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[Mindmaker]

Ran into an Ice Dragon on dungeon level 9.
I'm a level 10 Ogre Berserker and really could use the hide for armor.

Hmm...

Edit: Killed it with berserking Allies, but barely survived. No hide, but nice hoard though.

[DJ]

I only read scroll of teleport and then just bolted away. Well, tried to, he was faster.

Hm, how fast would I be if I had Haste, Berserk, Swiftness, Flight AND Boots of Running on? Could I outrun spells?

[G-Flex]

I only read scroll of teleport and then just bolted away. Well, tried to, he was faster.

Hm, how fast would I be if I had Haste, Berserk, Swiftness, Flight AND Boots of Running on? Could I outrun spells?

Like I said, minimum movement delay is 6. Having Swiftness, Flight and Boots of Running on at the same time is redundant (you only need two as a typical player character). Also, Berserk and Haste don't stack.

[lemon10]

So basically, the minimum movement delay (without haste/berserk) is 6 (between the speed of a 16 and 17 monster, the normal is 10. Boots of running/swiftness subract 2, the speed mutation subracts 2/3/4, swiftness+flight subtracts 4.
That only applies to movment though, not spellcasting/attacking.
Berserk makes all actions take half the time (although their is a maximum attack speed), and stacks with movement bonuses (so you could get 3, or the equivalent of a 33.3 move speed monster, which i think is faster then anything else in the game).
Haste works/worked the same way. BUT in current versions of trunk it is nerfed (due to being far too crazy awesome a spell), and now it only improves your move speed by 1/3 (so you could get 4, or the equivalent of a 25 move speed monster.

Hm, how fast would I be if I had Haste, Berserk, Swiftness, Flight AND Boots of Running on? Could I outrun spells?

With berserk+fly+swiftness, you could outrun a orb of destruction, so yes, partially (although it would catch upand own you when berserk ended and you were slowed).

[G-Flex]

Haste works/worked the same way. BUT in current versions of trunk it is nerfed (due to being far too crazy awesome a spell), and now it only improves your move speed by 1/3 (so you could get 4, or the equivalent of a 25 move speed monster.

Nope, it improves it by 50% (as opposed to the 100% in 0.7).

[lemon10]

Haste works/worked the same way. BUT in current versions of trunk it is nerfed (due to being far too crazy awesome a spell), and now it only improves your move speed by 1/3 (so you could get 4, or the equivalent of a 25 move speed monster.

Nope, it improves it by 50% (as opposed to the 100% in 0.7).

1)     Halves delay of all actions. Yes, it stacks with Swiftness, boots of running, weapons of speed, etc.. Level 6 Ench spell, Okawaru invocation, wand of hasting, or the effect of a potion of speed. Also one of the effects of berserking. Being hasted raises your hunger rate by 5. Considered by many to be the best spell in the game.
 2)     Nerfed in 0.8 trunk, only reduces delay by 1/3. Many late-game monsters' base speeds have been reduced to compensate for this. Berserk speed is unaffected.

Either you or the knowledge bot is wrong on this one, i think the knowledge bot might be correct personally.

[G-Flex]

Wait, I think we're interpreting things differently here. Reducing delay by 1/3 results in an increase in speed of 50%. So we're both saying the same thing, really.

[lemon10]

Wait, I think we're interpreting things differently here. Reducing delay by 1/3 results in an increase in speed of 50%. So we're both saying the same thing, really.

No we weren't. You were saying the same thing as the knowledge bot, i was being incorrect and confused, as i misinterpreted it (due to the fact that the player uses movement delay, and monsters use a different system for some obscure reaspon) as a ms bonus. But, i did to the math properly on the other hand somehow.

[nenjin]

Man, sometimes playing this game as melee pisses me off. It feels like there's groups of monsters respawning on levels constantly now, too. I'm on Lvl 2 of the Lair, and I'm getting dog piled by wave after wave of fucking blink frogs. I've probably killed at least 35 between levels 2 and 1 now. Even after clearing a level, I'll take a step and BOOM, surrounded. It's a) eaten all my potions, b) forced me to spend ungodly amounts of time resting, which has caused c) a lack of food.

Down to almost nothing, as burdened by armor as I am helped by it, Lugonu gives me next to no love in combat and the big ass saving ability robs you of all the xp for the monsters....gah. It's like the only way to get through playing meele is to save scum after every...single....kill.

Despite the improvements to save file handling, really, it would be nice to just have a "save and quit to the main menu" button, and a "quit without saving and return to the main menu" button.

