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[Darkening Kaos]

First book my {mottled} Draconian Hunter picks up is Book of Battle, heh, *learns Infusion*.
Second book is Papyrus of Combat Magic, hmmm, *learns Mephitic Cloud*.
The Draconian can spit Sticky Flame. 

     But, my real question is, what level should I train Crossbow up to to get the most out of it?
     He is currently at lvl 8.1, (and he one-shots most Orcs).
     He will be using Crazy Yiuf's Staff of Chaos for melee, just because.

I am worried though, the RNG has been giving me replacement bolts, I have a stack of 37 atm, it was up to 50, it's all about to go pear-shaped, I reckon.

[Leafsnail]

If you use the staff of chaos then yes, something will go wrong sooner or later.

[Antioch]

I don't normally blame crawl for my deaths, but this death is just a pile of poo. I entered swamp 5 and saw some swamp dragons and some hell knights. So I thought ok, Margery is here, lets try another staircase first. I go up the staircase and try another down one. When I descend that staircase I am instantly surrounded by Margery and her hell knights. Since I had no blink I thought the best option was to use a scroll of fear to frighten away the hell knights and a good chance of frightening Margery herself.
I read scroll of fear, all hell knights flee, Margery resists with some effort (ok reasonable)
BAM 125 damage in one turn (wtf?)
you die.

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13.0 (tiles) character file.

194493 CPTANT the Scorcher (level 17, -26/99 HPs)
             Began as a High Elf Fire Elementalist on Oct 15, 2013.
             Was the Champion of Vehumet.
             Killed from afar by Margery (80 damage)
             ... with a fireball
             
             ... on Level 5 of the Swamp on Oct 16, 2013.
             The game lasted 03:03:00 (65775 turns).

CPTANT the Scorcher (High Elf Fire Elementalist)   Turns: 65775, Time: 03:03:00

HP -26/99        AC  8     Str  9      XL: 17   Next: 61%
MP  39/39        EV 16     Int 25      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 2034        SH  0     Dex 19      Spells: 13 memorised,  5 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   j - +1,+2 long sword (distort)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   I - +2 orc robe {MR+}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   J - +1 helmet {Int+3}
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : +   l - -1 cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   y - +0 pair of elf gauntlets
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   p - +0 pair of dwarf boots
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   B - amulet of the gourmand
Gourmand  : +                        c - ring of regeneration
                                     (no ring)

@: delayed fireball, drained, very resistant to hostile enchantments, fairly
stealthy
A: clarity
a: Renounce Religion, Release Delayed Fireball
}: 1/15 runes: serpentine


You were on level 5 of the Swamp.
You worshipped Vehumet.
Vehumet was exalted by your worship.
You were very full.

You visited 7 branches of the dungeon, and saw 38 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You also visited: Labyrinth and Ossuary.

You collected 4139 gold pieces.
You spent 2125 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 j - a +1,+2 long sword of distortion (weapon)
Armour
 l - a -1 cloak (worn)
 p - a +0 pair of dwarven boots (worn)
 y - a +0 pair of elven gauntlets (worn)
 I - a +2 orcish robe of magic resistance (worn)
 J - a +1 helmet of intelligence (worn)
Magical devices
 e - a wand of heal wounds (4)
 o - a wand of disintegration (8)
 L - a wand of random effects (18)
 M - a wand of teleportation (7)
 O - a wand of lightning (2)
Comestibles
 r - 12 honeycombs
 s - 12 sultanas
Scrolls
 a - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
 f - 4 scrolls of fog
 h - 2 scrolls of recharging
 i - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 k - 8 scrolls of teleportation
 m - 9 scrolls of identify
 t - a scroll of vulnerability
 v - a scroll of enchant weapon III {unknown}
 z - a scroll of enchant armour
 C - a scroll of brand weapon
 F - a scroll of enchant weapon II
 N - a scroll of fear
Jewellery
 c - a ring of regeneration (right hand)
 n - the amulet "Fueclava" {Ward Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 8 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [amulet of warding]
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
 w - an uncursed ring of flight
 A - an uncursed amulet of clarity {unknown}
 B - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck)
 D - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 E - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 G - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 H - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 Y - an uncursed ring of magical power
Potions
 b - a potion of invisibility
 d - 9 potions of curing
 g - 5 potions of speed
 q - a potion of degeneration {unknown}
 x - 6 potions of restore abilities
 K - 2 potions of resistance
 P - a potion of brilliance
Books
 u - a book of Callings   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Summon Small Mammal                Summoning                    1
   Call Imp                           Summoning                    2
   Call Canine Familiar               Summoning                    3
   Summon Scorpions                   Summoning/Poison             4
   Summon Ice Beast                   Ice/Summoning                4


