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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 1683314 times)

Moron

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3645 on: September 17, 2010, 07:34:40 am »
Ok, I'm now addicted to this game after hearing about it on here..

So, does anyone have any advice on the best way to play Kenku? They look good on paper due to their many good aptitudes, but I have difficulty getting them off the ground ( ;)), as it seems their different aptitudes etc don't work all that well together.

For example, they are good at almost all combat skills, but their low hitpoints and armour restrictions make them too fragile to stick around and fight much, and they are very bad at the magical skills like enchantments and transmutations that could enhance their fighting.

On the other hand, if I try to play a pure spellcaster, I feel I am 'wasting' their good combat abilities, and essentially playing like a weaker Deep Elf with less MP and worse all-round magic.

When I try hybrid reaver-type characters, I seem to end up with neither the long-range hitting power to safely deal with dangerous monsters at long distance nor the melee survivability to soften them up and then try to kill them hand to hand.

Overall, even though they are mentioned as relatively easy on the wiki, I'm finding them much harder than some of the races that are considered 'challenging' like Draconians and Demigods, so any advice would be appreciated.
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DJ

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3646 on: September 17, 2010, 08:13:22 am »
They have good summoning aptitude, support yourself with summons.
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Quote from: Sunken on May 19, 2009, 12:51:32 pm
Quote from: Muz on May 19, 2009, 08:37:52 am
Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

ChairmanPoo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3647 on: September 17, 2010, 10:24:18 am »
Convert to Fedhas, use the rain trick as soon as you can fly
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Quote from: fqllve on September 08, 2011, 11:56:27 am
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Toady Two

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3648 on: September 17, 2010, 11:03:11 am »
I'm trying out Ogre Hunters recently. My usual Troll Hunter of Nemelex didn't seem like much of a challenge up to the point when he suddenly died. I know Ogres are usually worse in every way compared to Troll and I feel that the number of close calls increased dramatically when I made the switch.

Is there any advantage Ogres have over Trolls when it comes to being Hunters. They can both use awesome weapons like boulders and giant club and trolls are more sturdy and thus better. I'm thinking about worshiping either Lugonu or getting Translocation that would let my Ogre get out of melee range. What god should I choose if I want to go the Semi-Warper Path. Trog is out of the question since he hates magic. Maybe Nemelex again for the summons? Or Okawaru for Haste and more ammo(I don't know if I can hint him into giving me large rocks).
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baruk

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3649 on: September 17, 2010, 11:09:27 am »
 A recent Kenku necromancer I had seemed to benefit a lot from a few levels in unarmed combat, I could tear most things apart in melee, especially after softening them up with a few spells. Just don't be like me and cast Vampiric Draining on Grinder..
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zchris13

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3650 on: September 17, 2010, 11:33:51 am »
Does the spell poison weapon work with blade hands?
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beorn080

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3651 on: September 17, 2010, 11:37:09 am »
I think the biggest difference between Ogres and Trolls, aside from the starting mutations, is that Ogres have a +2 spellcasting aptitude, as opposed to a trolls -4. Granted, they still suck with everything else, but you can just pour points into spellcasting and be able to cast butterflies and a few other low end utility spells easily enough.

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Strange guy

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3652 on: September 17, 2010, 11:39:05 am »
zchris- I don't think any of the weapon enchantments work with unarmed, so no.
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DJ

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3653 on: September 17, 2010, 11:51:48 am »
Oh god, imagine flaming blade hands. Would be awesomest thing ever.
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Quote from: Sunken on May 19, 2009, 12:51:32 pm
Quote from: Muz on May 19, 2009, 08:37:52 am
Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

Cue magma.
Ah, the Magma Carta...

Dr.Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3654 on: September 17, 2010, 11:59:27 am »
Quote from: Moron on September 17, 2010, 07:34:40 am
Ok, I'm now addicted to this game after hearing about it on here..

So, does anyone have any advice on the best way to play Kenku? They look good on paper due to their many good aptitudes, but I have difficulty getting them off the ground ( ;)), as it seems their different aptitudes etc don't work all that well together.

For example, they are good at almost all combat skills, but their low hitpoints and armour restrictions make them too fragile to stick around and fight much, and they are very bad at the magical skills like enchantments and transmutations that could enhance their fighting.

On the other hand, if I try to play a pure spellcaster, I feel I am 'wasting' their good combat abilities, and essentially playing like a weaker Deep Elf with less MP and worse all-round magic.

When I try hybrid reaver-type characters, I seem to end up with neither the long-range hitting power to safely deal with dangerous monsters at long distance nor the melee survivability to soften them up and then try to kill them hand to hand.

Overall, even though they are mentioned as relatively easy on the wiki, I'm finding them much harder than some of the races that are considered 'challenging' like Draconians and Demigods, so any advice would be appreciated.

Reavers are inferior conjurers. Kenkus are hard to keep alive in the beginning due to their lousy HP. The easiest way to play them is either as a EV-based fighter or as a hybrid.

