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[beorn080]

Okay, well I suck at this game in general(don't think I've made it past level 7-8ish, even with Orc Fighter which aparently is babby mode). But I have a question concerning Necromancers, is there a way to skellies to follow you floor to floor? I assume not, since they're standing right next to me and not moving.

No. However, you can pick up corpses and move them down. Bringing a couple along with you can give you a semi decent meat shield if you aren't immediately under attack.

[Grek]

Turn 3: A gnoll comes into view!

I just walked right back up the stairs and restarted.

[Gamerlord]

How does that Shadow step thing work again?

[tompliss]

It lets you blink to a tile near a sleeping/paralized/petrified enemy inside your umbra aura.
It makes no sound (but there may be the same sound of you walking to this tile, I don't know), so it's a good way to ensure that you sneak to an enemy without walking near others, if you need to kill a ranged one, or a smite/buffer, basically.

[Gamerlord]

Nice.

[Graven]

Thanks for the advice, people! That dude died to a katoblepas [hurrr I can stay one more turn in this dust that seems to be turning all my muscle into bones], but I started another one.

Had shit luck for weapons, running a -1/+1 short sword since the only branded one was a -1/-1 short sword of speed.

Found the entrance to the lair, but thought I'd have no chance there without a decent weapon - large open levels, not good for stabbiness. So I dived a few levels of the dungeon. On d:11 found that Giants vault, which has an armoury room. Pack full of Hill Giants, some orcs. I was Xlvl 11. Shadowstepped among 5 hill giants, killed 2, the rest woke up. Hauled ass with a potion of speed, 1v1d the rest of the giants since I have decent defenses and umbra reduces accuracy which is huge against enemies with 2-handers.

In the armoury - randart Falchion, branded dagger and Quick Blade. Haven't ID-d any of them, but I feel like I'm in a good spot.

There is a Stone giant and a few Cyclopses sleeping in a corner, but I'm content to let them stay there for now.

edit : welp +7/+10 falchion of Freezing, MR++. Guess I got my lair weapon. The Quick Blade is plain, +4/+3. Gonna find a scroll of brand weapon for it and coast on it.

Hope you're not sick of my questions, since I gots more!

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-2328-g18f63ac (tiles) character file.

Gravenous the Spry (Kobold Assassin)               Turns: 27253, Time: 01:02:12

HP  97/97        AC 15     Str 10      XL: 15   Next: 43%
MP  31/31        EV 41     Int  9      God: Dithmengos [******]
Gold 2728        SH 19     Dex 23      Spells:  0 memorised, 14 levels left

rFire  + . .     SeeInvis .     c - +4,+3 quick blade
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     w - +2 robe {rF+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     V - +3 buckler of the Beekeeper {+Rage rC+ MR+ Str-1}
rPois  +         rCorr    .     q - +0 helmet (curse)
rElec  .         rRot     .     l - +3 cloak of Flash {+Fly EV+4}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     p - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   .         Warding  .     i - +0 pair of elf boots
Saprov + + .     Stasis   .     (no amulet)
MR     ++...                    D - cursed +2 ring of protection
                                n - cursed +5 ring of evasion

@: wreathed by umbra, very resistant to hostile enchantments, uncannily stealthy
A: disease resistance, carnivore 3, poison resistance, saprovore 2
a: Shadow Step, Shadow Form, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Flight


You are on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship Dithmengos.
Dithmengos is exalted by your worship.
You are full.

You have visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and seen 26 of its levels.
You have also visited: Sewer.

You have collected 3058 gold pieces.
You have spent 330 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 b - a +0 blowgun
 c - a +4,+3 quick blade (weapon)
 M - the +7,+10 falchion of Twuemm {freeze, rElec rF+ MR++}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
   opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Missiles
 y - 7 curare-tipped needles
 G - 36 poisoned needles
 Q - 3 needles of confusion
Armour
 i - a +0 pair of elven boots (worn)
 l - the +3 cloak of Flash (worn) {+Fly EV+4}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It lets you fly.
 p - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 q - a cursed +0 helmet (worn)
 w - a +2 robe of fire resistance (worn)
 V - the +3 buckler of the Beekeeper (worn) {+Rage rC+ MR+ Str-1}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your strength (-1).
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you go berserk.
Magical devices
 a - a wand of hasting {recharged}
 j - a wand of draining {zapped: 1}
 v - a wand of digging {zapped: 1}
 A - a wand of teleportation (2)
 K - a wand of frost (7)
 X - a wand of disintegration {zapped: 1}
Comestibles
 g - 5 meat rations
 z - a slice of pizza
 W - a cheese
Scrolls
 e - 3 scrolls of silence
 f - 3 scrolls of fog
 h - a scroll of identify
 o - 4 scrolls of fear
 r - 5 scrolls of teleportation
 u - 2 scrolls of noise
 E - 2 scrolls of vulnerability
 F - 2 scrolls of blinking
 I - 5 scrolls of remove curse
Jewellery
 m - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 n - a cursed +5 ring of evasion (left hand)
 D - a cursed +2 ring of protection (right hand)
 H - an uncursed ring of regeneration
 J - a cursed ring of teleport control
Potions
 d - a potion of resistance
 k - 7 potions of curing
 s - 5 potions of heal wounds
 x - 2 potions of might
 R - 2 potions of speed
Miscellaneous
 N - a fan of gales
 P - a phial of floods


