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[BigD145]

Whoa, I forgot to update the android version of this. Will have to find time to play. This is always good for a quick run and die.

[Bitoru]

So I'm back after a looong time without playing. What the hell happened to summoning? At least the nerfs apply to monster summoning too, right?

[Leafsnail]

At least the nerfs apply to monster...

hahahahaha

[zooeyglass]

Hello,

Quick q: what's happened to the Crawl wiki? I can't seem to access it. How does one drink from fountains? That's all I wanted to check for now...

Thanks! (any directions to better sources of information gratefully received too)

[Leafsnail]

It's not clear, maybe some kind of DDoS attack.  You shouldn't use it anyway unless you're ok with receiving lethally incorrect information and advice on a regular basis.

You can drink from blood fountains and sparkling fountains with "q".  Sparkling fountains can make you rot or mutate.

[TripJack]

wiki was taken down temporarily it seems, you can search for info here instead

i think 'q' lets you drink from a fountain

[zooeyglass]

Leafsnail: oh yes, the wiki is nothing compared to DF's excellent effort. Feels like it was written for competent players (& I am barely there yet)

Tripjack: thanks for the link.

Both: q. Got it. Thank you. Was aware that I could mutate/rot, yes.... It's for, well, a 'thing'.

[BigD145]

q is for quaffing
It seems to be fairly common in roguelikes if (d)rinking doesn't fall under (e)ating.

[Mr Space Cat]

Still running with my MiBe Moorage. Level 21, (draining is real annoying) and got two runes so far. I've nearly died several times yet, including down in Elf:3 because it was a wide open floor of empty plains filled with deep elf annihilators. Getting out of there was intense. Still wanna go back some time to loot Elven Halls. Eventually.

Question: How dangerous is Trog's Wrath?

See, I ran into Mara down in Vaults:3. I backed right back up the stairs and got away, but I dunno if I particularly want to risk fighting an "extremely dangerous" spellcasting unique like that. With TSO to back me up, I'd think I could nuke Mara with holy damage, or summon an army of angels or something. I'm gonna want to switch to TSO eventually anyway if I want to go for some extended game. I have food stocked and two rings of sustenance, so I'd think I could just wait in a dead end corridor somewhere clobbering beserk giants until the wrath runs out. Giants really are no issue for me atm, from general experience once I get into melee range and fight 1:1 it's easy victory. Can't say what a beserk giant would be like, but 1:1 should still be fairly even.

Spoiler: Possibly relevant character stats (click to show/hide)

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12.2 (console) character file.

Moorage the Impregnable (Minotaur Berserker)       Turns: 77820, Time: 14:20:47

HP 198/198       AC 41     Str 31      XL: 21   Next: 44%
MP  25/25        EV 12     Int  9      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 1916        SH 36     Dex 14      Spells:  0 memorised, 20 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : .   a - +4 eveningstar (protect)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   j - +7 plate armour "Guubim" {Str+3 Dex+2 Curs
Life Prot.: + . .   Conserve   : .   l - +2 shield
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   M - +1 wizard hat {MR}
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   K - +0 cloak of the Clouds {rN+}
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   r - +0 pair of gloves {Str+3}
Res.Mut.  : +       Stasis     : .   p - +1 pair of boots
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   N - amulet of resist mutation
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   E - ring of sustenance
                                     i - ring of sustenance

@: very resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2, AC +1
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion
}: 2/15 runes: barnacled, gossamer


You are on level 18 of the Dungeon.
You worship Trog.
Trog is exalted by your worship.
You are hungry.

You have visited 8 branches of the dungeon, and seen 53 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have also visited: Labyrinth.

You have collected 4008 gold pieces.
You have spent 2112 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +4,+4 eveningstar of protection (weapon)
 b - the +5,+8 longbow of Dyiroh {velocity, Int+1}
   (Trog gifted it to you on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Any arrow fired from it inflicts extra damage.
   
