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[Robsoie]

Additionally having a way to see invisible can be helpfull, those elves really hit hard and they really like to become invisible.

I never managed to clear entirely the Elven Hall. Between the elf that strike at me when i could not see it, the elf that blast me from far away and the elf that had many strong demons coming from me, life in there is a bit hard

[Grendus]

Elf at 20? Nah, it's not that hard. I got to 7 at level 13 with a troll monk. Just takes patience and a little strategy.

Your goal is to force the elves to face you head to head, allowing the archers to shoot you and the summoners to start spamming is a death sentence. Don't be afraid to run or backtrack a bit, and always keep track of the nearest up stairs. Take advantage of line of sight, if you stand a little ways back in a hallway you can force them to approach you at 1 space away. They're pitiful in melee. Summoners need to be caught off guard, either rush them or run away and wait for their spammals to vanish. Knights hurt, but if you have sufficiently high AC, health, or just brute force (in the case of a troll monk with dragon hide armor and the anger mutation, all three) they're just snack food. Aside from using artifacts, namely magic decks from Nimelex Xobeh, to get out of sticky situations it's very manageable at an earlier level.su

However, if you aren't playing such a blunt class I can see how it could be hard. Certainly my summoner got eaten alive in there, demons couldn't hold them back well enough.

Edit: See invisible... yea, wish I had that. I just killed everything I could see and lashed out randomly when I was getting attacked by something I couldn't. Works well enough, you know, for a troll.

[Soadreqm]

I was playing a demonspawn chaos knight of Makhleb, and had gotten two levels of the movement speed mutation. The movement speed mutation is sweet. I'd also found some demonic items in a weapon shop, and was hoping to be able to buy them later. Alas, I fell some three levels down a shaft, and after a while of trying to get back up, ran into a centaur warrior. Shot dead while trying to escape.

I was running in a corridor, and summoned a servant of Makhleb to slow the centaur down. In hindsight, I really shouldn't have, there was a cockroach between me an it, and it would have both stopped the centaur from shooting arrows and slowed it down. The demon easily dispatched the roach and the centaur easily dispatched the demon.

Are the demonic weapons any good? My experience with rare weapons so far has been a couple of lajatangs, which were the most awesome weapons ever. The store had a demon blade and a demon trident. There are the first demon weapons I have ever seen, and I didn't even get to use them.

[quinnr]

....DAMN. SIGMUND.

I was so happy I was doing well. (High Elf Crusader. They pwn.)
I beat Jessica, and walk left a few steps, open a door.
"FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-"

Sigmund IMMEDIATELY turned invisible, and shot fireballs at me. Even with my ring of fire resistance, you can only take so much fire

[darkflagrance]

I was playing a demonspawn chaos knight of Makhleb, and had gotten two levels of the movement speed mutation. The movement speed mutation is sweet. I'd also found some demonic items in a weapon shop, and was hoping to be able to buy them later. Alas, I fell some three levels down a shaft, and after a while of trying to get back up, ran into a centaur warrior. Shot dead while trying to escape.

I was running in a corridor, and summoned a servant of Makhleb to slow the centaur down. In hindsight, I really shouldn't have, there was a cockroach between me an it, and it would have both stopped the centaur from shooting arrows and slowed it down. The demon easily dispatched the roach and the centaur easily dispatched the demon.

Are the demonic weapons any good? My experience with rare weapons so far has been a couple of lajatangs, which were the most awesome weapons ever. The store had a demon blade and a demon trident. There are the first demon weapons I have ever seen, and I didn't even get to use them.

If you're a demon, Demon Whips are the best weapons in the game, with the blades pretty high up there too.

[Graven]

Heh, a nice little tid-bit - in trunk, when you enslave Pikel, the slaves become friendly, and remain so when the effect ends. Pretty nice

[DJ]

I'm playing Sludge Elf Transmuters these days. I do fine up until lvl 10 or so, but then I can't figure out where to branch out. Not that I ever find any spell books. Sif Muna isn't that useful, either, since I use unarmed combat more than spellcasting. Anyway, any recommendations on what I should pick up after I get decent with Blade Hands? And what god? I pick Sif Muna because I always have terrible luck with spell books, but it's not really working out for me.

