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[quinnr]

Dgamelauncher is a pain to set up

[Grendus]

Any advice for a summoner on dealing with the Hive? I'm not about to go down there, I have enough trouble dealing with the occasional beehive I run into without descending into a themed level full of them without finding some poison resistance, but I'm curious. The only way I've found to deal with them is to use a barrier of spammals and snakes to hold them back and set traps for the lead bee at rooms by getting slightly ahead and leaving a swarm of poisonous snakes and scorpions to keep them at bay.

[Grendus]

Just got the Grimoire of Calling as a gift from Sif Muna (god I love her). I'm currently working my way slowly through Orc with scorpions and ice beasts backed up with spammals, though I may drop them now that I can summon butterfly swarms for protection. Question - how dangerous is summoning demons and ugly things? I know that my scorpions are occasionally not mine, which makes me hesitant to try something more powerful.

[Soadreqm]

I haven't played summoners much, but if the spell demons are anything like Makhleb demons, the question you want to be considering is this: Can I summon enough demons reliably enough to take down occasional hostile demons? As long as you don't get into situations where the next demon you summon absolutely MUST be friendly, you'll probably be fine.

My latest game was a high elf paladin. Was doing pretty well, until I ran into an ogre while chasing after a worm or something. More or less literally ran into it. The worm was running away, and I was running after it, not paying attention to other things, and then suddenly there is an ogre next to me, hitting me with its giant club for almost thirty damage.

[Lap]

The only way I've found to deal with them is to use a barrier of spammals and snakes to hold them back and set traps for the lead bee at rooms by getting slightly ahead and leaving a swarm of poisonous snakes and scorpions to keep them at bay.

What kind of traps we talking about here?

[Grendus]

Just strong creatures waiting in the room. Shouldn't be as much of a problem now that I have Summon Butterflies (the most useless ability and the most awesome ability rolled into a single spell). Essentially, the bees were stronger than anything I could summon so I had to win the fight by attrition. I'd run, keeping a few spammals between me and the bees. I'd gain distance (each summon mammals spell summoned two cannon fodder animals that took 1-2 hits to bring down, and in corridors only one bee could attack at a time) then when I got to a room I'd stop and summon up a swarm of spammals backed up with a few scorpions and big snakes with an imp or ice beast thrown in. After a while, the bees would simply be worn down and, if I was lucky, get trapped in the middle of a spammal hoard and die. It takes a while, and sucks when you backtrack into something dangerous. I had a very tense moment when I got trapped between a troll and a killer bee, but overall it's effective enough.

I'm in orc right now, and it's going amazingly well. There are so many corpses to drink (vamp ftw) that I can afford the hunger for scorpion armies when I explore a new level. It's awesome.

[Lap]

I don't know how the hell some of you have the patience to play some of these classes. Mummys and these class/race combos that need to kite everything across two levels are tedious as hell.

[Robsoie]

I have been toying around with a troll berserker, just to have a big change from my usual mummy and vampire that allowed me to play without the hunger problem.

I was expecting it to die starving very easily, but in fact it surprised me how balanced the game can be (sometime), the regeneration+ability to eat even rotten food+the huuuge strength that allow the troll to kill quickly allow to balance its immense and quick to develop hunger as it allow to get food more "easily" than other classes (that need less food anyways).

The lack of possibilities to use those nice weapons you can find is a good balance to the huge strength and health the troll features.

At some point near the beginning of the gamei was annoyed because for some reason none of my kills left any corpse to butcher, my troll was always nearly starving, but once corpse began to appear more regularly, it was not a problem anymore , and i could even "pray" some corpse to Trog without having to worry way too much about food saving.

During that run i found 5 mutation potions rather early, as i was not expected to grow attached to that character, the troll drank them all, and surprisingly they were all positive, minus 1 that made my troll even stupider, but the last potion countered this effect and even removed the horns :

A troll that can breath fire and spit poison while teleporting when wanted ? Awesome

Interested by this mutated troll, i then decided to play it more seriously, even cleaned the Orc Mines with him (finally someone that can go head to head with those pesky Orc Warrior and Knight without having to trick them to stairs, though i had to use the stair in some location due to hordes of Orcs).