   It affects your intelligence (+1).
 c - a +1,+3 demon whip
 J - the +8 blowgun of Night {evade, *Tele Dex+3}
   (You found it on level 10 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+5 to EV).
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It causes teleportation.
 O - a +1,+0 morningstar of holy wrath
Missiles
 e - 8 needles of sickness
 o - 17 curare-tipped needles
 G - 140 poisoned needles
 R - 11 javelins of returning (quivered)
 X - 111 arrows
Armour
 j - the cursed +7 plate armour "Guubim" (worn) {Str+3 Dex+2 Curse}
   (You found it on level 2 of the Shoals)   
   
   It affects your strength (+3).
   It affects your dexterity (+2).
   It may recurse itself.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 l - a +2 shield (worn)
 p - a +1 pair of boots (worn)
 r - a +0 pair of gloves of strength (worn)
 K - the +0 cloak of the Clouds (worn) {rN+}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
 M - a +1 wizard hat of magic resistance (worn)
 U - a +2 large shield of protection
Magical devices
 s - a wand of enslavement {zapped: 3}
 v - a wand of disintegration (11)
 w - a wand of polymorph {zapped: 1}
 z - a wand of paralysis (
 F - a wand of confusion {zapped: 1}
 I - a wand of slowing (7)
 Q - a wand of heal wounds (9)
 Z - a wand of teleportation (7)
Comestibles
 h - a meat ration
 u - 4 bread rations
Scrolls
 q - 3 scrolls of remove curse {DL:1}
 A - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 Y - 2 scrolls of blinking
Jewellery
 i - a ring of sustenance (left hand)
 x - an uncursed ring of teleport control
 C - an uncursed ring of flight
 D - an uncursed ring of life protection
 E - a ring of sustenance (right hand)
 H - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 N - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 S - an uncursed ring of fire
 W - a +0,+6 ring of slaying
Potions
 g - a potion of restore abilities {DL:1}
 k - 3 potions of speed {DL:1}
 n - 5 potions of curing {DL:2}
 B - a potion of invisibility
 P - 2 potions of heal wounds
Books
 d - a book of Enchantments   
   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Cause Fear                         Hexes                        4
   Silence                            Hexes/Air                    5
   Tukima's Dance                     Hexes                        5
   Deflect Missiles                   Charms/Air                   6
   Haste                              Charms                       6
   
   
   Trog disapproves of the use of such an item.
Miscellaneous
 L - a bottled efreet
Rods
 V - a +2 rod of warding (9/9)
   (You found it on level 22 of the Dungeon)


   Skills:
 - Level 20.0 Fighting
 - Level 21.0 Maces & Flails
 - Level 7.2 Bows
 - Level 4.1 Throwing
 - Level 22.4 Armour
 - Level 12.7 Dodging
 * Level 19.6 Shields
 - Level 10.0 Traps
 - Level 7.1 Evocations


You have 20 spell levels left.
You don't know any spells.

[Leafsnail]

d is already taken by (d)ropping.

[TripJack]

Question: How dangerous is Trog's Wrath?

berserked stone giants and iron trolls are no joke, especially when you can't berserk yourself...

the wrath is going to last thousands upon thousands of turns though, so you might die of boredom sitting in the corridor

[Nivim]

[Predit@SpaceCat: I did not think this would get so long, but once I started responding to a couple things, I assumed you were hoping for feedback on everything you posted or else you wouldn't have posted it, and it was easier to keep going than to stop. Sorry.]

I've nearly died several times yet, including down in Elf:3 because it was a wide open floor of empty plains filled with deep elf annihilators. Getting out of there was intense. Still wanna go back some time to loot Elven Halls. Eventually.

I don't recall that Elf:3 end, but it sounds like you're going to need either a nice ranged attack, nice rod, or a way of obscuring LOS before you go back there. Either that or a /lot/ of EV. Also, how fast can you take down or escape various Fiends?

Question: How dangerous is Trog's Wrath?

Why don't you just ask the bots? Type in "Trog Wrath" and it will give you a fairly clear entry; if you don't quite understand it, the "wrath" then "penance" entries should clear things up the rest of the way. -- If you're asking for player opinion instead of data, trog's wrath is generally considered the worst of the god wraths.

See, I ran into Mara down in Vaults:3. I backed right back up the stairs and got away, but I dunno if I particularly want to risk fighting an "extremely dangerous" spellcasting unique like that.

Look up Mara's entry on the bots and you'll learn why it is good to consider it extremely dangerous.

With TSO to back me up, I'd think I could nuke Mara with holy damage, or summon an army of angels or something.

This requires good Invocations and piety; have you already found the entrance to Crypt? (Which, since you're playing 0.12, is not newCrypt; good for your character, boring for you.)

