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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 1682445 times)

Dr.Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4005 on: October 12, 2010, 09:47:47 am »

While Mr.Scruffy was dominating the Snake Pits for his halfing master he came across a new unique named Mennas.

http://crawl.chaosforge.org/index.php?title=Mennas

I never seen this guy before, so I summoned a berserk troll and went berserk myself. It should be noted that my kitty berserker has killed stone giants without having to rely on Trog. What happened? Mennas apparently has tons of health and can heal himself while silenced. Mr.Scruffy bites the dust, comes back to life in a safe spot, finishes Mennas off, and eats his own corpse???

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Leafsnail

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4006 on: October 12, 2010, 10:04:28 am »

Woah.  Especially odd is that it's apparently only "minor" healing.
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Frumple

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4007 on: October 12, 2010, 10:35:45 am »

Yeah, Mennas was in the ten-rune challenge sprint map, and apparently in the new trunk builds. Abso-freaking-lute beast of a thing with ridiculous range silence (iirc, it can lock down casting from outside standard view range...), self-healing, and a beastly melee presence. I've kamikazed three+ large aboms and multiple haunt castings on the damn thing without killing it and it wrecked a number of my really promising caster runs for that map. Mennas is a monster :-\
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Moron

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4008 on: October 12, 2010, 01:47:00 pm »

Is it possible to wield a bow or a shield with Blade Hands active?
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Toaster

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4009 on: October 12, 2010, 02:00:36 pm »

Crawl is up to something.

D:1, and I just found, >200-ish tunrs in, a Randart with no drawbacks, and everything about it directly helps this Deep Elf Wizard.

Res Cold
+2 Int
+3 Dex

EDIT: And, hey, a potion of Int on D:2.

EDITEDIT: Fuck you, crawl. Sigmund + Fuckton of orcs waiting right next to the stairs in D:4

The RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away.  Blessed be the will of the RNG.
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Meanmelter

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4010 on: October 12, 2010, 02:37:32 pm »

Crawl is up to something.

D:1, and I just found, >200-ish tunrs in, a Randart with no drawbacks, and everything about it directly helps this Deep Elf Wizard.

Res Cold
+2 Int
+3 Dex

EDIT: And, hey, a potion of Int on D:2.

EDITEDIT: Fuck you, crawl. Sigmund + Fuckton of orcs waiting right next to the stairs in D:4

The RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away.  Blessed be the will of the RNG.

RNG=Zom
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Antioch

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4011 on: October 12, 2010, 04:19:46 pm »

Yeah, im playing a demigod Fire mage who is currently more a reaver, I found a +3+3 longsword of slicing in a sewer early and also got a +3 ring mail of cold resistance.
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Dr.Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4012 on: October 12, 2010, 04:43:08 pm »

Draconians were overhauled.

Is it possible to wield a bow or a shield with Blade Hands active?

No.

Crawl is up to something.

D:1, and I just found, >200-ish tunrs in, a Randart with no drawbacks, and everything about it directly helps this Deep Elf Wizard.

Res Cold
+2 Int
+3 Dex

EDIT: And, hey, a potion of Int on D:2.

EDITEDIT: Fuck you, crawl. Sigmund + Fuckton of orcs waiting right next to the stairs in D:4

The RNG giveth, the RNG taketh away.  Blessed be the will of the RNG.

RNG=Xom

Fixed.  :P
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beorn080

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4013 on: October 12, 2010, 05:31:44 pm »

If they keep that, it looks like Grey would be a great choice for casters, and mottled would make a great choice for melee with sticky splash.
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Nivim

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4014 on: October 13, 2010, 12:41:11 am »

 You can choose now?
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Mr.Person

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4015 on: October 13, 2010, 01:59:06 am »

You can choose now?

No, the Devteam (one member of said Devteam) has made it very clear that choosing draconian color is never happening. With all my heart, I must highly, highly recommend to the Devteam to reconsider that position. I and many other players WILL startscum until we get the draconians we want anyways. One of the design goals is making it so players don't choose actions based on how frustrating they are, so why is one of the keys to playing draconians deciding whether to restart until you get an optimal build or sticking with a suboptimal color because restarting is really fucking annoying? There are several combos that are not happening. TSO and green, FE and red or mottled, EE and black, and any pale draconians at all.

