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[freeformschooler]

Okay, so obviously a bunch of people in the competition are really good players, judging by this thread. I'm not (and thus didn't compete). My dilemma:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I can consistently get up to dungeon levels four or five with any character now. However, I always end up slain by

-Gnoll packs
-Multiple fast-moving uniques that get close to me before I can make it to the stairs
-Multiple Ogres and nearby orc wizards/priests
-Other horrible beasts sometimes out-of-level

For a HiFi (High elf fighter?) what's the optimal strategy? Just run like hell? That doesn't seem to be working as I keep getting surrounded by fast things. I always get Throwing way up and take Dex on levels 3 and 6 for better ranged whittling. Currently poring over the tips on CrawlWiki. There's gotta be something I'm not doing that I'm missing.

I also tend to encounter shrines very rarely for some reason (except for ones I don't want like Trog or Cher).

[Robsoie]

About gnolls, usually when you meet a pack of gnolls for the 1st time (they can be found in D:2 sometime! i even found one on D:1 though probably out of depth in D:1 as he was alone, not in pack) , the thing to know is that at the time they're very likely to be too strong for the player, depending on what level and items you have, maybe you can take 1 on a 1vs1 , but most likely not.

Then if you can't get in 1vs1 situation and drag the whole pack after you, they are very likely using polearms, allowing them to reach you from 1 more tile range, so while you're busy being killed by the one you're meleeing, the one behind him is still stabbing you to death repeatedly with his polearm.

While they have no real armor , Ogre can hit -very- hard, and when you're low level they can then deal your character a killing blow anytime.

orc priests : the first time you see one in range, run toward a stair by using the dungeon configuration to hide yourself from his view for the most possible time, don't even try to engage, not only they're never alone so you're not guaranteed to reach them and kill them quickly, they're low level player murdering machine due to their smite ability that can hit you as long as they have you on your line of sight.

Later it's not a problem anymore, as you have enough health.

The orc wizards are annoying due to their ability to use ranged attack and turning invisible, so the first time you meet them, you have very likely no way to see invisible, making them then extremely hard to hit , while they have no problem with hitting you with spells, avoid until you're better level.

A game changing regarding those encounter at low level is finding a good wand (fire/electricity/frost/draining) that can allow you to kill those (early) powerfull enemies quickly and then get a lot of experience and skills points as a reward.

But without great offensive capabilities are such an early level, you're better with running away , until you get more health/better items/spells

Running away is the primary skill a crawl player must master, crawl reward cowards with survival while reward bravery with a "yet another stupid death".
If something is too strong and see you, run to stairs, then come back from another set of stairs, and when you're higher level/better equipment/spells you can come back to take revenge if you wish.
Don't count on your luck, it will abandon you at your character most needing time.

[Anvilfolk]

I'm having an awesome Hill Orc Berserker run... I'm starting to get very afraid of losing it



Just entered the orcish mines after falling through to dungeon level 12 then coming back up ASAP. Trog loves me and has given me some amazing weapons.  There were orcs, orc warriors, knights, priests and mages. One berserk and they were wiped out. The axe's ability to attack multiple enemies in an arc is amazing for packs of enemies! Plus, hill orcs love axes.

I've got TONS of wands (fireball, flame, digging, disintegration), tons of rings (+5 and +2 protection, regen, sustenance, see invisible, etc etc), food aplenty, and found a couple of mutation potions that gave me resistance to poison, horns, +1 strength and a few other things. Also just found a scroll of acquiring, asked for armour, and it gave me an AC 0 cap that gives me +5 strength and +3 dexterity, or something.


Like I said, I'm so scared of losing this guy!!!

[freeformschooler]

Thank you Robsoie. I'll try to tone down the Rambo even further knowing that without good offense I just can't take some of those guys. Excellent advice, maybe I'll start to get to DL5-6 now

[FluidDynamite]

If you're mostly dying on D:4~D:5, and aren't using a particularly strange character/class combo, I think you might want to work on your positioning and how you explore unknown dungeon areas. Ogres, gnolls, and all early uniques (Ijyb, Sigmund, Jessica, Terence, Crazy Yiuf, Grinder, Menkaure, I think that's all) are either as fast as you are or slower, meaning that as long as you don't walk right next to them after turning a corner or something, you will be able to escape them by using stairs. Even if they're right next to you, due to the way Crawl calculates movement speeds the monsters will sometimes fall behind a square (or get a hit on you), this will open a window for you to escape.