I'm gonna want to switch to TSO eventually anyway if I want to go for some extended game.

Have you already gotten a 3-rune win? If not, you should probably just win, since doing extended for the first time tends to result in death.

I have food stocked and two rings of sustenance, so I'd think I could just wait in a dead end corridor somewhere clobbering beserk giants until the wrath runs out. Giants really are no issue for me atm, from general experience once I get into melee range and fight 1:1 it's easy victory. Can't say what a beserk giant would be like, but 1:1 should still be fairly even.

See TripJack's post, but if you want to make it go faster you could put on an amulet of faith, if you've found one.
 Oh, and you'll probably want a ring of sustain abilities more than a sustenance ring. I mean, those rings are only -1 hunger a turn out of three, and you take three hunger to swing your weapon anyway. So long as you didn't berserk at every opportunity and conserved your perma-food using corpses, you should have enough food to last through most of the extended game while wearing a ring of hunger and regeneration.

EV 12

I know the EV penalties of plate armour, but it seems like you could have had much better EV if you had only put all the experience you dumped into Shields into Dodging instead-- I mean, there isn't even any really good one-handed weapons for Maces/Flails and you aren't even using the resist slot a shield gives you, and you're /still/ training shields even though most of the penalties are gone (are you training up for some really nice randart large shield?), and on top of that you're a berserker that would benefit so much more from a nice weapon... speaking of which--

a - +4 eveningstar (protect)

Has Trog not gifted you any better weapons at all? Flaming, freezing, antimagic, vampiric, or even just Elec? I see you have a swappable holy wrath, but if you're hiding some decent antimagic weapon, that would be great for Mara, then you can 'zerk your double when it appears despite that.

e - 8 needles of sickness

What use could you possibly have for these, especially compared to paralysis?-- No, even if you had no other needles, I can't think of any situation in which needles of sickness are better than moving or hitting things.

G - 140 poisoned needles

These are far slower than any damage you could do by hitting things the vast majority of the time; you have plenty of curare for quicksilver dragons and the like, and most other things you care about will be poison immune.

K - the +0 cloak of the Clouds (worn) {rN+}

No nice cloaks either? Like preservation or poison resistance?

I - a wand of slowing (7)

Anything that doesn't outright resist this could be better served by confusion or paralysis; unless I guess you're using weaker enemies as shields against stronger ones? Doesn't retaliation make that harder?

i - a ring of sustenance (left hand)
E - a ring of sustenance (right hand)

Even though I've already addressed it, these still look really weird on a XL21 character.

L - a bottled efreet

Is this going to be your first couple points of TSO piety? Better use it before getting high Evo, or it will be friendly and offer no XP when you kill it (I think it might still gives piety anyway, though).

V - a +2 rod of warding (9/9)

This the only rod you've found so far?
Oh, and I finally realized you don't seem to have any See Invisible; are you going to rely on TSO for that?

[lemon10]

Still running with my MiBe Moorage. Level 21, (draining is real annoying) and got two runes so far. I've nearly died several times yet, including down in Elf:3 because it was a wide open floor of empty plains filled with deep elf annihilators. Getting out of there was intense. Still wanna go back some time to loot Elven Halls. Eventually.

Question: How dangerous is Trog's Wrath?

See, I ran into Mara down in Vaults:3. I backed right back up the stairs and got away, but I dunno if I particularly want to risk fighting an "extremely dangerous" spellcasting unique like that. With TSO to back me up, I'd think I could nuke Mara with holy damage, or summon an army of angels or something. I'm gonna want to switch to TSO eventually anyway if I want to go for some extended game. I have food stocked and two rings of sustenance, so I'd think I could just wait in a dead end corridor somewhere clobbering beserk giants until the wrath runs out. Giants really are no issue for me atm, from general experience once I get into melee range and fight 1:1 it's easy victory. Can't say what a beserk giant would be like, but 1:1 should still be fairly even.

Mara is nasty. She has two main special abilities: A) She can summon clones of herself. I am about 90% sure they can all damage you and cast spells just as she can, but even if they can't they are still extremely annoying since it makes it much harder to target her. B) She summons a illusion of you that is basically the equivalent of a ghost of yourself (with the bonus of being timed but being able to use stairs).
You should probably avoid fighting her for a while.

