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[EnigmaticHat]

How am I supposed to play an octopode character? I've been starting with a melee focus; should I use magic instead?

By dying

You want to focus on light armor skills, aka stealth and/or spellcasting.  You can train melee weapons if you want but you'll never be as good as other races would be.  Aside from stabbing, you'll be pretty good at stabbing.

[frostshotgg]

Octopodes get a ridiculous bonus to stealth. They have good base stealth, they have a racial mutation that gives them an assload more stealth, and then they have a great aptitude for stealth. If you're going melee, you pretty much have to spec into stealth early and stab anything and everything.

[Arcvasti]

How am I supposed to play an octopode character? I've been starting with a melee focus; should I use magic instead?

Magic works decently. Having eight rings means you can get fire/ice + wiz while still having lots of resistances. If you have no sense of self-preservation[And you're playing an octopode, so you don't], you could just load on a bazillion spellpower enchancing rings and cross your tentacles that you won't get hit by the opposite element. Negative resistance levels don't do anything beyond the first besides make it harder to get positive again, so its not as bad as it sounds. Having 8 rings and no non-hat armour is actually straighht-up better for getting useful intrinsics then the normal set-up[4 armour slots, 2 rings]. Besides for AC, that is. That's always gonna be lacking. You can kinda compensate with SH, but its not perfect. And you won't be THAT much squishier then a Deep Elf when all is said and done. Especially one toting a robe of the Archmagi or something similar.


Started playing 0.18. First game, got my DsFi of Makh into Extended. Creamed Pan & Tomb and then started on the Hells. And decided to do Dis first, because its the easiest hell. haha not anymore. I got killed by a pack of iron giants. They're just ridiculous. Their Iron Shot is almost LCS level power and their throws are just as nasty as octopode crushers' throws used to be. I also miscast Death's Door at a critical point, which probably didn't help at all.

[Damiac]

So you remember that write up I posted on how to play a necromancer? Well, I've been trying to win a necromancer with that setup, and I want to tell everyone that my advice was just terrible.

A kobold is NOT a good pick for a necromancer.  Low HP is a bad thing to have, and necromancer doesn't really play to a kobold's strengths.  Still, after a few tries I got some decent KoNes off the ground, it's certainly doable, but the beginning is really pretty rough.

I also said Dith was a great choice because of synergy with bolt of draining.  The problem is, there's no guarantee you'll ever get bolt of draining, it's not in the starting book like I thought it was for some reason.  Dith does synergize decently well with necros, but he's not going to be a hell of a lot of help early on, when you need it most.

I think necromancers are tough in that you have to be pretty good at adapting to what comes your way, more so than many other backgrounds.  Your starting book has good utility, but pain loses it's stopping power pretty quick, so you can't just blast your way out of bad situations.  I got particularly good use out of control undead when I was struggling along with my Kobolds, it's great to control a pack of wights or some other undead, and then kill them one by one with the help of the rest of the pack.  It's also good for just controlling a single dangerous undead and telling him to (r)etreat, while you run the other way.

If you can get to a kiku altar and get 1* of piety, things get a LOT easier, since you get a very good panic button in the form of recieve corpses and animate dead.  Kikus first book gift largely overlaps with the necro starting book, but his second one will have some good stuff.  Agony and Dispel Undead are just incredible spells, if you can cast those you can take down almost anything.  Anything you can't take down, you can airdrop a horde of zombies on.

It's funny, all my necros felt like Covenant described his, rough and dirty, like a patchwork cobbled together from what the dungeon provided.  (Congrats on the win Covenant)

The recent change to blowguns (chance to poison is based on throwing skill, like all other needles always have been) has made an early blowgun find less of a boon, as you actually need to invest some XP into throwing to get decent use from them.  It makes perfect sense, but it does make the early game harder, as finding a blowgun and some needles used to virtually guarantee you'd make it to the temple at least.

My only octopode winner was an OpCK.  Octopode melee is extra powerful because you get constrict from level 1. The damage on constrict is nice, but even nicer is the fact that it ruins enemy evasion, meaning if you have a monster constricted, you are hitting him MUCH more often than usual.  Of course, the lack of AC means you're always living on the edge.  Definitely train some stealth, the returns on the investment are just incredible, and being able to simply walk away from situations you don't like the look of is incredibly powerful.

[EnigmaticHat]

Kikus first book gift largely overlaps with the necro starting book

Then why start as a necro at all? Kobold assassin well let you blowgun most enemies to death until you get Kilu's piety up.

[Damiac]

Kikus first book gift largely overlaps with the necro starting book

Then why start as a necro at all? Kobold assassin well let you blowgun most enemies to death until you get Kilu's piety up.

The reason I played as a necro was because someone mentioned having a hard time getting necromancers going, so I wanted to try my own advice to see how well it worked out.  It didn't, my advice was pretty misinformed, so I wanted to figure out a good way to play them.  One conclusion I reached is that kobolds are a bad choice for necromancers, as you say, starting out as an assassin would probably be a better move for a kobold, and you could easily transition into necromancy using Kiku if you are so inclined. 

