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[Niveras]

I just thought about something with Ashenzari.

You gain piety by exploring, preferably with cursed items. But you can wipe your map with shift-x, ctrl-f. Does that mean you can scum Ash piety? I'm guessing not: that even though you wiped the map, the area still counts as explored. If not, that's a fair exploit for the religion, though functionally not all that huge unless you're transferring a lot of experience (especially with the higher piety cost of experience transfer).

The answer appears to be no, you can't scum for piety this way. Tried on a mummy, and either Ash's piety decay outpaced my piety gain from exploring d:2 with 3 cursed items equipped, or explored areas aren't counted toward piety even if you clear the map.

[Niveras]

Starting a new character after my last KoAe decided he looked good spitted on Asmodeus' staff.

Think I'll go with a MuAe this time. Ae just to start with, and because Tornado is OP at the end game, and mummy so I can take the pace a little slower. My difficulty is in deciding religion. I'd really like to end up with Ash for the experience gain, because Mummies will need all the experience they can get, but I am having trouble deciding whether to pick her up ASAP or go with Sif Muna for a while to get a nice selection of books (and to abuse channeling a little in the meanwhile). Any opinions? My kobold casters usually go with Vehumet for his books and for the extra range on conjurations.

[Candlejack]

Dungeon Crawl needs more logical procedural generation. Right now it just spews a ton of random crap at you and expects you make something from it.

[nenjin]

I agree, somewhat. I feel like the combination of totally random halls, rooms and such, combined with the way groups are spawned, could be improved. A better designed dungeon leads to more thoughtfully arranged groups, IMO. I'd just like more procedurally generated dungeons from an aesthetic standpoint; doors at the ends of walls and the like are kind of sloppy looking.

Although I imagine someone will say "but I like that!"

[beorn080]

I agree, somewhat. I feel like the combination of totally random halls, rooms and such, combined with the way groups are spawned, could be improved. A better designed dungeon leads to more thoughtfully arranged groups, IMO. I'd just like more procedurally generated dungeons from an aesthetic standpoint; doors at the ends of walls and the like are kind of sloppy looking.

Although I imagine someone will say "but I like that!"

I think they are going that way, since they are actively trying to get as many jigsaw minivault type areas into the generation as possible. It used to be you could go to the temple before you found a "non random feature", now you'll typically see 2-3 odd areas. The more minivaults they add, and by minivaults I mean the areas like the fire cross that everyone has seen, the less the random hallways will be an issue.

[Robsoie]

I too have noticed more and more "landmarks" since i started playing Crawl, more than breaking the odd randomness (a door near a single tile of wall in the middle of a giant open space by example) it really helps to give more "personnality" to the dungeon, as it is improving the atmosphere (hall of statues, castles, forts, crystal maze, etc...).

Additionally with each version, the ever increased diversity of graphic from the tiles version really add another layer to the immersion, those flesh walls (look like some classic Doom end level) in some part of Pandemonium or some special wizard lab, those creepy crypts with bones , the snow in those Ice Caves, the jungles in Lair etc...
It makes the game world much more alive.

Crawl has really improved in getting an identity with the years, it's much better than the "generic random dungeon crawling" it was originally.

[beorn080]

I think giving the minivaults tags that affect the rest of the level would be a good start. For instance, crazy coot with staff of chaos unique has a little cottage in a forest. The rest of the level should have trees scattered about, maybe walls the same color as the Lair, and more bias given in RNG to natural creatures of appropriate depth. Maybe just have it call the Lair level generator with the minivault placed inside somewhere. Have several Lair themed vaults, maybe only one or two a game at various depths, as well as maybe several Orc themed minvaults, and you'd greatly increase variety in the main dungeon.

[Phreak]

Eh found this thread ages ago, might as well post now:

[Soadreqm]

My deep elf ice elementalist is doing pretty awesome. So awesome, in fact, that I am seriously contemplating doing at least some of the extended endgame. Crazy, I know. It's just that getting a character to the point where you can reliably cast necromutation is so much work that once you have one, it feels like a waste to just take the orb and run without exploring the wonders of the Tomb of the Ancients and the Pandemonium and what have you. Not that I've even entered Zot yet. :/

I guess I'm going to clear Zot and see if I still feel like potentially dying at the hands of sphinxes or fiends or whatever.

Is training melee combat skills a complete waste of time when you're a powerful caster? It's just that I've found a whole bunch of pretty nice weapons and it feels like a waste not using them.

[Robsoie]

I can't say for endgame, but having a great weapon early helped my Vampire Necromancer survival a -very- lot.

For once, Crawl gave me such thing early, as on the 7th floor of the Dungeon

Code: [Select]

the +6,+12 mace "Hydra's Funeral" (weapon) {speed, +Blink rC+}
   (You found it on level 7 of the Dungeon)   
   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long, but cause less damage.
   
   
   It protects you from cold.
   It lets you blink.

In Lair, my Vampire Necromancer, after of course training the mace/ skill has been able to take on an elephant alone in a corridor without even needing to fall back behind my undead troopers.
Usually, an elephant is a monster that, at the level a vampire is when it encounter in Lair, is too strong to take on close combat.

Confirms that finding good equipment early increase a very lot the survival of a character.

