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[Kagus]

You know what ogres also have?  A surprisingly good aptitude for spellcasting (unless that's been changed very recently).

All the specific magic schools suck as far as aptitudes go, but spellcasting itself levels quite fast.  Ogre enchanters aren't actually that bad, you get a spellcaster who admittedly needs a bit of help early on (due to low success rates on spellcasting), but you know what makes giant spiked clubs really nice?  Enchantments like brands and berserking, even corona helps by letting you hit stuff more often.  And you're not going to be wearing armor anyways, so you don't have to think about all the great armor you're passing up as a combat type.  You don't have to worry about getting in range of most early-stage magekillers because you start out naturally strong and you've got loads of HP for a magic user.

No, they're not fantastic, but ogre enchanters are worth looking at before you sneeze at the entire race.  Just focus on your spellcasting skill.

[ChairmanPoo]

To clarify my former statement: crusaders in general ARE hard early on, but their starting book is likely one of the best in the game. (Regeneration, berserk rage, haste, missile protection....)

[RandomNumberGenerator]

Huh.

Getting bored of playing fragile casters that always die in the first couple levels, I tried out a human paladin. Things were going pretty good; found a nice +2 Greatsword and a +1 Helmet of See Invisibility early on, good supply of food, stuff like that. Then I went down to D:2 and found Terrence waiting for me. Normally he's not too difficult, about on par with a hobgoblin. This time he was generated with a wand of confusion however... So he zaps me with it about 10 times until it's apparently out of charges, then moves in on me while I'm staggering around. He's dealing 1-2 damage per hit, and I know this confuson will wear off eventually, so as long as I don't run into anything really dangerous...

Oh hey there, Jessica. How are you doing. Come to throw some magic darts at me? So the situation just went from annoying and mildly problematic to possibly dangerous. I'm still confused and luckily end up staggering into a hallway so Jessica can't use her magic darts since Terrence is in the way. I end up staggering down the hallway...

OH HAI DERE SIGMUND!

Yes. I was fighting three uniques. At the same time. On level 2. I did not survive. The whole time I was thinking "I really wish I had Mephetic Cloud" so back to casters for me, or at least hybrids.

[Puck]

Maybe I'm readin your post wrong, but to me this sounds as if you didnt GTFO at the first (or even second) possible moment, which probably would have saved your hide.

But your paladin experience... well, thats usually my caster experience...

[DJ]

If Terrence was doing that little damage you should've just stood there and waited for confusion to wear off.

[Kagus]

Maybe I'm readin your post wrong, but to me this sounds as if you didnt GTFO at the first (or even second) possible moment, which probably would have saved your hide.

But your paladin experience... well, thats usually my caster experience...

10 blasts from a wand of confusion.  It's somewhat tricky to flee from something when you're running in circles.

[Puck]

I shoot an unidentified wand at Sigmund. It turns him invisible. Sigmund lights me on fire while I flail around trying to kill him.

Am I making a beginner's mistake thinking that it would probably make sense to turn yourself invisible too, in such a situation? Or was it a wand of random thingies?

10 blasts from a wand of confusion.  It's somewhat tricky to flee from something when you're running in circles.

I thought it had worn off soon enough.

[RandomNumberGenerator]

10 blasts from a wand of confusion.  It's somewhat tricky to flee from something when you're running in circles.

I thought it had worn off soon enough.

Nope. I was still confused when Sigmund separated my head from my shoulders. So I was trying to run away, I just couldn't do it very well.

EDIT: Missed this,

If Terrence was doing that little damage you should've just stood there and waited for confusion to wear off.

I didn't realize you could do that. Good to know for next time, I guess.

[Mandaril]

Okay, this is THE weirdest thing ever. Something hits me. Something does not do any damage. Something hits me and does some damage. There is some creature going around and hitting me, but I can't seem to be hitting IT, however I try. It's like it's just not there. But when I shoot a mephitic cloud, it says "it engulfes something". I shoot random Bolt of Fire's (lvl 6 spell) around but it seems to do nothing. I do not have any tools to see invisible things.

Do you have any tips on how to proceed? I can escape from this, but the thing is near some stairs up and I'm afraid if I ever need to come this way again it'll be a nasty disturbance. For now I am not in danger of dying (my AC is 13, EV 20, ~10 healing potions left (48/48 hp) and I'm a wizard), but if that thing keeps going on doing stuff like that it'll eat my survival tools away.