   Skills:
 + Level 12,8 Fighting
 - Level 10,0 Short Blades
 - Level 2,6 Throwing
 - Level 15,3 Dodging
 - Level 15,3 Stealth
 - Level 7,1 Shields
 * Level 14,5 Evocations


You have 14 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (13/16)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (0/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9          Shoals (0/5) Lair:5
 Spider (0/5) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:8     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmengos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:6 (   D:9 }*   Orc:4 [(/(

Annotations:
D:9 exclusions: upstairs and 1 more exclusion
Lair:3 exclusion: 2 oklob plants
Lair:4 exclusion: hydra
Lair:5 exclusion: oklob plant


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You recuperate from illness quickly.
You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are carnivorous and can eat meat at any time.
You can eat rotten meat.
Your system is resistant to poisons.

This quickblade is taking forever to kill stuff. Should I start training some long blades? Or since stabbing was rolled into short blades, go for more short blades, since the hits from my shadow have a chance to distract enemies?

[Duuvian]

Short blades, though that falchion is pretty nice. As a stabber though pretty much always short blades from what I know of Crawl.

Training above mindelay speed for your weapon has in the past been unnecessary though I'm unsure if that has been changed or not. You could put it into dodge or such if that is the case.

[Gamerlord]

Actually, I've found Ogre or Troll monks/gladiators with giant clubs and specced in stealth do really well, epecially the Trolls. It takes a bunch of time and some work, but once you get to 'very stealthy' on a Troll you're golden.

[tompliss]

You generally shouldn't train above min-delay for your weapon. Quickblade may be an exception, as your short blade skill count toward your stabbing bonus, but you got a very high aptitude for stealth too, so you shouldn't bother.
You are right aboud reading your first/next brand weapon scroll on your quickblade.
By the way, Quickblades are the most damaging weapon, at with same bonus, than other weapons.
Yeah, they deal less damage, but they deal it nearly twice as fast as sabre (the other real shortblade you can count on late-game) : 0.3 turn instrad of 0.5.
This falchion will help you in lair with its freezing brand slowing most of the creatures, should you train a little bit of long blades. They require 14 skill to get to min-delay, but I really don't advise you to get that high. 5 or 6 should give you the little boost needed against non-stabbed enemies.
By the way, I think you know that, as you've run other stabbers before, but care about hydras, in lair. You have low-medium AC so they'll deal damage, and you should not use your falchion that will increase their head-number.

[Graven]

To be perfectly fair, I've only ran one other assassin, back way ago, and he had mind-boggling evasion so I kept tab permanently pressed until Zot, where an orb of fire instaggibed me through my massive 0 pips of rF.

So I'm kind of stranded in unknown waters now. I did clear elf:3 - turns out the fuckers see invisible, so it took a while. Funny how you never pay attention to which enemies can and can't see invisible until your life depends on it.

So currently I have the following skills :
14.1 Long blades
14.1 Short blades
17 Dodging
20 Stealth
7 Shields
15 Evocations

I am wearing the following equipment :
+4/+3 Quickblade
+7/+10 Falchion of freezing and various resists
+3 Cloak of Flash - +4 ev, fly

I have +10 slaying from my jewellery

I have in my inventory :
+9 Sword of Zonguldrok
Cloak of the Thief - Smoke, Stealth ++, -3 dmg.
+0 Antimagic demon blade

My question is : should I just slap all my ench weapon on the quickblade, and melee stuff with Zonguldrok if necessary? [will probably not work out, since the stupid thing recurses itself] Or should I enchant the demon blade and keep the quickblade for stabbing?

Can I afford to wear the Cloak of the thief? [I probably can, with my current level of slaying, however is the stealth bonus worth -4 evasion?]

Also god damn Cigotuvi's Fleshworks is disgusting. Made it a point to dig out all the poor disfigured wretches and kill them.

[tompliss]

You shouldn't need the cloak of the thief : you're at high piety with Dith so you'll have the clouds of smoke covering you from ranged enemies with taking even a little bit of damage, and you already have the stealth bonus from umbra. Note that both are Stealth bonus, so they count toward not being noticed/not waking up monsters, but not toward dealing more damage while stabbing.

