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[Vorthon]

It's a positive feedback loop, isn't it?

Hell, I haven't beat it yet, and I actually want it to be made harder. Or at least have a hardcore mode where the Wizard commands are disabled.

Or you could just, you know, not use them?=

But they're so tempting...

[Mr.Person]

...making the training of fighting and spellcasting more tactical...

Am I even supposed to be micromanaging my skills? I find it boring and usually just leave them all on.

Frankly? Yes, you should. You're shooting yourself in the foot by not turning off useless skills.

[Robsoie]

The sooner the devs get rid of that "victory dancing" annoyance the better.
I simply can't imagine anyone finding fun to not play the game but spending insane amount of turns just to get in a safe place, cast a spell repeatedly, rest to get more MP, recast spell repeatedly, rest again, recast .... just to get your very needed skill points that would get you able to cast your desired spell with less chances of miscast, less spell hunger etc...

I think my only successfull online win saw my demigod easily wasting between 25 and 50 % of his total playing turns in "victory dancing" (especially considering demigods have a -1 modifier to every skills, making their victory dancing training even longer and more boring than most other race).
That is making a lot of turns not playing but doing something that does not give any fun to anyone.

I hope their new method will be better than victory dancing, and not a disadvantage though.

About the removal of the HP bonus given by training Fighting, it is not necessarly making the game more difficult ... assuming they'll adapt each monsters and unique HP to that nerf too

Or else it's indeed just increasing game difficulty without anything rewarding the player in compensation.

[DeKaFu]

I turn off skills, but I've never victory-danced. I never realized it was so necessary. Maybe that's why I've never grabbed more than 2 runes...

[Robsoie]

Victory dancing is indeed necessary because in Crawl having good enough skills will make a strong difference between a character dying or surviving.

Having higher skill allow to cast more powerfull spells without miscasting to sometime death situation, will allow to have more magic points (to cast more spellbefore needing to rest) allow to have more health (at least up to Crawl 0.8.1), allow to fight better (more damage, more accuracy, more speed for the weapon).

For a long time i was playing the game without training the skills with victory dancing, but by simply playing , the day i decided to give a try to that "victory dancing" suddenly my character survival rate increased a very lot.

If you can get 2 runes without victory dancing but only spending the xp pool into the skills by normal gameplay fights, that's impressive. With victory dancing, you should get a win then

[G-Flex]

Hmm... do Rings of Regeneration stack?  If so, an octopode with tonnes of them could be pretty hilarious.

I believe the maximum rate of health regen is 1hp/turn.

They stack, and as far as I can tell there's no hard cap on HP regen. You're not likely to find many of them, though. In fact, you're more likely to get higher regen with other characters who can wear troll leather armour.

[drkpaladin]

My first win ever! Troll Chaos Knight of Xom! 4 runes

Read it and despair as he is unleashed upon the surface with the orb.

http://crawl.develz.org/morgues/0.8/DrkPaladin/morgue-DrkPaladin-20110619-170756.txt

I feel like I could almost write a book on this species/class combo.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1744283 DrkPaladin the Heavyweight Champion (level 27, 306/306 HPs)
             Began as a Troll Chaos Knight on June 17, 2011.
             Was a Favourite Plaything of Xom.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 4 runes (of 4 types) on June 19, 2011!
             
             The game lasted 1day 02:40:52 (202785 turns).

DrkPaladin the Heavyweight Champion (TrCK)     Turns: 202785, Time: 1, 02:40:52

HP 306/306       AC 28     Str 31      Exp: 27/3001167 (93509)
MP  30/30        EV 14     Int  9      God: Xom
Gold 13835       SH 53     Dex  8      Spells: 11 memorised, 16 levels left

Res.Fire  : + + .   See Invis. : +      - Unarmed
Res.Cold  : x . .   Warding    : . .  Z - +8 dragon armour
Life Prot.: + + .   Conserve   : .    X - +2 large shield {rPois}
Res.Acid. : . . .   Res.Corr.  : .    (helmet restricted)
Res.Poison: +       Clarity    : +    B - +1 cloak of Dim Light {+Blink rPois rN+}
Res.Elec. : +       Spirit.Shd : .    (gloves unavailable)
Sust.Abil.: . .     Rnd.Telep. : +    (boots unavailable)
Res.Mut.  : .       Ctrl.Telep.: +    T - amulet of clarity
Res.Rott. : .       Levitation : .    x - ring of teleport control
Gourmand  : +       Ctrl.Flight: .    j - ring of Shadows {+Inv rN+ EV+4 Acc-3 SInv

@: very slow, quite resistant to hostile enchantments, unstealthy
A: unfitting armour, claws 3, fangs 1, horns 1, berserk 1, blink 1, blurry
vision 1, deterioration 1, fast metabolism 3, gourmand, regeneration 2,
saprovore 2, screaming 1, electricity resistance, teleportitis 1, tough skin 2,
slowness 2, AC +3, EV +2, Int -5, Dex -1
a: Blink, Renounce Religion, Evoke Blink, Evoke Invisibility


You escaped.
You worshipped Xom.
You were a plaything of Xom.
You were completely stuffed.