Seeing how you mentioned "multiple" a couple of times, if you see a monster that's known to spawn in packs (orcs, gnolls, jackals, etc) try to attract the attention of only one monster at a time. Try throwing a stone or dart at one of them with only one monster in LOS. The guy you attacked will probably notice you and shout, drawing the attention of nearby monsters, but only the guy you hit will know your "exact" location, while other guys will only know you're nearby (they'll have a question mark on top of them). This is when you move backwards into a area you already cleared out. The guy who knows your exact location will follow, while the other guys will only wander around randomly. Kill the guy, pull the next one, rinse and repeat and you should be able to safely take down packs.

So yeah, basically what Robsoie said, if you aren't too sure you'll be able to kill something the best choice is usually to run away. You can always come back and blow up Sigmund once you're three levels higher.

EDIT: Posting some character files will also help in identifying your problems.

[miauw62]

So, I just started playing this again and I'm on quite a roll. I'm on D:6 and XL 8. I'm a MiBe, if I get this right. I've followed this thread for a while, so I also stacked up on clubs to throw. I've killed Blork the Orc, Edmund and another unique I don't remember the name of (the one that says something about a mercenary and a price on his head in the description) E: Menkaure too, now. Not hard with my battleaxe of flaming.

I found some mutagenic flesh and I'm unsure wether I should eat it or not.

E: Well, nevermind. I ran into an orc army, used my teleport scroll and got locked inbetween two orc armies with no way out;

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.12.1 (tiles) character file.

1805 Miauw the Ducker (level 8, -5/68 HPs)
             Began as a Minotaur Berserker on May 28, 2013.
             Was a High Priest of Trog.
             Killed by divine providence
             ... invoked by an orc priest
              (11 damage)
             ... on Level 6 of the Dungeon.
             The game lasted 00:57:17 (4926 turns).

Miauw the Ducker (Minotaur Berserker)               Turns: 4926, Time: 00:57:17

HP  -5/68        AC 10     Str 23      XL: 8   Next: 51%
MP   2/2         EV  7     Int  4      God: Trog [*****.]
Gold 308         SH  0     Dex 11      Spells:  0 memorised,  7 levels left

Res.Fire  : . . .   See Invis. : +   d - +2 battleaxe (flame)
Res.Cold  : . . .   Warding    : .   f - +0 chain mail
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   (no shield)
Res.Poison: .       Res.Corr.  : .   (helmet restricted)
Res.Elec. : .       Clarity    : .   (no cloak)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Spirit.Shd : .   B - +0 pair of orc gloves
Res.Mut.  : .       Stasis     : .   (no boots)
Res.Rott. : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   (no amulet)
Saprovore : . . .   Flight     : .   (no ring)
                                     p - ring of see invisible

@: slightly resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: retaliatory headbutt, horns 2
a: Burn Spellbooks, Berserk, Trog's Hand, Brothers in Arms, Renounce Religion


You were on level 6 of the Dungeon.
You worshipped Trog.
Trog was exalted by your worship.
You were hungry.

You visited 1 branch of the dungeon, and saw 6 of its levels.

You collected 288 gold pieces.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +0,+0 hand axe {=f}
 b - a -1,+0 orcish club
 d - a +2,+2 battleaxe of flaming (weapon)
 g - a cursed -1,-1 dagger
 h - a +0,+0 dwarven short sword
 i - a +0 blowgun
 q - a cursed +1,-1 dwarven dagger
 A - a +0,+0 war axe
Missiles
 e - 19 darts (quivered)
 j - 8 poisoned needles
Armour
 f - a +0 chain mail (worn)
 B - a +0 pair of orcish gloves (worn)
Comestibles
 c - 3 bread rations
 k - a meat ration
 t - a choko
 x - an apple
Scrolls
 n - 4 scrolls of identify
 v - a scroll of amnesia
 F - a scroll of remove curse
 G - a scroll of immolation
Jewellery
 p - a ring of see invisible (left hand)
Potions
 l - 2 potions of speed
 I - a potion of curing


   Skills:
 + Level 5.4 Fighting
 + Level 6.0 Axes
 + Level 4.4 Throwing
 + Level 5.8 Armour
 + Level 6.2 Dodging
 + Level 1.0 Stealth
 + Level 0.8 Traps


You had 7 spell levels left.
You didn't know any spells.

Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (6/27)           
Temple: D:4-7          Orc: D:6-11     

Altars:
Elyvilon
Kikubaaqudgha
Nemelex Xobeh
Trog
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul

Shops:
D:6: [

Annotations
D:4 Grinder
D:6 Ijyb


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You reflexively headbutt those who attack you in melee.
You have a pair of horns on your head.


Message History

Found 20 stones.
A giant gecko comes into view.
An orc comes into view. It is wielding an orcish flail.
The orc shouts!
A water moccasin skeleton comes into view.
2 orcs and an orc priest come into view.
The orc shouts! The orc priest shouts!
An orc comes into view. It is wielding an orcish trident.
The giant gecko bites you but does no damage.
The giant gecko barely misses you.
The orc priest becomes somewhat translucent.
The giant gecko bites you.
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
The giant gecko bites you but does no damage.
Found a scroll of remove curse.
Ijyb comes into view.
Ijyb shouts! The orc shouts!
The orc priest calls down the wrath of Beogh upon you.
Something smites you!
You die...