Oh, and it's awesome how weaksauce transmuter ghosts are. They can't cast *any* spells from the Book of Changes. A refreshing change from summoner ghosts with infinite mana.

[quinnr]

I have so many summoner ghosts...they are flipping scary, since most of them can call an infinite amount of imps.

At the levels where my summoners die, the only thing that can beat them is about a berserker/crusader w/ berserk. (Run through the animals, smash the summoner, hope you don't faint, and run.)

[DJ]

Ghosts are the main reason I stopped playing summoners. They're a lot of fun to play, but they are so damn fragile, and I end up leaving a summoner ghost on every level of Orcish Mines (god-damned smiting ).

[Akhier the Dragon hearted]

That is so funny, I have actually never faced a summoner ghost but most of the characters I play are summoners. Ah the joy of using Akrasiac, I have yet to face myself.

[Soadreqm]

I've been playing at crawl.develz.org lately, firstly because they are closer and secondly because they have Trunk. Playing on a server is neat, though. I run into my own ghosts every now and then, but usually it's other people's. So, when I play a summoner, someone else has to fight my spammals, which is basically the coolest thing ever.

Well, lately I've been doing demonspawns. They're testing new demon powers in Trunk, and some of them are pretty cool.

[Robsoie]

Wanted to try the demonspawn on the 0.7 trunk to see what was that new about it.
Unfortunately my run lasted very few turns, my level 2 gladiator on floor 2 being killed surprisingly by a simple goblin. Must have been one on steroid, as i don't remember any goblin killing any of my hundred of previous characters so far.

Anyways, it reminded me why i disliked the hunger : food you create by butchering rots way way too quick in my opinion. That's just annoying.

I really strongly don't like how i can't just close the windowed version i play by clicking on the X in the upper right, it was nice and quick in 0.6.
And apparently exiting from some menu, like the character one (that open when you right click on your character sprite) by just right clicking with the mouse is not possible anymore, you need to press Escape, another annoyance to me.

I hope those are not design change, but just the result of the unfinished state of the beta.

[Grendus]

Food from butchery doesn't last long enough, agreed, unless you play a character that can eat it raw. It lasts longer in your stomach, for some bizarre reason. Or, more likely, you can just carry more internally, which is equally unlikely except for characters like trolls that are by definition too big.

Personally, I think it'd be interesting to see a conjuration or something that allowed you to cook meat. Food makes casters very hard to play.

[Robsoie]

Yes, it is rather strange to have absolutely no food problem with a troll berserker, that is becoming hungry a lot more and a lot quicker than the other races, while those other races will often die starving because you can't eat your butchered food before the game allow you too (and convenientely when the "hungry" tag allowing you to eat appear, those food are now rotten).

The troll great thing is that he can eat even before the "hungry" tag appear, making food a non-problem for him (unless of course you are in crypt or similar non-food providing branches).

I think the hunger problem would be less of one if the game allowed races to eat unless they are "full", while trolls could continue until the engorged.

[Soadreqm]

Most roguelikes don't really have definite time. Probably to explain why you never have to sleep and can regenerate any injury by resting a while. In the real world, if you sit on your ass and do nothing, you can go like a month without dying of starvation. Of course, there are some rather nasty effects to this. Your body breaking down your muscle tissue for sustenance, for starters. And I think that if you go long enough without eating, in a disturbing twist of irony, your body starts losing its capacity for absorbing nutrients from food! Well, I'm not quite sure about that one.

Starvation isn't really much of an issue in Crawl, except for spell hunger. Playing vampires and kobolds and other races with special food powers is always fun, though. I think it'd be cool if there was some way you could reliably acquire certain mutations at some point in the game. Then again, I think it'd also be cool if we had a huge, persistent open world. Oh, well.