If you *are* willing to wait (tens?) of thousands of turns waiting in a corner, then Trog's wrath isn't really much of a threat. Otherwise it's pretty nasty since it can hit you big at an inopportune time.
You only need 1 ring of sustenance to reduce your hunger to 1 a turn.

[Nivim]

You only need 1 ring of sustenance to reduce your hunger to 1 a turn.

Hm? I thought it rounded down?
Edit: Just looked up it; it rounds hunger down, not the subtraction from hunger. I guess since it's smaller than I have any reason to care about I just never payed attention.

[Il Palazzo]

Ugh, finally I won all there was to win. I kinda wanted to break 100 AC too :/

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.13-a0-2910-g7a74111 (tiles) character file.

12198859 Stoned Golem the Invulnerable (level 27, 201/201 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fighter on Sept 2, 2013.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes!
             
             The game lasted 09:14:01 (135473 turns).

Stoned Golem the Invulnerable (Gargoyle Fighter)  Turns: 135473, Time: 09:14:01

HP 201/201       AC 97     Str 30      XL: 27
MP  45/45        EV 28     Int 14      God: the Shining One [******]
Gold 11984       SH 59     Dex 20      Spells:  0 memorised, 61 levels left

Res.Fire  : + . .   See Invis. : .   k - +10,+6 mithril axe "Arga" {speed, MR+ Str+
Res.Cold  : + + .   Warding    : .   q - +18 crystal plate armour of Valour {Dex+3
Life Prot.: + + +   Conserve   : +   d - +2 large shield {reflect}
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : +   J - +2 helmet of the Abyss {+Blink +Rage rF+ r
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   b - +4 dragonskin cloak
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   N - +3 pair of gauntlets of War {Acc+5 Dam+5}
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   e - +2 pair of boots {Fly}
Res.Rott. : +       Flight     : +   s - amulet "Duladgha" {Cons Dex+3 Int+4}
Saprovore : . . .                    E - ring of Robustness {AC+8}
                                     c - ring "Tifuwiunn" {rElec MR++ Dex+1}

@: flying, glowing, extraordinarily resistant to hostile enchantments, very
unstealthy
A: large and strong wings, fangs 1, talons 2, life protection 1, electricity
resistance, slow metabolism 1, unbreathing, petrification resistance, AC +20
a: Stop Flying, Divine Shield, Cleansing Flame, Summon Divine Warrior, Renounce
Religion, Evoke Blink, Evoke Berserk Rage
}: 15/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, golden, iron, obsidian, icy, bone,
abyssal, demonic, glowing, magical, fiery, dark, gossamer


You escaped.
You worshipped the Shining One.
the Shining One was exalted by your worship.
You were not hungry.

You visited 18 branches of the dungeon, and saw 107 of its levels.
You visited Pandemonium 2 times, and saw 22 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 1 time.
You completed 1 Ziggurat, and saw 27 of its levels.
You also visited: Ice Cave and Wizlab.

You collected 20425 gold pieces.
You spent 4751 gold pieces at shops.
You used 3710 gold pieces for miscellaneous purposes.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 k - the +10,+6 mithril axe "Arga" (weapon) {speed, MR+ Str+2}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 1 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long, but cause slightly less damage.
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 o - the cursed +11,+11 morningstar "Eos" {elec, -Tele rElec SInv}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   Occasionally, upon striking a foe, it will discharge some electrical energy
   and cause terrible harm.
   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It enhances your eyesight.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 D - a +9,+9 Blessed Scourge
 H - the +8,+8 bow of Krishna "Sharnga" {speed, Dex+3 SInv}
   (You found it on level 15 of a ziggurat)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long, but cause slightly less damage.
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It enhances your eyesight.
Armour
 b - the +4 dragonskin cloak (worn)
   (You took it off Tiamat on level 5 of the Realm of Zot)
 d - a +2 large shield of reflection (worn)
 e - a +2 pair of boots of flying (worn)
 j - the +3 cloak of Flash {+Fly EV+4}
   (You found it on level 16 of a ziggurat)   
   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It lets you fly.
 n - a +2 cloak of preservation
 q - the +18 crystal plate armour of Valour (worn) {Dex+3 Curse}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It may recurse itself.
 t - the +2 hat of the Bear Spirit {Spirit, +Rage rN+ MR+}
   (You found it on level 19 of a ziggurat)   
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
   It lets you go berserk.
 J - the +2 helmet of the Abyss (worn) {+Blink +Rage rF+ rC+ rN+ Stlth++}
   (You acquired it on level 1 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It lets you blink.
   It lets you go berserk.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 N - the +3 pair of gauntlets of War (worn) {Acc+5 Dam+5}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   It affects your accuracy (+5).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
Magical devices
 i - a wand of teleportation (6)
 u - a wand of hasting (4)
 B - a wand of disintegration (3)
Comestibles
 g - 11 meat rations
 z - 11 bread rations
Scrolls
 w - 3 scrolls of recharging
 x - a scroll of holy word
 y - 2 scrolls of identify
 A - 9 scrolls of remove curse
 M - 2 scrolls of blinking
 O - 2 scrolls of teleportation
 T - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
Jewellery
 a - a cursed amulet of clarity
 c - the ring "Tifuwiunn" (left hand) {rElec MR++ Dex+1}
   (You took it off a red devil in Pandemonium)   
   