[3]

I've had a run of hilariously bad luck for two days in a row now. Highlights include a loose jelly on D:1, D:3 Sigmund four times in a row, three seperate new Mummy characters meeting various uniques all with wands of flame, the standard three-uniques-plus-orc-priests-plus-ogres/giants levels and a zot trap on D:1. No, I don't know how either.

I've also taken to creating Abyss Knights for the sole purpose of trying to survive in the Abyss for as long as possible (yes, just staying there at level 1 instead of leaving).

@nenjin: What kind of characters are you playing? Excluding highly difficult levels, the only thing that really gets me early on as a melee character is hubris. Blink frogs are massively dangerous if you're a spellcaster, but other than that they don't seem too bad to me, apart from the fairly high damage output.

You mention Lugonu, but you have to understand that she's more an exotic god than anything. There are only a couple of instances that I can think of where she's actually useful. Try Makhleb or something.

I will agree, though, that Crawl's handling of melee is bullshit. That's the case for most Roguelikes.

[nenjin]

DS AK of Lugonu. I've done Mahkleb, it's relatively easy with an accessible "kill" button, and lots of good summoned friendlies.

Lugonu just seems like a cold bitch by comparison. "Here's a power to return to the worst place in existence." "Here's a power to hurt yourself and blink." "Here's a power to solve your problems but rob you of half the reward, and might possible get you killed if you're not paying attention while moving."

Banishment is like the one saving grace of the religion...but even that has a caveat. You don't get no free rides with Lugonu. Reading over the other stuff, there are a couple other perks...but man. Mahkleb supports his followers to help them get the job done. Lugonu is like "meh, get out there and do stuff, the abyss is here if you want it."

The blink frogs, it's just shocking how much damage they do. Frogs in general are behemoths, but damn, a pack of them and I'm down 100 HPs.

I guess what kills me is I'm 10 into armor already, and my platemail, while giving great AC and damage prevention, still robs me of half my attacks at that level.

A better weapon, a tier up from the junk on the first 10 floors, has eased things up a bit. Ultimately though, the lack of mass explosions of instant damage, friends or other effects to throw the monsters off, pretty much leaves straight melees fucked, for the size and numbers of stuff that SS throws at them, on top of the (very awesome) mechanics.

I'm pretty sure the only thing that's stopped me from tearing my hair out in total frustration on this run is a good dose of magic resistance that came my way early on.

It's always like this though. That spot between levels 6 and 15, and all the stuff in between, is a total pain in the ass as a mostly melee character. Past there you can start to hybridize, get a ring of the gourmand, all that tertiary support stuff that supplements having an awesome race, innate powers and spell access.

Even though I've said it before, I feel like melee-focused characters need something extra to get them through combat. Like a sweeping attack that hits all adjacent squares at once, kill shots, something.

[G-Flex]

Here's the thing about Lugonu:

• The damage from Bend Space isn't that high, and you can use Bend Space even if you're shit at casting spells. Being able to blink as a heavy-armoured fighter is nice.
• Being able to voluntarily enter the Abyss is meant as a sort of last-ditch option if your ass really needs saving. That's about it; that's why it costs max HP (I think).
• You can leave the Abyss if you want, and can teleport/blink more freely in it. That's extremely handy, especially since once you have a Distortion weapon, you can pretty much enter the Abyss whenever you feel like it.
• You get Corruption! Handy for messing up some levels, especially preset vaults.
• We get partial XP for banishing monsters now, which makes the Distortion brand a little more useful, and you can put it on any weapon.

[nenjin]

We get partial XP for banishing monsters now, which makes the Distortion brand a little more useful, and you can put it on any weapon.

Well praise Lugonu for that. I don't feel so bad about using it to deal with threats.

You can leave the Abyss if you want, and can teleport/blink more freely in it. That's extremely handy, especially since once you have a Distortion weapon, you can pretty much enter the Abyss whenever you feel like it.

Where does Exit Abyss put you? And the unreliable wiki says something about higher blink reliability in the abyss.

[G-Flex]

Exit Abyss puts you wherever you'd be when you normally leave the Abyss, I'd guess. So around the same place where you enter it, under most circumstances.

[BishopX]

Levels 6-15 is where my melee characters feel like they're on top of the world. Enough HP to avoid unlucky deaths, enough damage output to reliably down enemies in only a few hits, and you generally don't face too many ranged attackers or spell casters.