   Skills:
 - Level 4,8(4,4) Fighting
 - Level 5,8(5,4) Long Blades
 - Level 5,9(5,5) Dodging
 - Level 2,1(1,7) Stealth
 - Level 15,0(14,5) Spellcasting
 * Level 18,9(18,3) Conjurations
 - Level 1,2(0,8) Charms
 - Level 2,2(1,8) Transmutations
 + Level 19,8(19,2) Fire Magic


You had 5 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        0%          1    None
b - Throw Flame           Conj/Fire      ######       0%          2    None
c - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      #######.     0%          4    None
d - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ###.......   4%          2    None
e - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #######...   1%          5    None
f - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         0%          1    None
g - Mephitic Cloud        Conj/Pois/Air  #####...     1%          3    None
h - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ###.......   4%          2    None
i - Iskenderun's Mystic   Conj           #######.     0%          4    None
j - Ignite Poison         Fire/Trmt      ######....   1%          5    None
k - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      ###.......   10%         3    None
l - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    ######.
m - Orb of Destruction    Conj           #######...   1%          7    ######.


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (12/27)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (3/3) Orc:4          Lair (8/8) D:8           Swamp (5/5) Lair:3
  Snake (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:6     

Altars:
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:5 [%%*[   D:6 [   D:9 /   Orc:2 %   Orc:4 *(/}?   Elf:1 =+[*%   Elf:3 *

Annotations:
D:2 exclusion: downstairs
Elf:2 exclusion: downstairs
Elf:3 1 exclusion
Lair:5 exclusion: downstairs
Lair:6 exclusion: downstairs
Lair:7 exclusion: 2 downstairs
Swamp:1 exclusion: 2 downstairs
Swamp:2 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne
Swamp:3 exclusion: 2 downstairs
Swamp:4 exclusion: downstairs
Swamp:5 Margery
Snake:3 1 exclusion, Norris
Snake:4 Jorgrun


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.


Message History

Found 43 gold pieces.
There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here.
As you read the scroll of fear, it crumbles to dust.
You assume a fearsome visage. The six-headed hydra looks frightened! Margery resists with some effort.
The necromancer looks frightened!
The hell knight looks frightened!
The swamp worm looks frightened!
The hell knight casts a spell.
The hell knight blinks!
The hell knight mumbles some strange words.
The hell knight blinks!
The necromancer casts a spell.
The necromancer flickers and vanishes!
Deactivating autopickup; reactivate with Ctrl-A.
Margery casts a spell at you.
The fireball explodes! The fireball engulfs you!
Two of your 10 scrolls of teleportation catch fire!
One of your 10 scrolls of identify catches fire!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...

    .˜˜˜..D˜˜˜˜
    ˜.˜˜˜...˜˜
    ??˜˜˜....
 ˜˜˜.?.˜˜..˜
$.˜˜˜?.{y˜.??˜?..˜˜
 ˜˜˜˜.˜˜.D<˜˜.....˜
  ˜˜˜˜˜˜˜˜..?..?˜..
   ˜§{˜.??˜?˜˜ ?
   ..@{.@??..˜?
   ??@@˜.˜.˜˜??
    ?@.@§? ??
    ?˜.???
    ?..?
    ????