The +9 sword should be kept for areas without much corpses (hall of blades, crypt/tomb, Pan, Hell), if you want to go there. those are mostly the same areas where you won't be able to get many stab bonus so it is even more useful there. but I wouldn't recommend getting there with your character, if you haven't won with a stabber first, as you may try to "simply" get 3 runes, the orb, and get away
If you have enchant scrolls, I would say you should get a EW3 (or EW2) on your quickblade, try branding it, and putting every other enchant on the demon blade. Demon blades are very good, and anti-magic brand is the best for Zot.

[Leafsnail]

The Cloak of the Thief is really fantastic - you get infinite uses of one of the best scrolls.  It's a bit less useful with Dith, but there are still plenty of times where you'd rather break LoS before you've started taking damage.

You generally shouldn't train above min-delay for your weapon. Quickblade may be an exception, as your short blade skill count toward your stabbing bonus, but you got a very high aptitude for stealth too, so you shouldn't bother.
You are right aboud reading your first/next brand weapon scroll on your quickblade.

I don't think stabbing damage is that big an issue for most stealth-based characters.  If you switch to a dagger for very high-health enemies then you'll take out almost anything (eg, it is perfectly possible for a mid-level stabber to one-shot TRJ with a dagger).  Maybe it would be worthwhile to raise short blades if you had a distortion quickblade, although I think if you have a distortion quicklblade you'll probably win regardless of what you train.

[Graven]

Meh.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.14-a0-2328-g18f63ac (tiles) character file.

434584 Gravenous the Slayer (level 25, -5/171 (178) HPs)
             Began as a Kobold Assassin on Feb 2, 2014.
             Was the Champion of Dithmengos.
             Slain by a deep troll (10 damage)
             ... while paralysed by a giant eyeball
             ... on Level 5 of the Depths.
             The game lasted 02:51:22 (74194 turns).

Gravenous the Slayer (Kobold Assassin)             Turns: 74194, Time: 02:51:22

HP  -5/171 (178) AC 15     Str 10      XL: 25   Next:  5%
MP  12/12        EV  3     Int 14      God: Dithmengos [******]
Gold 4642        SH  0     Dex 35      Spells:  0 memorised, 24 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis .     H - +5,+7 demon blade (antimagic)
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     w - +2 robe {rF+}
rNeg   . . .     Conserve .     V - +3 buckler of the Beekeeper {+Rage rC+ MR+ Str-1}
rPois  .         rCorr    .     i - +0 helmet {Int+3}
rElec  .         rRot     .     l - +3 cloak of Flash {+Fly EV+4}
SustAb . .       Spirit   .     p - +2 pair of gloves
rMut   +         Warding  .     O - +2 pair of boots of the Abyss {Dex+5 Int+2}
Saprov + + .     Stasis   .     S - amulet "Luokk" {rMut Dam+2}
MR     ++...                    T - +6,+4 ring of slaying
                                B - +0,+4 ring of slaying

@: paralysed, wreathed by umbra, very resistant to hostile enchantments,
uncannily stealthy
A: disease resistance, agile 1, carnivore 3, fire resistance 1, saprovore 2
a: Shadow Step, Shadow Form, Renounce Religion, Evoke Berserk Rage, Evoke Flight
}: 2/15 runes: silver, gossamer


You were on level 5 of the Depths.
You worshipped Dithmengos.
Dithmengos was exalted by your worship.
You were full.

You visited 9 branches of the dungeon, and saw 48 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Sewer and Wizlab.

You collected 7310 gold pieces.
You spent 2668 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 c - a +4,+2 quick blade
 H - a +5,+7 anti-magic demon blade (weapon)
 M - the +7,+10 falchion of Twuemm {freeze, rElec rF+ MR++}
   (You found it on level 11 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It has been specially enchanted to freeze those struck by it, causing extra
   injury to most foes and up to double damage against particularly susceptible
   opponents. It can also slow down cold-blooded creatures.
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Armour
 i - a +0 helmet of intelligence (worn)
 k - the +1 robe "Adghemp" {Str+2 Dex+2}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Depths)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
 l - the +3 cloak of Flash (worn) {+Fly EV+4}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It lets you fly.
 p - a +2 pair of gloves (worn)
 w - a +2 robe of fire resistance (worn)
 O - the +2 pair of boots of the Abyss (worn) {Dex+5 Int+2}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It affects your dexterity (+5).
 V - the +3 buckler of the Beekeeper (worn) {+Rage rC+ MR+ Str-1}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your strength (-1).
   It protects you from cold.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you go berserk.
Magical devices
 a - a wand of hasting (7)
 v - a wand of invisibility (1)
 x - a wand of disintegration (9)
 y - a wand of heal wounds (4)
 F - a wand of teleportation (6)
 J - a wand of digging (9)
 Y - a wand of draining (4)
Comestibles
 j - a beef jerky
 s - 8 cheeses
Scrolls
 b - a scroll of identify
 f - a scroll of fog
 g - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 o - 4 scrolls of fear
 r - 7 scrolls of teleportation
 u - a scroll of summoning
 z - a scroll of vulnerability
 A - 2 scrolls of remove curse
 E - 3 scrolls of amnesia
 U - a scroll of holy word
Jewellery
 d - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 h - a ring of the Octopus King {rF+ AC+1 EV+1 Str+1 Dex+1 Int+1}
   (You found it on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   It affects your AC (+1).
   It affects your evasion (+1).
   It affects your strength (+1).
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 m - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 t - a cursed amulet of inaccuracy
 B - a +0,+4 ring of slaying (left hand)
 D - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion {unknown}
 K - the ring of the Mage {Wiz MR+ Int+3}
   (You took it off a vault warden on level 5 of the Vaults)   
   