It just doesn't seem to come out of invisibility, it's like its invisibility is permanent. I'm not going to continue until I have an idea how to kill that thing.

[forsaken1111]

That would be an invisible creature that moves like the bats. Get see invisible, or just leave that level. I forget the name of it, looks like a weird eye with tentacles on the tile version.

[DJ]

Sounds like Unseen Horror. Spoiler alert on that link, of course.

[Mandaril]

Ahh, problem solved! I did what I do when killing bats with melee characters: I back a few times and then attack. But instead of a melee attack, I shoot a Bolt of Fire. I managed to hit it and to kill it! Didn't see what it was tho, just got a "You feel a bit more experienced".

Thanks for the advice!

*edit* Pfft, found a scroll of identify nearby and managed to identify my jewelry, one of unidentified rings was "see invisible"

[Mr.Person]

Actually seeing unseen horrors only matters if you're out in the open.

[forsaken1111]

I've really only found them annoying mostly, they never did all that much damage in my experience.

[Frumple]

Soo... suggestions. What does this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.7.0 character file.

Jill the Blocker (Mountain Dwarf Fighter)          Turns: 81817, Time: 06:42:21

HP 170/170 (177) AC 36     Str 32      Exp: 19/349188 (0), need: 29761
MP  22/22        EV  9     Int 13      God: Okawaru [*****.]
Gold 6070        SH 33     Dex 14      Spells:  3 memorised, 19 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + +   See Invis. : +   a - +3,+2 dwarf morningstar (protect)
Res.Cold  : + + +   Warding    : .   d - +7 gold dragon armour
Life Prot.: . . .   Conserve   : .   i - +0 shield "Fothrapi" {Str+4 Dex+3 Int+4 Cu
Res.Poison: +       Res.Corr.  : .   q - -1 helmet {SInv} {god gift}
Res.Elec. : +       Clarity    : .   C - +0 cloak of Starlight {rElec rC+ EV+4 Stlt
Spirit.Shd: .       Stasis     : .   x - +2 pair of gauntlets
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : .   F - -2 pair of elf boots
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: .   N - amulet of the gourmand {Gourmand}
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .   J - ring of Temperance {Hunger- rPois rF++ rC+
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .   Q - ring of regeneration

@: somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, extremely unstealthy
A: blurry vision 1, Str +2
a: Might, Haste, Renounce Religion


You are on level 6 of the Vaults.
You worship Okawaru.
Okawaru is extremely pleased with you.
You are completely stuffed.

You have visited 10 branches of the dungeon, and seen 51 of its levels.
You have visited 1 Labyrinth.
You have visited 3 portal chambers: volcano, trove, ice cave.