You could see Margery, a six-headed hydra (fleeing), 3 hell knights, a
necromancer (fleeing) and a vampire mosquito.

[Leafsnail]

The scroll of fear doesn't generally work on things with high MR.  Also it seemed to only do 80 damage to you, which is well within the 3d33 of her fireballs.

[Antioch]

The scroll of fear doesn't generally work on things with high MR.  Also it seemed to only do 80 damage to you, which is well within the 3d33 of her fireballs.

I was pretty sure I had full health when reading the scroll, but they might have hit me on the initial descend (which wasn't really avoidable either)
Like I said, it was mainly to scare away the hell knights, which it did.

Point is, there was no alternative. only a scroll of blinking might have saved me, which I simply did not have. Random blink might have worked, but wasn't either in the books I found. Reading a scroll of teleport, potion of speed, potion of heal wounds, fog, summoning, wand of heal wounds or anything else would have resulted in the same 1 turn death. Quaffing resistance might have reduced the fireball damage by 1/3 but in that case 3 hell knights would happily bash my skull in.

[Leafsnail]

A scroll of fog would have saved you.

[Antioch]

A scroll of fog would have saved you.

No, the gang was adjacent and thus fog would not have blocked LOS.

[eeviac]

The scroll of fear doesn't generally work on things with high MR.  Also it seemed to only do 80 damage to you, which is well within the 3d33 of her fireballs.

I was pretty sure I had full health when reading the scroll, but they might have hit me on the initial descend (which wasn't really avoidable either)
Like I said, it was mainly to scare away the hell knights, which it did.

Point is, there was no alternative. only a scroll of blinking might have saved me, which I simply did not have. Random blink might have worked, but wasn't either in the books I found. Reading a scroll of teleport, potion of speed, potion of heal wounds, fog, summoning, wand of heal wounds or anything else would have resulted in the same 1 turn death. Quaffing resistance might have reduced the fireball damage by 1/3 but in that case 3 hell knights would happily bash my skull in.

The first tick of rF/rC reduces damage by 50%.

Also, you had an open ring slot and an rF ring in your inventory. Between Margery and the knights, I would have put that on before exploring Swamp5 any further. You had some bad luck, yes, but enough information to prepare beforehand.

[lemon10]

Yeah, you took some damage going down the stairs ("There is a stone staircase leading up, spattered with blood here."), so you didn't lose all your health in one turn. And if you had already had the ring of fire on you might have survived (although possibly not as margery would have gotten another shot at you even if you survived the first one).

But that is still a pretty exceptionally BS death.

[monk12]

You had some bad luck, yes, but enough information to prepare beforehand.

Especially since it was enough information to say "fuck this floor I'm coming back when I have rF++."  If it was me, I'd have done some more dungeon (unless you were going for that "4 runes before D:14" thing, in which case tough luck man. The not putting on the ring of rF+ is pretty egregious, though.

[UristMcDwarf]

bumparoo

[Mr Space Cat]

Testing in 0.13 Trunk, Lava Orc's passive speed boost when they reach a certain temperature does not incur Chei's wrath. Additionally, the Lava Orc's passive slow speed when at a low temperature makes getting Chei piety shortly after joining him easier.

I had a lot of fun with Chei. Dunno if his stat boosts were like this in earlier games, but the increase to Str improved my melee damage so much. With my +3+1 battleaxe of electrocution I was regularly "chopping <mobs> into little pieces!" and "slicing <mobs> like a ripe choko!" I would've loved to see how much damage I did with a fully enchanted executioner's axe. Not having to worry about piety was nice, since piety wasn't lost over time and killing almost anything faster than me had a chance of giving double piety. also, Slouching crowds of mobs to death and regaining the piety spent is really fun.

Chei's one drawback--being too slow to run--was rarely noticeable. I just used positioning and if I got caught somewhere bad, I'd read a tele scroll or a blink scroll or Step From Time. At one point I got grabbed by Roxanne and was surrounded by slimes and I nearly died there if I didn't have a tele scroll and a summoning scroll to distract stuff.

