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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 1683160 times)

Leafsnail

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3705 on: September 23, 2010, 06:19:58 pm »
Good night, Agnes.



2 spaces away from the stairs with me at the top end of "Extraordinarily stealthy"?  No chance.

I saw a couple of other uniques by another stairway, guess I better stab them too.
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Von Krieger

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3706 on: September 23, 2010, 08:37:10 pm »
I'm finding I can reliably get relatively far (for me) with Summoners. Though once things start appearing that can one shot imps, I start having problems. Summon Scorpions didn't seem to work quite well, as even at Excellent they go hostile. Are any of the other Book of Callings spells (aside from spammals) worth taking?
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3707 on: September 23, 2010, 09:06:18 pm »
I think summon imps is quite good if you summon enough of them and support them with spammals, since they last longer than the latter, and deal several kinds of damage. Plus shadow imps can double as zombie creators
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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3708 on: September 23, 2010, 09:53:25 pm »
Ice Beast, definitely. I also find Canine Familiar to be decent at higher skill levels, sure you'll get some jackals, but it's mostly hounds and war dogs if you cast it five-six times you'll likely to get a wolf or even a warg.
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Quote from: Muz on May 19, 2009, 08:37:52 am
Urist, President has immigrated to your fortress!
Urist, President mandates the Dwarven Bill of Rights.

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Ah, the Magma Carta...

Frumple

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3709 on: September 23, 2010, 10:33:38 pm »
Higher tier canine summons also seem to last longer than normal, though it might be a conincidence thing. When I'm spamming them around in sprint, the jackals usually disappear long before the war dogs do.

As for the rest of the initial summoning book:
Spammels -- Good, but should be replaced with butterflies eventually.
Call Imp -- Good, but eventually Demonic Horde wins out. Can kill hydras, orc warlords, and similar such nasties... if you have enough of them :P (Sif MuSu.)
Call Canines -- Excellent, but jackals are crap. Only really shines if you can call up a horde before combat; in-combat, ice beasts, imps, or spammels is probably going to be a better bang for your buck; those spells are less random, and dependability can be absolutely vital in dangerous situations.
Summon Scorpions -- Can call up more critters than anything short of butterflies, horde, and haunt -- for that alone, it's potentially useful. Poison stacks like a beast when you're pulling up 3-4 scorps a casting. Formula for hostility is 4 in Spell Power, if the wiki was accurate. Hostiles are generally outnumbered (and poisonable themselves, so not much of a threat.). Don't cast in a corridor if you're running from something, but do cast in the open in the same situation.
Ice beast -- Are beasts. ~20 damage, 3/4s unblockable via AC. I've seen beasts solo hydras, and it's easy enough to call up 4-5 by the time you can cast it well. Mixing a few beasts into canine/scorpion swarms is a vicious combo in the early/mid game.

In general, spending a few mana points to diversify your summons on the ground rarely hurts, and is generally a major boon. Keeping a screen of expendables (I.E. spammels, butterflies, imps) to keep the harder hitters (Upper tier canines, beasts, scorps) from going down as quickly can exponentially increase your swarm's potential damage.

All in all, my raw summoners generally get the whole book. At most, they'll skip scorpions until they've had a chance to spam mephetic cloud or something a bit, to boost poison magic and reduce hostility chance. It's a solid starting book.
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Von Krieger

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3710 on: September 23, 2010, 10:48:53 pm »
Thanks. So far my biggest problem is getting the minions to stay between me and the nasty thing getting up in my grill. For some reason the insectoid enemies (giant beetle and ants, mostly) have a nasty habit of charging right through a cloud of summons and coming right at me. :P
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Moron

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3711 on: September 24, 2010, 11:56:18 am »
My most successful character so far finally met his end:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So, the question is, how long does it normally take to get out of the abyss? I was there for a long time (long enough that starvation was becoming a danger, and I had a lot of food when I got banished,) and I never saw either a portal back to the dungeon or an altar of Lugonu. (or the rune for that matter...)
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Frumple

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3712 on: September 24, 2010, 12:19:56 pm »
It can be wildly variable, from what I understand. Every time I've been banished so far and escaped (Maybe five times, so the sample size is small) I was out in probably <500 turns. Maybe two, three scenery changes. Mind you, every time I didn't get out that quickly, something killed me (Large abomination, demon swarms, etc.), so... yeah.