Let us pick out fucking draconian color. If I want random game-changing good stuff to happen, I'll play a demonspawn. I play draconian because I want cool breathe weapons and resistances, not so I can hope the RNG gives me a color that's not gimped because of my class and/or god choice. At least with demonspawn it kind of works because you can't be screwed by a good god and you get 6 shots at mutations that change shit around. As it is, draconians are weak demonspawn as far as I'm concerned. They're too similar. Picking color would not only buff the somewhat weak draconian race, not only increase player enjoyment, but it would help differentiate them from demonspawn. They both feel very similar with "random game changing mutations around level 7" being the flavor... which is odd for a dragon. It's kind of flavorful to have the immature draconians all start out the same, but you can keep that flavor by having the player pick color at the start of the game and keeping the grow-into-color-at-level-7 mechanic currently employed. No loss of flavor. I cannot for the life of me even think of one good reason to keep draconian colors random. Does anybody know that the Devteam's thought process is? Usually I can at least follow it even if I don't agree with them, but in this case I can't follow them at all. Heck, I know I'm usually the one that's kissing the Devteam's ass and praising their ideas as good, but in this case, I have to disagree with them completely.

Also, I'm not convinced Felids are going to be a good addition so far. They seem weaker than Ogres, which is saying something. If I want "stealthy but can't use most weapons and armor", I'll play as a Spriggan. They don't seem to fit any particular niche at all. I suppose if they wind up with the best Traps and Doors skill, that could wind up being useful for them when Traps and Doors gets the ability to make traps out of wands and weapons. On the other hand, if they can't even swing a dagger at all, how do they have the fine motor skills to build a trap and set a dagger into the trap to swing when it's set off? That makes no sense, but then again, neither does a Troll building a trap like that or a Spriggan even being able to life huge boulders up to the ceiling at all, so maybe it doesn't matter.
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Nivim

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4016 on: October 13, 2010, 03:33:16 am »

 Hm, the reason I spoke was because I've played 86 games of Draconian Transmuters and nothing else. As far as I've been able to tell, the random color and abilities doom me significantly less often than a random net trap, forgetting I can't assume anything, or daggers of distortion. They're more like an extra boon when they do help.
 Perhaps with these changes I'll be able to get the orb and try something different.
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Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

Mr.Person

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4017 on: October 13, 2010, 03:38:37 am »

Especially for a transmuter none of the colors are particularly bad except for pale, but pale sucks in general anyways. Sure, none of them hurt, but several of them are noticeably better than the others. Mottled, old and new green, old grey, and new yellow are MUCH better than the other choices if you're melee fighting (especially yellow and mottled). Optimal play would be to startscum until you get one of those colors. Not everyone will do this because startscumming and reaching level 7 over and over gets very tedious very quickly,
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Hmm...I've never been a big fan of CCGs - I mean, I did and still do collect Pokemon cards, but I never got heavily into the battling and trading thing.

By definition that makes you a fan since you still buy them.

Nivim

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4018 on: October 13, 2010, 03:42:25 am »

 Can the highscore table show how many people quit their games prematurely?
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Imagine a cool peice of sky-blue and milk-white marble about 3cm by 2cm and by 0.5cm, containing a tiny 2mm malacolite crystal. Now imagine the miles of metamorphic rock it's embedded in that no pick or chisel will ever touch. Then, imagine that those miles will melt back into their mantle long before any telescope even refracts an image of their planet. The watchers will be so excited to have that image too.

baruk

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #4019 on: October 13, 2010, 06:31:50 am »

 Speaking from the perspective of an inveterate all random afficionado..

Quote from: Mr.Person
I cannot for the life of me even think of one good reason to keep draconian colors random.

 It's fun, and gives the race a unique character. You say that they are too much like demonspawn, but wouldn't colour choosing simply add 9 inferior "new" races with pre-existing counterparts, eg. purple draconians as a variety of tough, fire-breathing elf?
 Furthermore, if you commit your sub-level 7 draconian to the long term strategy of TSO worship, then you deserve the entirely predictable kick in the pants from the RNG when you develop a fetching set of green scales at level 7 (even so, you can always switch to Zin or Elyvilon).

 It's a bit like choosing a random race, but with more control. If you are choosing your class, then to reduce risk of getting hosed you can cross off a few of the more specialised choices that paint a juicy target for the RNG eg. elementalists.

 And startscumming sucks. I don't think development should be driven by a need to completely eliminate the possibility of such marginal player behaviours at the price of some of the challenge or uniqueness of certain races.

Quote
Also, I'm not convinced Felids are going to be a good addition so far. They seem weaker than Ogres, which is saying something. If I want "stealthy but can't use most weapons and armor", I'll play as a Spriggan. They don't seem to fit any particular niche at all.

 Its niche is being a carnivorous Spriggan with extra lives.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 06:51:14 am by baruk »
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