#.........
#..........
#...........
#.......g.....
#...o....o.....
#......(.....?..
#...............#
#......o........#
#......%>.......#
#....o.z.o......#
#.......o@......#
#......l........#
#...............#
#...............#
#...............#
#...............#
#...............#
#...............#
#.......o.......#
#.........#^#...#
#.........^!§...#


You could see Ijyb, 2 orc priests, an orc wizard, 4 orcs, a giant gecko and a
water moccasin skeleton.

Vanquished Creatures
  Edmund (D:4)
  Menkaure (D:6)
  An ice beast (D:5)
  A sky beast (D:6)
  A hippogriff zombie (D:4)
  An ogre (D:5)
  A centaur (D:3)
  A water moccasin (D:6)
  Blork the orc (D:4)
  3 crimson imps (D:5)
  A hound (D:6)
  4 scorpions
  An iguana (D:4)
  2 orc wizards
  A jelly (D:6)
  3 worker ants
  Terence (D:3)
  13 adders
  4 gnolls (D:4)
  3 worms
  An inept item mimic (D:5)
  7 giant geckos
  2 oozes
  8 orcs
  8 giant cockroaches
  10 goblins
  12 hobgoblins
  2 jackals (D:3)
  15 kobolds
  2 ball pythons
  14 bats
  6 giant newts
  2 kobold zombies (D:5)
  A quokka (D:4)
  13 rats
148 creatures vanquished.

Vanquished Creatures (others)
  A human (D:2)
  An orc (D:4)
2 creatures vanquished.

Grand Total: 150 creatures vanquished

Notes
Turn   | Place    | Note
--------------------------------------------------------------
     0 | D:1      | Miauw, the Minotaur Berserker, began the quest for the Orb.
     0 | D:1      | Reached XP level 1. HP: 19/19 MP: 0/0
   109 | D:1      | Reached XP level 2. HP: 21/26 MP: 0/0
   172 | D:1      | Reached skill level 4 in Fighting
   501 | D:1      | Acquired Trog's second power
   557 | D:1      | Reached XP level 3. HP: 25/33 MP: 1/1
  1091 | D:2      | Reached skill level 1 in Throwing
  1451 | D:2      | Reached XP level 4. HP: 29/40 MP: 1/1
  1490 | D:2      | Found a shimmering altar of Xom.
  1611 | D:2      | Found an ancient bone altar of Kikubaaqudgha.
  1611 | D:2      | Noticed a human
  1615 | D:2      | Killed a human
  1615 | D:2      | Noticed a human zombie
  2305 | D:3      | Noticed a moth of wrath
  2306 | D:3      | Found a bloodstained altar of Trog.
  2411 | D:3      | Noticed Terence
  2429 | D:3      | Killed Terence
  2429 | D:3      | Acquired Trog's third power
  2429 | D:3      | Reached XP level 5. HP: 24/46 MP: 1/1
  2545 | D:3      | Noticed a centaur
  2555 | D:3      | Killed a centaur
  3028 | D:3      | Reached XP level 6. HP: 51/53 MP: 2/2
  3271 | D:4      | Noticed Blork the orc
  3296 | D:4      | Killed Blork the orc
  3335 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Dodging
  3429 | D:4      | Found a sparkling altar of Nemelex Xobeh.
  3538 | D:4      | Reached XP level 7. HP: 44/59 MP: 2/2
  3592 | D:4      | Noticed Edmund
  3601 | D:4      | Killed Edmund
  3601 | D:4      | Reached skill level 5 in Axes
  3621 | D:4      | Found a radiant altar of Vehumet.
  3827 | D:4      | Noticed Grinder
  3840 | D:5      | Entered Level 5 of the Dungeon
  3880 | D:4      | Paralysed by Grinder for 6 turns
  4022 | D:5      | Found a basalt altar of Yredelemnul.
  4057 | D:5      | Found a white marble altar of Elyvilon.
  4243 | D:5      | Reached skill level 5 in Fighting
  4362 | D:5      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  4432 | D:5      | Reached XP level 8. HP: 47/68 MP: 2/2
  4644 | D:6      | Reached skill level 5 in Armour
  4661 | D:6      | Reached skill level 6 in Dodging
  4701 | D:6      | Noticed Menkaure
  4708 | D:6      | Killed Menkaure
  4845 | D:6      | Found Miexirui's Armour Shoppe.
  4926 | D:6      | Noticed Ijyb
  4926 | D:6      | Killed from afar by an orc priest