Knowledge bot says each square has a 1 in 7500 chance of being a portal out. So, covering more ground increases the chance of escape, I guess?
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Robsoie

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3713 on: September 24, 2010, 12:44:06 pm »
When you follow a "good" god, aren't the "good" monsters (like Angels) supposed to be neutral with you ?
I have a Human Fighter character that is following Elyvilon ( Greater Self Healing saved my character an insane amount of time, i never really bother with Elyvilon before, but that power is a huge life savior).
At some point i reached a closed building with entries blocked by crystal/glass/whatever see-through material that contained an altar to Shining One and an Angel.

The Angel saw me through one of the see-through walls and said something like "you're wicked" (i was at rank 4 of Elyvilon standing, as the Greater Self Healing consume lots of faith unfortunately) and i never was under any penance from Elyvilon.

As i wanted to give a look to the stair that was next to the altar, i used a dig wand and made a hole.
when i was near the altar, i noticed the Angel was actually punching me with whatever weapon he had.

Unfortunately for the Angel, this time my level 16 fighter have been very lucky and found good items through his cleaning of the dungeons .

I then went berserk directly with the amulet i had and to my surprise after a long battle, killed the Angel (having the luck to find good items make a very big difference in crawl survival, usually Rock Troll are killing machines, but not so much when you hit with some awesome axe that has speed brand + good +hit,+damage and have some very good artifact armors with good bonuses).

I was expecting some faith rank lost or penance (as the wiki says fighting "holy" being is a big no no for Elyvilon) , but no such thing, no rank loss, no penance.
I then used Elyvilon destroy weapon power on the Angel weapon on the ground, and "Shining One was happy to get the weapon back" , so even Shiny is not unhappy ?

Is that Angel trying to murder my "good" character a bug leading into another bug with Elyvilon not caring about my character killing that "holy" being ?




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Leafsnail

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3714 on: September 24, 2010, 02:34:35 pm »
Fallen angel?  :P.

Uh... does it only work if you're TSO?
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Moron

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3715 on: September 24, 2010, 03:08:05 pm »
My latest attempt is a kobold artificer; I was planning to worship Nemelex Xobeh, but there is no altar in the Temple.

Knowing my past record of survival it seems relatively unlikely I will find one in the lifetime of this character, so do you reckon it is better to cut my losses and choose another god, (Okawaru or Trog seem like the obvious choices,) or hope to find an altar to Nemelex elsewhere?

Edit: never mind, came down the stairs next to Sigmund and the rest is history.

« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 03:13:51 pm by Moron »
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Dr.Feelgood

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3716 on: September 24, 2010, 04:25:17 pm »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That never gets old.

Quote from: Robsoie on September 24, 2010, 12:44:06 pm
When you follow a "good" god, aren't the "good" monsters (like Angels) supposed to be neutral with you ?
I then used Elyvilon destroy weapon power on the Angel weapon on the ground, and "Shining One was happy to get the weapon back" , so even Shiny is not unhappy ?
Is that Angel trying to murder my "good" character a bug leading into another bug with Elyvilon not caring about my character killing that "holy" being ?

- Yes, most of the time.
- Angels follow Zin, Daevas follow TSO, and Apis bulls follow Elyvilon. Holy weapons are forged by TSO.
- Holy beings are not guaranteed to like you. If you don't have high enough piety, they might attack you for being "too weak" or "unclean."
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Mr.Person

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3717 on: September 24, 2010, 05:35:27 pm »
I think when you hit max piety with a good god all holy beings turn at least neutral, but I'm probably wrong since I don't have much experience with the good gods.
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KrunkSplein

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3718 on: September 24, 2010, 06:45:48 pm »
I need for someone to dispute a thought I have after reading some of this thread.  I love rogue-likes, but this seems to be more... static than most.  The major threats are all bosses that will exist in every run through the game, and some race/class combos seem strongly favored over others to the point where they are always chosen.

I really want to like this game - will someone please prove that my above sentence is blatantly incorrect?

Thanks!
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Virroken

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #3719 on: September 24, 2010, 07:02:55 pm »
Bosses are random. You won't meet every one in every run. Also, only the hard bosses are hard. That's why we whine about them. It's possible to have a run where you meet only melee tank bosses and laugh, and it's possible to run into pure caster uniques who one shot you.
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