You visited 16 branches of the dungeon, and saw 81 of its levels.
You visited the Abyss 16 times.
You visited 1 bazaar.
You visited 4 portal chambers: sewer, trove, ice cave, wizlab.

You collected 22181 gold pieces.
You spent 8350 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand weapons
 A - the +0,+6 dagger of Twuniotu {venom, -TELE rN+}
   (You took it off a draconian knight on level 26 of the Dungeon)   
   
   It poisons the flesh of those it strikes.
   
   
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It prevents most forms of teleportation.
 G - a +5,+6 sacred scourge of holy wrath
 H - a +0,+2 morningstar of distortion
 J - a +5,+5 orcish spear of returning
 R - a +0,+1 demon whip of pain
 V - a +3,+3 crossbow of chaos
Missiles
 i - 8 +7 javelins
 k - 7 +8 javelins (quivered)

[Soadreqm]

Your first win was a chaos knight? Nice!

Hell, I haven't beat it yet, and I actually want it to be made harder. Or at least have a hardcore mode where the Wizard commands are disabled.

There are Wizard commands? Well, they're certainly disabled at the servers. I'm guessing it's a compile option you can set. Wish granted I guess?

[Leafsnail]

And a troll.  And with a -5 int mutation...

Wizard wins are clearly marked as different from non-wizard wins (and are unscored).

[G-Flex]

Your first win was a chaos knight? Nice!

Hell, I haven't beat it yet, and I actually want it to be made harder. Or at least have a hardcore mode where the Wizard commands are disabled.

There are Wizard commands? Well, they're certainly disabled at the servers. I'm guessing it's a compile option you can set. Wish granted I guess?

You can use them in the local versions on the site, and probably online too.

Of course, the game warns you when you use them that you won't make it to high score boards, and honestly, avoiding wizmode as a cheat tool isn't that hard.

I don't really know what Vorthon is talking about, though. Since when do you need a "hardcore mode" to not cheat, and what sense does it make to say the game's too easy while admitting that you cheat constantly?

[drkpaladin]

And a troll.  And with a -5 int mutation...

Wizard wins are clearly marked as different from non-wizard wins (and are unscored).

Well, the -5 int was from morbid curiosity during the later parts of the game at what would happen by running around in mutagenic fog for a couple dozen turns in the abyss.  Stat death nearly resulted lol. I was semi-suicidal after realizing that there wasn't enough food in the dungeon to keep me training up forever to eventually perfect my character.

At the height of that characters power, he had at least one rank in every mutation you could possibly want, and no bad ones.   How did he get rank 9 in stabbing? He was stealthier and faster than a spriggan with over 300hp and scales of every draconian flavor.  The only mutation he didn't have was mutation resistance, and after getting my ass handed to me by the orbs of fire and ancient liches of Zot:5, I decided to level up in the abyss.  After getting my perfect mutation set wrecked in the abyss and zot, but leveling up my skills in the process, I went to my stash where I had painstakingly saved up 60+ mutation potions.  After drinking about 50 of them, I finally had another great set.  I then proceeded to get wrecked by even more orbs of fire.  I limped back to my stash, downed the rest of my mutation potions, got my berserkeritis and teleportitis down to only one rank each, realized that I couldn't keep going forever, despite my best efforts to rebuild my previous strength, my food supplies were slowly attritioning.  Lets just say that I took off my amulet of clarity and let my berserkeritis kill the remaining orbs of fire between me and the Orb.

[Robsoie]

Congratulations on that win, getting anything surviving long as a chaos knight of xom is impressive.

The bad new is that you probably used all your luck for the next few years

[breadbocks]

Can you say Xom's cumming Xomscumming? The guy who's  doing that has the most recorded deaths to axes.

[PCpaste]

I had my most amazing mage yet, just to be engulfed in a cloud of freezing vapour and one-shotted by a miscasted smoke demon...

So much for Sif Muna protecting me from that kind of thing...

I learned a lesson, though... Don't screw with demons, they'll own you in a heartbeat if you miscast.

[nenjin]

Not as bad as playing a Servant of Mahkleb and you botch your Summon Greater Demon of Mahkleb. That's like getting into your Ferrari and having it explode when you turn the key.