Action                   |  1- 3 |  4- 6 |  7- 9 || total
-------------------------+-------+-------+-------++-------
Melee: Hand axe          |    76 |    19 |       ||    95
       War axe           |       |    83 |       ||    83
       Battleaxe         |       |    14 |    96 ||   110
 Fire: Blowgun           |       |     8 |       ||     8
Throw: Dart              |     3 |     1 |       ||     4
       Club              |    32 |    59 |    57 ||   148
       Dagger            |     8 |    15 |    13 ||    36
       Hand axe          |       |     3 |     3 ||     6
Invok: Berserk           |       |     1 |       ||     1
       Burn Spellbooks   |       |     1 |       ||     1
  Use: Scroll            |    10 |     4 |     5 ||    19
       Potion            |     3 |     1 |     4 ||     8

[Rince Wind]

I am playing a Hill Orc Priest atm (online, it still won't work on my computer.). Now that I got followers, I wonder if I can make them pick up better equipment.
I am pretty sure I did this before, but I can't remember how. I can't "t"ell them to pick something up at least.

[Anvilfolk]

Ah, man, those open levels are the WORST! I tend to stick close to stairs so I can go up/down and kill fewer enemies. Also, axes totally help with their multiple slasharoonies!

I also tried to optimise the axe build a bit, and it seems like the hill orc is the most proficient at those, and is also pretty good with armour. I only level up Fighting, Axes and Armour. Screw dodging/evasion, it's like, -1000 once you find plate mail. Throwing too - I tend to rely more on Berserk, potions, scrolls and wands.

[G-Flex]

-Multiple fast-moving uniques that get close to me before I can make it to the stairs

Does Crawl even have any fast-moving uniques as early as D:5?

[freeformschooler]

-Multiple fast-moving uniques that get close to me before I can make it to the stairs

Does Crawl even have any fast-moving uniques as early as D:5?

I'm probably wrong about their speed, it just seems faster because

>Sigmund
>Move one tile away
>Hit by par wand, lasts multiple turns, hi sigmund

>Jessica
>Move one tile away
>Hit by slow
>Hi fifteen Eustachio demons

This only happens on characters that are off to a promising start

[vogonpoet]

If you are struggling with melee very early on, there are two tips I would give:

• Switch all your skills off apart from your main weapon skill, until you reach at least weapon level 10 (then some armour and fighting, then more weapon skill to minimum delay, then more weapon skill to minimum delay with a bigger weapon).
• If you see a monster, retreat (that way you will take the monster on by itself, in known, already cleared terrain).

Eventually you will get a better feel of which skills to train when, but really, offense offense offense is the best way to go, certainly pre-temple. And don't get throwing skill. Throw stuff (early slings are awesome too), but don't train.

[Leafsnail]

Prince Ribbit can show up on D:4.  There's also a couple with conditional-fast movers like Jessica and Dowan/Duvessa.

[Antioch]

The adder bites you.
You are poisoned.
The adder poisons you! The adder completely misses you.
You hit the adder.
The adder is heavily wounded.
You have got your breath back.
The adder bites you.
You are more poisoned.
The adder poisons you!
You slash the adder!
The adder explodes!
The fiery explosion engulfs you!
Ouch! That really hurt!
* * * LOW HITPOINT WARNING * * *
Your Stealth skill increases to level 1!
You are engulfed in roaring flames.
Your scroll labeled WUOQIR MEURIUMU catches fire!
Ouch! That really hurt!
You die...
Xom snickers!

  3896 | D:3      | XOM: inner flame monster(s)
  3899 | D:3      | HP: 1/34 [adder/exploding inner flame[Xom] (28)]
  3899 | D:3      | Reached skill level 1 in Stealth
  3899 | D:3      | Engulfed by a cloud of flame

thanks Xom!

[Nivim]

Currently poring over the tips on CrawlWiki. There's gotta be something I'm not doing that I'm missing.

Yes; you're not using the knowledge bots, and, just as important, you were missing this little entry. I wouldn't put it like they do in the link from the link in that link, but it's the right sentiment. The wiki can be worse than your own uninformed guesswork.

[freeformschooler]

Currently poring over the tips on CrawlWiki. There's gotta be something I'm not doing that I'm missing.

Yes; you're not using the knowledge bots, and, just as important, you were missing this little entry. I wouldn't put it like they do in the link from the link in that link, but it's the right sentiment. The wiki can be worse than your own uninformed guesswork.

Huh.

That explains all the references to the old skill system and armor mechanics.

Meanwhile, I've finally got a character up to XL 10 and D:8 with no signs of stopping due to all the help I've gotten here. Found a +7,+5 Falchion of Flaming death on D:7, so everything's going well so far. Thanks so much, guys.