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[UristMcDwarf]

Dang, I hate the orcs i the early game.

[Antioch]

Yup.

Easiest way to notice it is probably from a troll's metabolism increasing, though. Had that happen a number of times, generally a game-ender.

That seems rather odd, since they already have fast metabolisme 3, are you sure it wasn't because of a ring of hunger or regeneration?

[Frumple]

Hrm. May have been an ogre or centaur or somethin', I guess. Either way, it happens, yes.

[Leafsnail]

That said, looking at the table of spells, I note two things: Earth doesn't have many spells, and several of them have been cut on top of that, and Divination seems nearly redundant as a school of magic.

Considering it was completely removed from the game... yeah, it's pretty redundant.

[zchris13]

Did you guys hear about the big that makes game durations shorter than they should be? Quick, speedrun some SpEn for the fastest win ever while you still can!

[Mr.Person]

Species mutations can't be removed, but they can have their level increased. In other words, Centaus can't lose their fast metabolism, but it can be made faster. This applies to Demonspawn mutations too, by the way, but is less relevant since their mutations always go up to level 3 by the time they hit level 27.

[Tinker Thinker]

Hm. The only ones I can think of where that's an improvement are:
Demonspawn (always better, I think the closest they have to a "negative" mutation is +1 -1 stuff)
Kobolds (Saprovore 1 -> 2 -X> 3)
Ogre (Saprovore ; tough skin)
Minotaur (Horns 3)

There's probably some I'm missing, but most of them are on the cusp of misfortune from that.

[Mr.Person]

Sapravore is an on-off switch, either you have it or you don't. Sapravore lets you eat rotten meat, Carnivore is the one that lets you eat meat even when not hungry.

Centaurs can get Speed 3. Deep Dwarves can upgrade their passive magic mapping. Kenku and Ghouls might be able to get upgrades, but I'm not sure. Nagas can get Slow 3 (that's more of a downgrade unless you're a Chei worshipper).

[forsaken1111]

Kenku and Ghouls might be able to get upgrades, but I'm not sure.

Aren't undead unable to gain any mutations, and simply rot instead?

[Tinker Thinker]

Yeah, all undead are absolutely fixed, and just rot. This isn't an issue for Ghouls and Vampires, but Mummies can get into deep shit doing that.

Also, Deep Dwarf magic mapping happens anyway, like the Demonspawn. I also thought there were layers of Saprovore, because Ghouls seem to be way more psyched by it than Kobolds. Kenku do get flight and such, but I think most of their stuff is already maxed.

[forsaken1111]

Can a vampire gain mutations while 'alive' and engorged on blood?

[Tinker Thinker]

I wish.

Mainly, it doesn't count because "alive" just means "dude heartbeat and everything, tell me I am not alive. Hear that blood sloshing around? Totally the heart." The vampire isn't actually alive, just passing for it.


Edit: found my answers

Edit: But not before someone replied. >.<

[Frumple]

I've run into a problem - I have a demonspawn with Slow Metabolism 3 (not naturally, of course), but the guy still chews through food like an ogre. His most expensive spell is honeycomb level hunger, which I understood to be a step above strawberry.

Which, now that I think about it. . .

Okay, reading the wiki that makes a lot more sense now - honeycombs are way more valuable than they have any right to be, but I still can't get a fix on the order listed in the spell menu
From lowest to highest:
Strawberry

Honeycomb

Ration

Casting a spell lowers your nutrition by an amount varying with the spell's level: (1) 50, (2) 95, (3) 160, (4) 250, (5) 350, (6) 550, (7) 700, ( 860, (9) 1000. This amount is lowered by the product of your Intelligence and Spellcasting. (For rods, your Evocation skill * 10, with a minimum of 5.)
Display messages in 0.6: Sultana is >= 1. Strawberry is >= 15, Choko is >= 41, Honeycomb is >= 121, Ration is >= 401.

[G-Flex]

Can a vampire gain mutations while 'alive' and engorged on blood?

From what I remember from the wiki, yes. However, the wiki is often wrong. There's a sub-page in the "A" screen for vampires that tells you what you can do/get at your current blood level, so you could check there.

Sapravore is an on-off switch, either you have it or you don't. Sapravore lets you eat rotten meat, Carnivore is the one that lets you eat meat even when not hungry.

Nope. Saprovore has 3 levels, although the third is only applicable to ghouls.

[Frumple]

Just tested vampire mutations via wizard mode. You can get mutations while alive, full, and satiated but nothing below that. However, full and satiated both have a chance of failing and doing the standard undead mutation rot thing. This is in latest downloadable windows binary.

Actually, yanno' what...

Spoiler: Screenshot of vampire hunger levels and effects (click to show/hide)

There yeh go.