When I did finally die it was because some slime creatures morphed into a titanic slime and caught me in a corridor and they just wouldn't split apart or leave me alone, even in an open area. Tried stepping from time for a bit, which made the slimes split apart again, but after getting hit by the titanic slime several times I had no health for tanking 3 slimes.

Still was fun though. Might try a troll monk of chei next.

Spoiler: Infodump (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-3153-g497d563 (console) character file.

111799 Lofi the Severer (level 16, -2/137 HPs)
             Began as a Lava Orc Fighter on Oct 18, 2013.
             Was a High Priest of Cheibriados.
             Slain by a slime creature (13 damage)
             ... on Level 16 of the Dungeon on Oct 19, 2013.
             The game lasted 04:44:34 (31440 turns).

Lofi the Severer (Lava Orc Fighter)                Turns: 31440, Time: 04:44:35

HP  -2/137       AC 27     Str 40      XL: 16   Next:  6%
MP  19/29        EV  8     Int 23 (24) God: Cheibriados [*****.]
Gold 1676        SH  0     Dex 23      Spells:  4 memorised,  9 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + +   See Invis. : .   a - +3,+1 battleaxe (elec)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   d - +8 plate armour of Ihet {Str+2 Dam+5}
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   E - -1 orc helmet
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   R - +0 cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   A - +0 pair of gloves
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (no boots)
Res.Rott. : .       Flight     : .   (no amulet)
Saprovore : + . .                    Q - ring of protection from magic
                                     W - ring of regeneration

@: very slow, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: cold resistance 1, conserve scrolls, -10% mp, saprovore 1, slow metabolism 1,
Str +2
a: Bend Time, Temporal Distortion, Slouch, Step From Time, Renounce Religion


You were on level 16 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Cheibriados.
Cheibriados was extremely pleased with you.
You were hungry.

You visited 4 branches of the dungeon, and saw 29 of its levels.
You also visited: Labyrinth.

You collected 2738 gold pieces.
You spent 1082 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +3,+1 battleaxe of electrocution (weapon)
 b - a +0,+0 sling
Missiles
 e - 30 stones (quivered)
 O - 4 javelins
Armour
 d - the +8 plate armour of Ihet (worn) {Str+2 Dam+5}
   (You acquired it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
 A - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 E - a -1 orcish helmet (worn)
 R - a +0 cloak (worn)
Magical devices
 g - a wand of slowing (21)
 s - a wand of digging (6)
 K - a wand of disintegration (14)
 T - a wand of confusion (12) {unknown}
 X - a wand of paralysis (5)
 Y - a wand of confusion (13) {unknown}
Comestibles
 v - 3 bread rations
Scrolls
 h - 3 scrolls of fog
 k - a scroll of silence {unknown}
 l - 3 scrolls of identify {DL:1}
 x - 2 scrolls of remove curse {DL:2}
 B - a scroll of fear
 G - 8 scrolls of teleportation {DL:4}
 N - 3 scrolls of magic mapping
Jewellery
 m - an uncursed ring of teleportation
 o - an uncursed ring of sustain abilities
 q - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 r - the ring "Quil Emm" {+Inv +Fly Str-2}
   (You found it in a labyrinth)   
   
   [ring of flight]
   It affects your strength (-2).
   It lets you turn invisible.
 y - an uncursed ring of flight
 Q - a ring of protection from magic (right hand)
 W - a ring of regeneration (left hand)
Potions
 f - 2 potions of heal wounds {DL:1(healing?)}
 n - 2 potions of curing {DL:1}
 C - 2 potions of restore abilities
 P - 2 potions of might
Magical staves
 w - an uncursed staff of wizardry
Miscellaneous
 i - a phial of floods
Rods
 j - a +4 lightning rod (11/11)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)


   Skills:
 - Level 12.1 Fighting
 - Level 20.0 Axes
 * Level 12.1 Armour
   Level 3.2 Shields
 - Level 6.7 Spellcasting
 - Level 7.0 Translocations
 - Level 16.7 Invocations


You had 9 spell levels left.
You knew the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Recall                Summ/Tloc      N/A          24%         3    #......
b - Control Teleport      Chrm/Tloc      ###.......   80%         4    ###....
c - Controlled Blink      Tloc           N/A          100%        7    #######
d - Phase Shift           Tloc           #####.....   56%         5    ####...


