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[lemon10]

Meh, I can't actually seem to ever get to Lair. I always die to SOMETHING. Orc priests, a random troll, etc. I usually don't even reach the Temple...

Also, if there is a chance that something can kill you, then run away and go somwhere else. Even if that chance is tiny, its still better to be safe then sorry. This usually includes some uniques (eg. Sigmund, Grinder) and some other tougher monsters (eg. Orc Priests (especially with a pack)/Ogres). Now, if you know you can take one, then go for it. But even a 5% chance of death done multiple times per level is going to kill you awfully fast.

[Grek]

To put it in perspective: If we assume that there are an average of 2 hard fights per floor, and a hard fight has an average of a 5% chance of killing you if you don't run away from it, then a character who does not run from hard fights has a 1-0.95^104 = 99.517% chance of dying to a fight they should have run away from on their way to getting a three rune ascension.

[Moron]

On the other hand, if you run away from too many fights, you miss out on XP and possibly items, and end up under-levelled. Resulting in more and more of the monsters at your current depth being dangerous, and eventually all the fights are hard fights.

[tilkau]

On the other hand, if you run away from too many fights, you miss out on XP and possibly items, and end up under-levelled. Resulting in more and more of the monsters at your current depth being dangerous, and eventually all the fights are hard fights.

You can do that. Or you can keep track of your progress and mop up as you go. The food clock is not tight enough for this to create a problem, for most characters.

[miauw62]

Mhm, now I just got into Lair again with a pretty good weapon. Guess I'll just need to run even more. (And I haven't died to Sigmund a single time while playing online, btw).

Most times it's just that I end up in a bad battle with no way out. Especially for orc priests, since they will still smite you even if you run away. I'll try to post a morgue next time I die in a dumb way.

[Robsoie]

Wow, got the most ridiculous "crawl wants your character to die" situation with a draconian transmuter.
It's very early game, so at that point the best thing my guy could do is use stick to snakes with only 6 mana it meant 3 attempts (and with 17% of failure, not as negligible as it seems because in reality those 17% were closer to 50% because the spell failed convenientely half of the time) and try to punch weakly things (worked nice so far as he punched everything to death)

I was on a floor i had cleared, i then obviously go down.

Purgy is there near the stairs.
At that point, Purgy is unbeatable by my character : i miss all my strikes, and Purgy one shot all my snakes and highly damage me at each strikes
So i dance around walls for a long while, until finally i can get 1 tiles between me and Purgy so i can retreat to the stairs without him following while free hiting me.

I then move to another downstair on the upper cleared floor.

Once down, there are several orcs nearby, one of them is a wizard but maybe with some luck i can take all of them but ... Natasha is there too. You must be kidding me.

I don't even try and move up.

Direction the last stairs. Hmm, so far nothing worth mentionning, kills some rats and etc... while looking for a downstair on area far from the Purgy and Natasha game over zones.

And on a corner i run into ...  Ijyb !
Ok, that's Ijyb ... 3 uniques on the same floor in early game, that's insane, but Ijyb is beatable, i beat that guy regularly in Crawl, and i could try to flee if for some reason my character is again too weak, there is certainly a downstair nearby, there's a lot of the dungeon level i explored already, there must be a downstair very close to the unexplored part.

So let's use that slow wand i just found and move to punch Ijyb.
Ok, that's not working, my character is too crappy yet in skills to really deal any worthy punch damage. let's move away, i slowed Ijyb down, so he will not be able to keep up.

Ijyb zaps a wand. The puff of flame hits you!
You die...

...

[Vactor]

So I'm getting to higher level with my first spellcaster (gargoyle wizard), and I'm wondering if I should be training my armor skill.  I've got str 13 right now, dodging at 10, and shields at 5 (with buckler) and I just finished the Swamp.  Does anyone have the skill levels necessary to negate the casting penalties of various armors?

I feel like i'm probably a bit squishy right now with AC: 22, EV: 18, SH: 4

[Leafsnail]

On the other hand, if you run away from too many fights, you miss out on XP and possibly items, and end up under-levelled. Resulting in more and more of the monsters at your current depth being dangerous, and eventually all the fights are hard fights.

Unless you're doing some kind of challenge run where you're trying to evade every monster this is very unlikely.  The majority of XP available in the game is from easy monsters, missing a couple of hard ones won't have much effect.