   [ring of dexterity]
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
 f - an uncursed amulet of resist mutation
 m - a cursed amulet of resist corrosion
 p - an uncursed ring of protection from fire
 r - an uncursed ring of protection from cold
 s - the amulet "Duladgha" (around neck) {Cons Dex+3 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 6 of the Pits of Slime)   
   
   [amulet of conservation]
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
 E - the ring of Robustness (right hand) {AC+8}
   (You found it on level 2 of a ziggurat)   
   
   [ring of protection]
   It affects your AC (+8).
 G - the cursed amulet "Wuilek" {Stasis rF+}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Tomb of the Ancients)   
   
   [amulet of stasis]
   It protects you from fire.
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 K - a cursed amulet of warding
 P - the cursed ring "Chaizoy" {rF+ Dex+4 Int+4}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Iron City of Dis)   
   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+4).
   It has a curse placed upon it.
 U - a cursed ring of protection from cold
 V - the ring "Pruloc" {rN+ Str+4}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of positive energy]
   It affects your strength (+4).
 W - the ring of the Will of the Gods {Int+3 Dam+5 SInv}
   (You found it on level 1 of the Abyss)   
   
   [ring of see invisible]
   It affects your intelligence (+3).
   It affects your damage-dealing abilities (+5).
 Y - a cursed ring of sustain abilities
Potions
 l - 13 potions of curing
 v - 5 potions of restore abilities
 L - 3 potions of resistance
 R - 5 potions of agility
Orbs of Power
 h - the Orb of Zot


   Skills:
 O Level 27 Fighting
 O Level 27 Axes
 O Level 27 Maces & Flails
   Level 11,2 Polearms
 + Level 11,0 Bows
 - Level 0,8 Throwing
 O Level 27 Armour
 O Level 27 Dodging
 O Level 27 Stealth
 O Level 27 Shields
 - Level 0,9 Unarmed Combat
 * Level 17,6 Spellcasting
 O Level 27 Invocations
 + Level 21,2 Evocations


You had 61 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (27/27)            Temple (1/1) D:5             Orc (4/4) D:8
    Elf (3/3) Orc:3          Lair (8/8) D:12          Swamp (5/5) Lair:4
 Spider (5/5) Lair:4        Slime (6/6) Lair:8       Vaults (5/5) D:20
  Blade (1/1) Vaults:4      Crypt (5/5) Vaults:3       Tomb (3/3) Crypt:3
    Dis (7/7) Hell            Geh (7/7) Hell            Coc (7/7) Hell
    Tar (7/7) Hell            Zot (5/5) D:27       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Okawaru
Sif Muna
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
the Shining One
Beogh
Jiyva

Shops:
D:17 (   D:21 ?   D:23 ([%(   Orc:1 [   Orc:4 [=+%   Elf:1 +[!(?
Vaults:1 ?   Vaults:3 (   Vaults:4 ?

Portals:
Hell: D:21 D:22 D:23 D:24 D:25 D:26 D:27
Abyss: D:22 D:25
Pandemonium: D:24 D:25 D:27

Annotations:
D:4 exclusion: oklob plant


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are resistant to torment.
You are immune to poison.
You can fly continuously.
Your stone body is very resilient (AC +20).
Your wings are large and strong.
You have very sharp teeth.
You have razor-sharp toenails.
You resist negative energy.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You have a slow metabolism.
You can survive without breathing.
You are immune to petrification.