That and Kikubaaqudgha "send corpses" mixed with Animate Dead has proved its worth at saving my character from certain death multiple time up to now.

Especially in Labyrinth, i understood that i was not going to win in hand to hand fighting as my health was going down quickly, so i went to Bat form, went away and requested several corpses.
After animating them all, poor Minotaur, he couldn't do anything against the several Hill Giants that assaulted him.

[baruk]

 My High Elf Ice Elementalist has now collected the decaying and barnacled runes, I also cleared the crypt for the first time, netting my first ever ancient lich kill (silence made it fairly straightforward).
 I've been playing it crusader-style, meleeing whenever I can, up to and including stone giants and dragons (blademasters may be a step too far). Nukes get saved for equipment-destroyers, mutators and rotters. I haste up for anyone tough, like Norris, alternating between orb of destruction and throw icicle has ground them up effectively so far.
 The necronomicon turned up, but I'm a long way away from even being able to read it yet. Other projects include getting ice storm and controlled blink castable. I could also drop Vehumet for Nemelex and train up my evocations to get my Staff of Wucad Mu usable. Lots of ideas..
 Next on the agenda - a Dr. Feelgood-inspired abyss jaunt, Elf:7 and Vault:8.
 Here's a skills/spells dump:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

frankhovis the Eclecticist (HEIE)              Turns: 180501

 HP 130/164       AC 28     Str 10      Exp: 25/1064414 (0), need: 61335
MP  45/45        EV 39     Int 31      God: Vehumet [******]
Gold 3233        SH 23     Dex 17      Spells: 14 memorised,  3 levels left

  Skills:
+ Level 13 Fighting
- Level 10 Short Blades
 + Level 13 Long Blades
 - Level 5 Staves
 - Level 3 Armour
 - Level 15 Dodging
 + Level 11 Stealth
 + Level 11 Stabbing
 + Level 10 Shields
 + Level 7 Traps & Doors
 + Level 18 Spellcasting
 + Level 15 Conjurations
 - Level 15 Enchantments
 + Level 2 Summonings
 + Level 2 Necromancy
 + Level 7 Translocations
 + Level 2 Transmutations
 + Level 15 Ice Magic
 - Level 8 Air Magic
 - Level 1 Poison Magic
 + Level 4 Evocations

 Your Spells              Type           Power          Success   Level
a - Haste                 Ench           ########.      Excellent   6
b - Invisibility          Ench           ########.      Excellent   6
c - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..     Excellent   7
d - Throw Icicle          Ice/Conj       ########.      Excellent   4
e - Ozocubu's Armour      Ice/Ench       ########..     Perfect     3
f - Silence               Air/Ench       #######...     Excellent   5
g - Blink                 Tloc           N/A            Excellent   2
h - Extension             Ench           ########..     Excellent   5
i - Phase Shift           Tloc           #######...     Excellent   5
j - Selective Amnesia     Ench           N/A            Excellent   4
k - Deflect Missiles      Air/Ench       #######...     Excellent   6
l - Fulsome Distillation  Trmt/Necr      N/A            Excellent   1
m - Ensorcelled Hibernat  Ice/Ench       #######        Perfect     2
n - Apportation           Tloc           #######...     Excellent   1

[Mr.Person]

I think giving the minivaults tags that affect the rest of the level would be a good start. For instance, crazy coot with staff of chaos unique has a little cottage in a forest. The rest of the level should have trees scattered about, maybe walls the same color as the Lair, and more bias given in RNG to natural creatures of appropriate depth. Maybe just have it call the Lair level generator with the minivault placed inside somewhere. Have several Lair themed vaults, maybe only one or two a game at various depths, as well as maybe several Orc themed minvaults, and you'd greatly increase variety in the main dungeon.

That's actually not a bad idea and completely possible right now using only the vault code. Better still, it's really, really simple. One of Crawl's many additions were these things called "serial vaults", which was basically telling the vault generator code to generate a bunch of themed vaults when another one was generated. It's how you get those glass wall levels or statue levels you'll find quite often in trunk. The actual scripting for them is kind of confusing to me, but hey, one can always just copy-and-paste from another set.

[Soadreqm]

114505 | Abyss   | Got an abyssal rune of Zot



I don't see why you're complaining about the main dungeon being too boring when the ABYSS exists. I ended up walling myself in with a tomb card, wearing an amulet of Stasis and casting necromutation to stay off the food clock, and then waiting a few thousand turns to make the rune appear faster. Yeah, I guess it's optional, but that's hardly an excuse.

[nenjin]

I think they are going that way, since they are actively trying to get as many jigsaw minivault type areas into the generation as possible. It used to be you could go to the temple before you found a "non random feature", now you'll typically see 2-3 odd areas. The more minivaults they add, and by minivaults I mean the areas like the fire cross that everyone has seen, the less the random hallways will be an issue.

Personally, I'd like to see generation start from vaults and work backwards. Then I think you can do things like add stairwells randomly but that have some respect for distance and pathing, and hallways used to connect things rather than fill space. I dunno, I guess I want to feel Crawl floors are designed with more purpose.

But I agree the game has improved a lot even since I started playing it. The last major tile overhaul did wonders.

[Soadreqm]

My DEIE died on Tomb:3. Well, whatever. It was a fun game, and I only have myself to blame for going to the Tomb in the first place.