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (16/27)            Temple (1/1) D:4             Orc (4/4) D:7
    Elf (0/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:11          Swamp (0/5) Lair:4
 Spider (0/5) Lair:3        Slime (0/6) Lair:7     
Vaults: D:15-20     

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Beogh

Shops:
D:4 ?+=[/   D:7 /   D:8 *   D:12 *   D:15 ?   D:16 (+   Orc:1 !   Orc:2 [
Orc:3 (!?   Orc:4 (!([

Portals:
Trove: D:13 (give +2 storm dragon armour)

Annotations:
D:15 exclusion: oklob plant
D:16 exclusion: Roxanne, Roxanne


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You have stony skin.
You cover ground quickly.
Your flesh is almost immune to the effects of heat.
Your fire spells are more powerful.
Your flesh is vulnerable to cold.
Your heat harms attackers.
You bathe your surroundings in blazing heat.
You are too hot to use scrolls.
You are very good at protecting items from fire.
You can tolerate rotten meat.
Your flesh is cold resistant.
Your magical capacity is low (-10% MP).
You have a slow metabolism.
Your muscles are strong. (Str +2)


Message History

You hit the slime creature.
The slime creature is lightly wounded.
You slash the slime creature! There is a sudden explosion of sparks!
The slime creature is almost dead.
The slime creature is burned by your radiant heat.
The slime creature is lightly wounded.
The slime creature hits you but does no damage.
The slime creature is singed by your heat.
The slime creature is lightly wounded.
Two slime creatures merge to form a large slime creature.
You slash the slime creature!
The slime creature is moderately wounded.
You hit the large slime creature.
The large slime creature is heavily wounded.
You completely miss the slime creature.
The slime creature is lightly wounded.
The slime creature is burned by your radiant heat.
The slime creature is heavily wounded.
The slime creature hits you!
You die...

.....KK..K#  #....).....>....
?......##K#  #...............
 .....  #.#  #..######.......
 ....   #.####..#    #...###.
 ###    #K......##   #.#.# ##
        ####.....#   #...#
          #......#   #...#
          #.JJ...#####...####
          #.@JJ...##.........
         ##.#####.##.##.##.#.
         ...#####.##.).....#.
        ###.##.......##.#)<..
          #.##.##.##......#..
          #.......##.........
          #.......##.##.##.##
          #....##.##.##.##.#
          #..#.##.##.......##


You could see a large slime creature and 3 slime creatures.

[Leafsnail]

I think strength's effect on damage output is still fairly marginal.  It's main advantage comes in the wearing of heavy armour.

The main disadvantage later on is the loss of haste - any other character can quaff a speed potion or usefully go berserk when times are rough.

[freeformschooler]

So um. I took everyone's earlier advice and only trained weapon skill unless I hit mindelay with my randart scimitar (DrFi of makhleb). Whats optimal to train after that? Fighting? Dodging? Invoke? Evoke? I've never gotten this far before

[da dwarf lord]

So um. I took everyone's earlier advice and only trained weapon skill unless I hit mindelay with my randart scimitar (DrFi of makhleb). Whats optimal to train after that? Fighting? Dodging? Invoke? Evoke? I've never gotten this far before

Usually once your weapon is at mindelay you are set for offense for a while, so usually you go for defense, mainly fighting, armour and/or dodging until you have a decent amount of defense (usually around 20-30ish EV depending on how you play and I usually get armour to around 10 - a decent amount of AC depends on what armour you're wearing) and fighting to about 10-15 cause its around then that your xlvl is high enough to make the hp gain from fighting worthwhile.