Been annoyed to have my Troll unable to use weapons, because apparently Trog took a real liking at my character and many interesting god gift had been given.

I am currently in the Lair and i have lots of fun with this now level 11 Troll.
Too bad i know in advance there are some branch that are forbidden to it, because they have no food providing enemies (crypt/slime/etc..), i hope this troll will live long enough to reach the latest dungeon floor.

Sadly, now that the troll is very prepared i have no met Sigmund, the coward that is used to attack very low level characters must have ran away.

[Lap]

Trolls are a fine race, but trying pulling that off with an ogre. Man that race sucks so bad. They need something drastic like learning as fast as kobolds or something.

[Leafsnail]

Trolls are awesome.  They get weaker in late game though... something that squishy just doesn't seem to be able to survive high level encounters, at least for me.

For the summoner, I seem to remember that after you have a couple of demonic hordes it doesn't matter too much if one or two of them are bad (especially if you have Abjuration).

[Grendus]

Orc has to be the best level for food, presuming you're a creature that is allowed to eat humanoid corpses. I was Alive for most of orc, which is impressive considering I was also summoning powerful creatures like demons and ugly things. Lots of food and lots of gold. Not a lot of good gear though, just lots of spears to summon cheap snakes with.

After finishing orc, I went into elf and died, so after savescumming back (I love this character too much to just let him die) I went back up to the dungeon and decided to clear Lair next. Lair is surprisingly dangerous this time around, I got caught in a situation where there was an active mushroom, a giant toad, and two of my summons were bad. Not a great situation. I summoned a hoard of butterflies and used them as a shield until I could get a few good demons out to protect me. Summoners are fun.

[Robsoie]

I had so much fun with that mutated Troll berserker that i even savescum-ed 4 times already, as i don't want to lose that fun on one of my stupid "damn i forgot during all of that fight i could have just used this scroll"
(those 4 deaths were exactly because i forgot i had a lot of teleportation scrolls, and forgot i even had the mutation-given ability to do it) .

But out of those 4 times, that Troll is really good and very resistant, and played seriously avoiding to get into impossible fights by always making sure there is an escape route, i was surprised how far he can go.
Seems like hunger can be very well fought back with butchering everything (edible), as long of course you avoid branch with nothing that can be eaten.

That Troll even managed to conquer 2 of the zot runes.
The one from the Shoals and the one from the Snake Pit.
Unlike what the wiki said, i found the last floor of the Snake Pit more difficult than the last level of the Shoals, maybe because by good luck i ran only into 1 named enemy (a siren) in this last floor (i found the rune in a building nearly immediately after running out of the stair, so i didn't really wanted to explore more after taking it and risk my Troll  life there).

And because the Shoals have tons of monster my troll can eat, allowing him to rest and eat again when needed, while out of a rare mini-snake, none of the monsters in the Snake Pit are edible because most of them will poison your character seriously if attempted.
I survived this branch only because of his vast amount of health and native regeneration that allowed to wear down the poisonning each time, but i always made sure to not get into heavy poisonning, always running out of the place when i was poisonned yellow.

I managed to fetch the rune only thanks to a more than a dozen of Trog-summoned "Brother in Arms" that were many variations of giants and ogres that really were more than helpfull in taking down all the various kind of nagas, considering everything is poisonning you.

But from max Trog-power, i lost 2 or 3 faith ranks because of this Brother in Arms usage (even lost Brother in Arm), but honestly considering the amount of powerfull variant of naga that were on zone, i could have never been able to do otherwise.

Hopefully now things should calm down when i will be back into the main dungeon, so i will be able to win back those lost faith ranks.