[Robsoie]

Managing to kill an early unique or a very early Ogre can give you a level and many skill increases at once.
Giving you a slight head on the "leveling" vs "challenge increase" curve.

But killing an early unique or a very early Ogre is something with high chance of YASD, so it's a big gamble.
In the same time we're talking of early game, when you're not yet really attached to that character and didn't found amazing loots, so it's not yet much of a problem to YASD it.
And if he manage to make the kill, as a result you're going to have a character that have then stronger chance to survive later.

[Leafsnail]

That's true, there are a couple of exceptions to that rule early on that may put you ahead for a short while.  But skipping them wouldn't leave you underleveled so much as "not over-leveled".

[BaronMunchausen]

So I'm getting to higher level with my first spellcaster (gargoyle wizard), and I'm wondering if I should be training my armor skill.  I've got str 13 right now, dodging at 10, and shields at 5 (with buckler) and I just finished the Swamp.  Does anyone have the skill levels necessary to negate the casting penalties of various armors?

I feel like i'm probably a bit squishy right now with AC: 22, EV: 18, SH: 4

With str 13, the penalties from wearing any armour with less than 13 encumbrance are probably manageable. Above that, iirc, the necessary skill investment can be a little xp-intensive, especially for spellcasters. I personally wouldn't wear anything heavier than a ring mail unless I found a nice artifact. Late-game, some of the dragon armors are probably the way to go. Robes, leather armor, troll leather, and the lighter DAs can be worn with no penalties I think. Sorry I don't have exact numbers; but if you pick something easy to cast in the Gargoyle innate AC should supplement it nicely. Just my 2 cents

[Vactor]

So I'm getting to higher level with my first spellcaster (gargoyle wizard), and I'm wondering if I should be training my armor skill.  I've got str 13 right now, dodging at 10, and shields at 5 (with buckler) and I just finished the Swamp.  Does anyone have the skill levels necessary to negate the casting penalties of various armors?

I feel like i'm probably a bit squishy right now with AC: 22, EV: 18, SH: 4

With str 13, the penalties from wearing any armour with less than 13 encumbrance are probably manageable. Above that, iirc, the necessary skill investment can be a little xp-intensive, especially for spellcasters. I personally wouldn't wear anything heavier than a ring mail unless I found a nice artifact. Late-game, some of the dragon armors are probably the way to go. Robes, leather armor, troll leather, and the lighter DAs can be worn with no penalties I think. Sorry I don't have exact numbers; but if you pick something easy to cast in the Gargoyle innate AC should supplement it nicely. Just my 2 cents

Thanks, I just found a +7 chain mail, and it only drops my orb of destruction down to %5 fail rate, and puts me up to 43AC (with other upgrades) 6EV.  I'll probably dump all my xp into armor for a little bit to try to mitigate the ev and spellcasting penalty, which shouldn't take too long for chain mail.  I found a hat of the high council too, but I can't wear it with anything but a robe or it kills my casting.  I'll just stick with defense for now, and hopefully be able to wear it later on.

[Retropunch]

Thanks, I just found a +7 chain mail, and it only drops my orb of destruction down to %5 fail rate, and puts me up to 43AC (with other upgrades) 6EV.  I'll probably dump all my xp into armor for a little bit to try to mitigate the ev and spellcasting penalty, which shouldn't take too long for chain mail.  I found a hat of the high council too, but I can't wear it with anything but a robe or it kills my casting.  I'll just stick with defense for now, and hopefully be able to wear it later on.
[/quote]

How are your defence/escape utilities? 43AC should definitely be enough AC, but 6EV is a killer if you've got pretty low HP (as a gargoyle does) as you're going to be taking pretty much every hit.
Have you got Repel/Deflect missiles up? Phase shift is a big investment as well, but is good for getting the EV up until you can balance out the armour.

[Vactor]

I was doing pretty well on buffs and escapes, and I found a +3 mottled dragon armor that I'm using now, sitting at AC:42 EV:14 SH:6, and I can wear my hat of the high council with it.

If I apply my buffs it gets up to AC:48 EV:22 SH:6 plus shroud and repel missiles. (and swiftness, blink, and control teleport)

I'm going to just dump my skills into dodging and air magic for the time being, my armor skill is up to 16 now.

[Elephant Parade]

Hmm. The entrances to the Ice Cave and Volcano appeared on the same floor, Lair:5.

I'm playing a Gargoyle Fighter of Quazlal. Now, I happen to have a Ring of Ice. Which should I enter?