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[G-Flex]

Trog's Hand is awesome. I use it earlygame to save myself from poison, later for those guys that like to invoke some elements on me.

Out of curiosity, what does Trog's Hand have to do with elemental damage?

[Rex_Nex]

Trog's Hand is awesome. I use it earlygame to save myself from poison, later for those guys that like to invoke some elements on me.

Out of curiosity, what does Trog's Hand have to do with elemental damage?

Oops! My mistake! I was under the impression Magic Resist helped resist elemental damage in some way; some wiki-foo proved me wrong! You learn something new every day

[ChairmanPoo]

vampire alchemist/vampire stalker (your choice) of kikubaaqua. Far better than vampire necro, IMO. (evaporate potions of blood = 33% chance of fireball)

[G-Flex]

Alchemist? Do you mean Transmuter?

Evap is pretty good though, yeah. I'm not sure how vampire transmuters fare later in the game, though, when they have to rely on other things like transformations.

[Rex_Nex]

So, I finally got my head wrapped around how XP works... except for one thing. Turning off all my skills should let my pool build up, right? Then why does fighting still drain XP? I probably have my head wrapped around the wrong ideas.

[beorn080]

Even if you turn off a skill, you still practice it occasionally, just at a much reduced rate.

[Rex_Nex]

Oh, that makes much more sense. That would explain how you can "learn" skills that you don't initially have.

[G-Flex]

Oh, that makes much more sense. That would explain how you can "learn" skills that you don't initially have.

Not really. Those skills, I believe, are turned on by default. I could be wrong, though.

[Rex_Nex]

I don't think so, in fact, you cant even turn on skills you dont initially have. You have to get the first rank in the skill before you can turn it on.

This is going by the .9 trunk, though. I am 90% sure it is the same in the stable release.

[G-Flex]

I don't think so, in fact, you cant even turn on skills you dont initially have. You have to get the first rank in the skill before you can turn it on.

What makes you think they're turned off by default when you can't even see them on the skill screen?

[Graven]

Yes, turned off skills train at... 1/4 rate, I think? It should be in the bots.

fake edit : Oh wait, the wiki states off skills only have 1/4 CHANCE to be trained. That would suggest they still train at the same RATE however. Adjusted for aptitudes, of course. Hmmm. I couldn't find anything in the bots, too, since the wiki isn't the most reliable source ever. Perhaps you could try asking in the official forums? Perhaps I should try, even, because I'm interested too x]

 And the XP is not really that hard - two pools, one for levelling up, one for training skills. Every creature killed gives you equal amounts in both pools. From there on, using abilities, or hitting stuff, or sneaking, or wearing armor has a chance to train your skill.

And this is the extent of my knowledge :]

And yes, I think unlearnt skills do train at the rate for "on" skill - verifying that, however, would require some intricate tracking way beyond my abilities in 1 a.m. on the day of an important exam

[Rex_Nex]

I don't think so, in fact, you cant even turn on skills you dont initially have. You have to get the first rank in the skill before you can turn it on.

What makes you think they're turned off by default when you can't even see them on the skill screen?

You can. Hitting * (At least in tiles) will show ALL your skills. Those unlearned are showed in darkened text, the same as off skills.

Thanks for the info Graven. You are probably right when it comes to unlearned skills. I understand XP now , I'll probably ask that question on the forums for us, too

[ChairmanPoo]

Evap is pretty good though, yeah. I'm not sure how vampire transmuters fare later in the game, though, when they have to rely on other things like transformations.

They're horrible at transformations, because they can only transform (or remain transformed) while on satiation states, which last little by themselves, and even less when you're burning nutrition points on polyspells.

The idea behind doing a vampire transmuter instead of a vampire necro is that you switch to necro (through kiku gifts) early on anyway, but you start off with better fighting skills and a couple of decent transmutation spells.

[G-Flex]

I don't think so, in fact, you cant even turn on skills you dont initially have. You have to get the first rank in the skill before you can turn it on.

What makes you think they're turned off by default when you can't even see them on the skill screen?

You can. Hitting * (At least in tiles) will show ALL your skills. Those unlearned are showed in darkened text, the same as off skills.

I assumed they're shown in darkened text simply because you don't have them. It's hard to make a judgment there. I'm trying to get an answer from IRC, though.

[edit]
Got an answer. At level 0, skills train as if they're turned on, but they take twice as much XP to get to level 1 as it would take to go from level 1 to 2.

They're horrible at transformations, because they can only transform (or remain transformed) while on satiation states, which last little by themselves, and even less when you're burning nutrition points on polyspells.

How is playing a somewhat-satiated vampire any harder than playing a non-starving normal race, though?

The idea behind doing a vampire transmuter instead of a vampire necro is that you switch to necro (through kiku gifts) early on anyway, but you start off with better fighting skills and a couple of decent transmutation spells.

Yeah, Kiku makes it easy as hell to get necromancy up even if you start as a different spellcasting class.

[Quote]

To be completely honest, Kiku just makes the /game/ easier. Necromancy with Kiku is useful in literally every single situation. Tomb is a joke w/ Necromutation + Kiku (hell you could probably do it without Necromut.) Half of the Hells biggest threats (fucking tormentors) disappear with him. It's just a breeze if you can get a Necromancer of his pansy caster feet.