Going berzerk left no chances to the naga that were always alive in the end of the big brawl, though i wished more than once that its duration was longer, had to teleport away from a few fights when there was always some Greater Naga around.
Those guys are very powerfull, they are responsible of 2 of my savescumming making insane poison damage at long range if unlucky.

Though for those as they were all in the same big room, i had to often attract one (running out of Brother in Arms really made it hard), run away then kill it to avoid getting all those shooting their poison at my Troll.
Was an attrition battle to get the rune, as i had to rest away to wear down the poisonning each time. But it was a lot of fun.

And without any butcherable enemy, i had to use my collected food, and fortunately i had a very lot of it, as i was eating only butchered steak until then.

I am currently in The Vault branch, so far it seems rather easy in comparison to the Snake Pit, in the dungeon, the Vault entrance was actually protected by +/- 8 Vault Guard, i was surprised to see my Troll going berzerk killing them all (in a narrow corridor, it really helped)

I never went deep into the Vault before, is it a good choice to get the Vault rune for my Troll (he is now at level 15), it seems easy, but i wonder if the last level has some nasty surprise ?

Because i would really like to avoid the nasty surprise i had in an old run in which i got an interesting necromancer and half a dozen of huge abominations that managed to clear rather easily the Swamp branch.
But in the last floor of it, i found what i thought was the building with the  rune inside, but a dragon coming from it butchered -every- huge abomination and killed me even before the teleport spell activated.

Anyways, i would have never suspected Trolls to be that fun to play with, probably because of the strong restrictions (lots of hunger and no good weapon/armor), but i'm glad i tried it as that mutated Troll is really interesting to play.

[Mr.Person]

According to my stats, troll unarmed combat out-DPS's any axe I threw at it, including a +9 +9 broad axe of chopping! I didn't check with an executioner's axe, though. So I think you're probably right to continue with unarmed combat. Still, since randarts can have insanely high +to-hit and +dam, you may want to ID the randarts if nothing else.

Vaults:1-7 are easy and filled with food. Watch out for the Yaktaurs and uniques! One thing to note: Vaults:8, the end level, is very, very hard. It's filled with dragons, glowing shapeshifters, and other nasties, and there's ~20 Vault Guardians standing around all the upstairs. You'll eventually want to go here to get all the loot, but more specifically, you're likely to find a golden dragon. You're going to want to butcher its corpse to get a nice golden dragon armour. Failing that, storm dragon armour is ok, but you might be stuck with an ice dragon, regular dragon, or even a swamp dragon armour.

You cleared Snake w/o poison resistance?!?!? Holy fuck, that's a good sign you've got a winner of a character there (and that you're a winner of a player). If you have a source of clarity or levitation, you could probably do Swamp. All you need to do is kill swamp dragons until you get a swamp dragon hide. There's your armor for awhile. Pretty certain that troll claws lop off hydra heads, though, so bring a flaming weapon or get Brothers in Arms back. Your bros are very effective vs hydras.

There is food to be found in Slime, it's just all poisonous. Polymorphing would probably work out much better.

[Grendus]

I'm actually trying poison without poison resistance, just the cure poison spell. Hopefully I won't get poisoned much, between demons, ugly things, butterflies, and my growing conjurations spell it looks like the real danger here will be food - most of the snakes have inedible blood as far as I can tell.

Edit: nevermind, apparently "Your blood level is not sufficient to cast that spell". WTF!?

[Leafsnail]

I'm actually trying poison without poison resistance, just the cure poison spell. Hopefully I won't get poisoned much, between demons, ugly things, butterflies, and my growing conjurations spell it looks like the real danger here will be food - most of the snakes have inedible blood as far as I can tell.

That's actually the main reason for poison resistance outside of Swamp, Snake and Hive, imo... being able to eat poisoned meat is very useful in terms of hunger.

Also... considering how fast trolls regenerate at regen level 2, I'm pretty sure if any of my characters ever happened to gain regen level 3 they'd be unstoppable .