Recommended classes:

- Fire Elementalist (Sticky Flame and Conjure Flame)
- Monk (they have a beak and talons)
- Crusader (best hybrid class)
- Gladiator (simple EV-based fighting class)

Quote from: Toady Two on September 17, 2010, 11:03:11 am
I'm trying out Ogre Hunters recently. My usual Troll Hunter of Nemelex didn't seem like much of a challenge up to the point when he suddenly died. I know Ogres are usually worse in every way compared to Troll and I feel that the number of close calls increased dramatically when I made the switch.

Is there any advantage Ogres have over Trolls when it comes to being Hunters. They can both use awesome weapons like boulders and giant club and trolls are more sturdy and thus better. I'm thinking about worshiping either Lugonu or getting Translocation that would let my Ogre get out of melee range. What god should I choose if I want to go the Semi-Warper Path. Trog is out of the question since he hates magic. Maybe Nemelex again for the summons? Or Okawaru for Haste and more ammo(I don't know if I can hint him into giving me large rocks).

Ogre hunters get pretty good once you get to the mid-game. I lost one on Zot:5 (in front of the Orb :-[), but that was my fault. Ogres have more HP and better spell casting aptitudes. Trog and Okawaru are good choices for an OgHu. Unfortunately, neither gods give large rocks as gifts.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 12:15:21 pm by Dr.Feelgood »
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huhu

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3655 on: September 17, 2010, 05:14:58 pm »
Darned. I found myself back at playing DCSS after a long while, all because of this thread.  :) It seems like it has become significantly harder since I last played (maybe 0.4 or so). All statistical proof claimed that SpEn is the easiest class in 0.7.1, and after about a hundred tries I seem to be getting further into the caves with them...

This is my best run by far. First time grabbing a rune, now sitting at D:27 and considering how to get two more runes and finally the Orb. Well, D:26 if we'd like to be more accurate, but downstairs is cleaned. Got the rune from Shoals, which was a ridiculously easy conquest with the Invisibility and Flight spells. No one could resist Ensorcelled Hibernation down there either. Victory danced Spellcasting pretty consistently when I didn't have any other idea, even dumped a couple Exp cards into it. Traps & Doors is also another 'new' skill for me, having always neglected it. It works wonders.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edit: I suddenly wanted to branch to Necromancy, having found the Necronomicon (and a gazillion other books just lying around, most of them copies of each other). I don't know if I'll ever get it high enough to cast Haunt or Necromutation, and I don't know if I really even need them.

Oh, here are the books. I can't quite decide on what to learn, so I leave all of them just stashed around.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 05:36:40 pm by huhu »
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Frumple

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3656 on: September 17, 2010, 06:38:06 pm »
Bugger necromancy (though you've certainly got a lot of it already...). Go vacuum a few levels (if you haven't already) and spam those plain decks to get better ones. You're basically running the exact same thing I did for my first win. Go spew card summons at snake:5, stack five that legendary dungeon deck for trowel cards, stack five/draw three that change deck into oblivion (Keep XP + helix cards), then take your hopefully new set of legendary summoning decks into the vaults. Wear that buckler, keep it worn, and turn dodging back on.

Haunt would be pretty awesome if you can get necromutation too; the sickness is especially annoying for low-hp critters. You'll probably want to pick up extension from somewhere for that, though. Better players could advise on that particular strategy.

Anyway, as long as you're careful about the guardian snakes and top tier naga critters, whose name I forget, you're set for snake:5. Airstrike would let you clear out the hall of blades, I think, which would probably be pretty decent for XP -- and hopefully a better weapon. Keep an eye out for Nikola, his sabre would probably be pretty helpful. You probably want to dump the scimitar -- it's a long blade. Find a nice sabre or quickblade. Go clean out elf, you can probably handle everything except the bottom without much trouble.

All I can think of at the moment. You're bloody close to set for a orb run, especially if you're using one of the versions before they put statues into the orb room to block apportation. Keep an eye out for summon butterflies; that would seriously increase your chance of survival in general, and in zot:5 especially.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3657 on: September 17, 2010, 09:47:17 pm »
Ok.  No character of mine could've dealt with 6 hydras on L:8.  Except this SpEn.

He even took on two at once by turning invisibility then sending them to sleep.

EDIT: Room full of elephant statues?  Cruel.
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Frumple

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3658 on: September 17, 2010, 10:25:50 pm »
Dunno if there's a second end vault with elephant statues, but beware killing the anaconda if it's the one I'm thinking about. That's one hell of a nasty trick they pulled with that one, if you've not got solid escape methods. Sounds like you got something with hydras involved, though.

The spriggan stalker I've been running off and on the last few days has been embarrassing hydras by killing them entirely via magic dart. Poor things are kinda' non-issues versus spriggan movement speed.
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Mr.Person

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3659 on: September 17, 2010, 11:59:54 pm »
@Huhu: Learn necromutation? Why? One of the effects of a legendary metamorphasis card, which is in decks of changes, defense, and war, is lichform. Learn extension, boom, you're good to go.

You can go ahead and forget resist poison once you've cleared out whichever of Swamp and Snake you've got, assuming you've already cleared out Hive and Lair. You got the ring for the occasional golden dragon or whatever.
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