You have collected 10954 gold pieces.
You have spent 2419 gold pieces at shops.
You have used 2485 gold pieces for miscellaneous purposes.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 a - a +3,+2 dwarven morningstar of protection (weapon)
 b - the +5,+4 crossbow of the Beast {speed, MR Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long as usual.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 c - the +5 blowgun "Braewuma" {speed, Stlth++}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 14 of the Dungeon)   
   Attacks with this weapon take half as long as usual.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 g - the +2,+2 hand axe of Ulatoir (quivered) {venom, +Rage}
   (You found it on level 16 of the Dungeon)   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   It lets you go berserk.
 m - a +8,-2 flail of protection
 R - a +3,+1 orcish spiked flail of holy wrath
Missiles
 j - 18 bolts of frost {god gift}
 l - 7 curare-tipped needles
 G - 12 runed bolts {god gift}
 O - 23 runed dwarven bolts
 S - 83 +0 bolts
Armour
 d - a +7 gold dragon armour (worn)
 h - the +1 shield of Purpose {god gift, Str+5 Dex+3 Curse}
   (Okawaru gifted it to you on level 7 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   It affects your strength (+5).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It may recurse itself.
 i - the +0 shield "Fothrapi" (worn) {Str+4 Dex+3 Int+4 Curse}
   (You took it off Wayne on level 16 of the Dungeon)   
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your intelligence (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
   It may recurse itself.
 q - a -1 helmet of see invisible (worn) {god gift}
 x - a +2 pair of gauntlets (worn)
 C - the +0 cloak of Starlight (worn) {rElec rC+ EV+4 Stlth--}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 4 of the Vaults)   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It protects you from cold.
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It makes you much less stealthy.
   A cloak woven of pure light beams.
 F - a -2 pair of elven boots (worn)
 U - the +3 banded mail "Zaagaaw" {rElec MR Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 21 of the Dungeon)   
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It increases your resistance to enchantments.
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 Y - the +3 cloak of Flash {+Lev EV+4}
   (You found it on level 19 of the Dungeon)   
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It lets you levitate.
Magical devices
 s - a wand of frost {zapped: 3}
 z - a wand of disintegration (4)
 E - a wand of hasting (0)
Comestibles
 o - 8 bread rations
 p - 7 honeycombs
 r - a meat ration
Scrolls
 e - 5 scrolls of remove curse
 t - a scroll of blinking
 v - a scroll of teleportation
 M - 2 scrolls of detect curse
 T - a scroll labeled IMOAVA NAIPP {tried}
Jewellery
 f - an uncursed amulet of clarity
 w - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 y - the ring "Narix" {rC++ Int+2}
   (You found it in a treasure trove)   
   [ring of intelligence]
   It affects your intelligence (+2).
   It greatly protects you from cold.
 B - the ring "Xepryphu" {Wiz EV-5 Str+4 Dex+1}
   (You found it on level 15 of the Dungeon)   
   [ring of wizardry]
   It affects your evasion (-5).
   It affects your strength (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+1).
 H - an uncursed amulet of stasis
 J - the ring of Temperance (right hand) {Hunger- rPois rF++ rC+}
   (You found it in an ice cave)   
   [ring of sustenance]
   It greatly protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
   It protects you from poison.
 L - an uncursed amulet of rage
 N - an amulet of the gourmand (around neck) {Gourmand}
 Q - a ring of regeneration (left hand)
 V - an uncursed ring of life protection
 X - the ring "Raziy" {rF+ EV+4 Dex+3}
   (You found it in an ice cave)   
   [ring of protection from fire]
   It affects your evasion (+4).
   It affects your dexterity (+3).
 Z - an uncursed ring of teleport control
Potions
 k - a potion of magic
 n - a potion of heal wounds
 u - 2 potions of healing
 D - a potion of agility
Books
 A - a tome of Destruction   
 I - a book of the Dragon   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Flight                             Enchantment/Air              4
   Cause Fear                         Enchantment                  5
   Bolt of Fire                       Conjuration/Fire             6
   Dragon Form                        Fire/Transmutation           8
   
 K - a book of Frost   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Freeze                             Ice                          1
   Throw Frost                        Conjuration/Ice              2
   Ozocubu's Armour                   Enchantment/Ice              3
   Throw Icicle                       Conjuration/Ice              4
   Summon Ice Beast                   Ice/Summoning                5
   Freezing Cloud                     Conjuration/Ice/Air          6
   
 P - a book of Clouds   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Evaporate                          Fire/Transmutation           2
   Mephitic Cloud                     Conjuration/Poison/Air       3
   Conjure Flame                      Conjuration/Fire             3
   Poisonous Cloud                    Conjuration/Poison/Air       5
   Freezing Cloud                     Conjuration/Ice/Air          6
   
 W - a book of Party Tricks   
   Spells                             Type                      Level
   Summon Butterflies                 Summoning                    1
   *Apportation                       Translocation                1
   Projected Noise                    Enchantment                  2
   *Blink                             Translocation                2
   Levitation                         Enchantment/Air              2
   Alistair's Intoxication            Transmutation/Poison         4
   


 You have 0 experience left.

   Skills:
 + Level 17 Fighting
 - Level 16 Maces & Flails
 + Level 9 Crossbows
 - Level 2 Throwing
 + Level 16 Armour
 + Level 9 Dodging
 - Level 2 Stealth
 - Level 1 Stabbing
 + Level 20 Shields
 + Level 5 Traps & Doors
 + Level 3 Spellcasting
 + Level 3 Enchantments
 - Level 1 Translocations
 - Level 2 Air Magic
 + Level 4 Invocations
 + Level 4 Evocations


You have 19 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power          Success   Level
a - Apportation           Tloc           #.........     Useless     1
b - Swiftness             Air/Ench       ##........     Useless     2
c - Blink                 Tloc           N/A            Useless     2

need to take on the slime pits? I'm pondering going for a 15 rune for this dude, simply because he's been a thus-far freak of nature. Also just found the amulet of the air in a shop, if that'd help.