   [ring of wizardry]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 S - the amulet "Luokk" (around neck) {rMut Dam+2}
   (You found it in a wizard's laboratory)   
   
   [amulet of resist mutation]
   It affects your damage with ranged weapons and melee attacks (+2).
 T - a +6,+4 ring of slaying (right hand)
Potions
 e - 4 potions of curing
 n - 2 potions of restore abilities
 q - a potion of brilliance
Miscellaneous
 L - a fan of gales
 N - a fan of gales
 P - a phial of floods
 W - a stone of tremors
 X - a fan of gales


   Skills:
 * Level 23,9 Fighting
 - Level 14,1 Short Blades
 - Level 14,1 Long Blades
 - Level 2,6 Throwing
 + Level 23,5 Dodging
 - Level 22,8 Stealth
 - Level 7,1 Shields
 - Level 14,5 Evocations


You had 24 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/16)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:11
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:9          Shoals (0/5) Lair:5
 Spider (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:8       Vaults (5/5) D:15
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:4      Crypt (0/5) Vaults:3     Depths (5/6) D:16

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmengos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
The Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:6 (   D:9 }*   D:15 !   Orc:4 [(/(   Elf:2 (   Vaults:4 (/*%?!   Vaults:5 [   Depths:3 */(/

Portals:
Hell: Depths:1 Depths:2 Depths:3 Depths:4 Depths:5
Abyss: Depths:4
Pandemonium: Depths:1 Depths:3
Ziggurat: Depths:4
Trove: Depths:2 (give 6 potions of speed)

Annotations:
D:9 exclusions: upstairs and 1 more exclusion
Lair:3 exclusion: 2 oklob plants
Lair:4 exclusion: hydra
Lair:5 exclusion: oklob plant
Vaults:1 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne
Vaults:2 exclusion: door, Jory
Depths:2 exclusion: insubstantial wisp


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You recuperate from illness quickly.
You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are carnivorous and can eat meat at any time.
You can eat rotten meat.
You are agile. (Dex +2)
Your flesh is heat resistant.

Notes :
- Stealth is bad for me. I do not understand it. I do not want anything to do with it. It baffles me. Even with Dithmengos and 20 skill, enemies would regularly wake up before I could get to them, wake up while I was in the process of shanking their mates or just plain wake up and start shooting me.
- Could've easily escaped the situation, but I was unhappy with my char and wasn't paying much attention.
- Should've swapped evocations for spellcasting, but I never found reflect missiles anyway. Got haste, but... meh. I didn't really use the evocables much, or at all, really.
- Should've waited a bit before enchanting the Demon blade. I got better ones at Depths:1, but I had spent all my enchant scrolls by then.
- Dithmengos was great up to the point where he wasn't. He makes your strong points even stronger, but I had to shadowstep/form quite intensely at V:5 and my piety dropped quite fast. Also it turns out everything and its grandparents see invisble, so.

I suspect a lot of these problems are due to the fact I'm really bad at Crawl stealth. Fortunately I really don't expect to need to get better, since this was not a fun run and I don't want to repeat it.

[Dr Feelgood]

Playing stealthy characters is simple in crawl. Stealth is unreliable by itself, so use spells to make it more effective. Picking a god who grants summons to make it easier. I won with 4 stabbers and 2 of those were around level 16 with less than 100 HP.

[Robsoie]

Stealth is unreliable by itself

Yeah, that's what Crawl teached me, even with Stealth maxed at 27 , even with wearing item with stealth bonuses on them, still monsters will wake up randomly at the worst possible time for you.

But for the case when it actually work like you hope the results can be great, i will always remember my one-stab kill of that damned Mara with a spriggan in a now far past version.