses they start really picking up the slack - damage shaving becomes much less effective than the AC, the poorer aptitudes matter less as important skills start to max out, the resists become noticeable starting in lair, and the torment resist is always good near the endgame (should you want to do that). By Lair, I'd probably feel more comfortable winning in a Gr than a DD.

That's not to say DD isn't easymode, it's just that Gr also is easymode.

[Elephant Parade]

Wow. My GaFi has found two artifacts, and it's only Dungeon:4.

Too bad both of them are useless. One granted RPoison (usless), and the other granted  RCorrosion (mostly useless) and Stealth++ (useless, since I'm playing a heavy armour character).

Edit: And dead. Can't say I've ever seen Prince Ribbit on Dungeon:5 before.

[Eurynomos]

Not sure if this has been addressed before, but what exactly does Strength and Dexterity do? Because I'm always confused about what exactly to get on non-caster/assassin characters. Asking because I have a MiGl with a vamp executioner axe.

[Rex_Nex]

Str increases damage, slightly increases accuracy, and slightly reduces the penalties to casting, stealth, and EV for armor.

Dex increases accuracy and EV, while slightly increasing stealth, damage, and the chance you'll deal aux. attacks (like headbutting with horns etc.).

Dex is always better for a lighter armored melee char, while I think Str slightly edges out Dex if you're wearing Plate or heavier. Int is better than both if you're ever going to cast. If you're looking at it purely in terms of what to spend your 3rd level stat upgrades on, it's almost irrelevant. The difference between ~6 Dex and ~6 Str (how much you'll get if you live until XL18) is not noticeable. If you start stacking stats with gear, you might notice.

[Eurynomos]

Str increases damage, slightly increases accuracy, and slightly reduces the penalties to casting, stealth, and EV for armor.

Dex increases accuracy and EV, while slightly increasing stealth, damage, and the chance you'll deal aux. attacks (like headbutting with horns etc.).

Dex is always better for a lighter armored melee char, while I think Str slightly edges out Dex if you're wearing Plate or heavier. Int is better than both if you're ever going to cast. If you're looking at it purely in terms of what to spend your 3rd level stat upgrades on, it's almost irrelevant. The difference between ~6 Dex and ~6 Str (how much you'll get if you live until XL18) is not noticeable. If you start stacking stats with gear, you might notice.

Well, Str it is then, because I plan on wearing heavy armor for the extended endgame. Also I regret choosing gladiator instead of fighter, because Okawaru seems to love giving me javelins and tomahawks I don't want to use.

[Rex_Nex]

AFAIK (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) Okawaru and Trog will now gift ammo on a separate timer than other items, so I don't think you miss out on, say, a weapon gift just because you got some javelins or arrows. I remember hearing that, at least.

[tompliss]

I remember hearing that, at least.

Am not totally sure.
It's from the wiki, which may not be as sure as diving in the source, but here it is :

It begins the turn you receive a gift, and decreases every time you gain piety (this piety is only applied toward ending the gift timeout)

I read that as "piety goes in your gift timer instead of real piety stack", which means you "lose" piety each time you get a gift (because you'll miss some piety to feed the timer).

On the other hand, even with low skill, tomahawk and Javelins are good, especially when branded

[Eurynomos]

I remember hearing that, at least.

Am not totally sure.
It's from the wiki, which may not be as sure as diving in the source, but here it is :

It begins the turn you receive a gift, and decreases every time you gain piety (this piety is only applied toward ending the gift timeout)

I read that as "piety goes in your gift timer instead of real piety stack", which means you "lose" piety each time you get a gift (because you'll miss some piety to feed the timer).

On the other hand, even with low skill, tomahawk and Javelins are good, especially when branded

Well I was actually hoping he would gift me a flaming axe of some sort for the hydras I keep running into, but the Javelins he's given me may be useful for that, though I do think I will have to invest a little more than I'd like into Throwing. Do tomahawks sever hydra heads?

[tompliss]

I don't think so. And there is nothing about that in Hydra's article (nor in Tomahauk's) in the wiki.