I will say playing a weak combo like that does lead to some pretty interesting play.  You have to use every single trick at your disposal, I never realized how helpful control undead is until I played a character who was afraid of wight packs.  Using the pack to kill itself off one member at a time is very effective!

Congrats on the win Covenant, it's a lot of fun to have a streak going.  It's rare I get beyond 1 win in a row, my personal best was 4.

[Antioch]

Control undead is hilarious in the Tomb, only works on the guardian mummies, but they can really help you carve through those nasty priests and greater mummies.

[Damiac]

If you keep throwing KoNes at the dungeon, eventually one will stick.  Here is my sticky little kobold necromancer of Kiku.

I've cleared the dungeon, lair (except the lair 8 vault), and orc.  I've got semi-decent defenses, and the tools to handle almost anything I might run up against, at least in the near future.

I've got no source of fire res, which has been problematic occasionally, due to my low HPs and AC.  Hopefully I'll find a ring or something sooner or later.
A scroll of Acquirement got me the +8 quick blade of Peril {drain, rPois Str+2}.  Pretty nice, although it's a shame I can't pain brand it, since it's an artifact.  Still, it's my only source of rpois, and drain does have a flat damage component, so all in all pretty good, although it does nothing to help me against negative energy resistant enemies. 

I used a second scroll of acquirement for a book, and got enchantments.  Well, I'll probably get haste castable eventually, but in the short run that book isn't much help to me.  I was hoping to get a book with bolt of draining, agony, death channel, or something along those lines. Oh well.

So at this point I suppose my next move will be to try to clear out the lair 8 demon vault.  I'll just have to whack them repeatedly with my quick blade, maybe I'll have kiku airdrop some corpses so I can have zombie support.  I'm hoping to find a quickblade at the ending, I think there's a decent chance of it (I found a quickblade once before in this lair ending, so I know it's possible).  If I don't find a quickblade there, I'll need to seriously consider dumping the 5 enchant weapon scrolls I've found into a dagger, and pain branding that.  From what I've seen, it looks like a +0 dagger of pain has almost the same performance vs living targets as my +8 quickblade.  I don't imagine I'll have much use for the necronomicon, getting level 8 spells going will take too much XP, which I sorely need for my defenses, and I have no plans to go into extended.

Of particular note is the fact that there are two very good rods available in shops, and I can afford one of them right now.  There's a +9 rod of inaccuracy, and a +7 rod of ignition.  I just have to decide which to get first.  I will probably go with ignition, since I think that's more likely to be useful in spider, but then again all that noise can be problematic...

After all that, I'm off to spider...  Demonic crawlers are going to be a huge pain in my ass, but invisibility should mean I can manage everything else if I'm careful.  I'm going to be wishing I had agony for those giant scorpions...

Code: [Select]

Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.18-a0-1731-g08f49a8 (webtiles) character file.

damiac14 the Lord of Darkness (Kobold Necromancer) Turns: 29943, Time: 05:06:40

Health: 97/97      AC: 14    Str: 10    XL:     16   Next: 41%
Magic:  38/38      EV: 28    Int: 15    God:    Kikubaaqudgha [******]
Gold:   1838       SH:  0    Dex: 20    Spells: 9 memorised, 5 levels left

rFire  . . .      SeeInvis .    a - +8 quick blade of Peril {drain, rPois Str+2}
rCold  + . .      Gourm    .    I - +2 robe {rC+}
rNeg   . . .      Faith    .    (shield restricted)
rPois  +          Spirit   .    d - +2 helmet
rElec  .          Dismiss  .    Z - +2 cloak {+Inv}
rCorr  .          Reflect  .    s - +0 pair of gloves
SustAt .          Harm     .    p - +2 pair of boots
MR     +....                    S - amulet of regeneration
Stlth  ++++++....               P - ring of stealth
                                Y - ring of magical power

@: drained, somewhat resistant to hostile enchantments, very stealthy
A: carnivore 3
a: Receive Corpses, Torment, Brand Weapon With Pain, Receive Necronomicon,
Renounce Religion, Evoke Invisibility


You are on level 2 of the Orcish Mines.
You worship Kikubaaqudgha.
Kikubaaqudgha is exalted by your worship.
You are completely stuffed.

You have visited 3 branches of the dungeon, and seen 25 of its levels.
You have also visited: Ossuary.

You have collected 2590 gold pieces.
You have spent 752 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - the +8 quick blade of Peril (weapon) {drain, rPois Str+2}
   (You acquired it on level 6 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   A truly terrible weapon, it drains the life of those it strikes.
   
   It affects your strength (+2).
   It protects you from poison.
 b - a +0 dagger of pain
 C - a +2 dagger of venom
Missiles
 l - 686 stones (quivered)
Armour
 d - a +2 helmet (worn)
 p - a +2 pair of boots (worn)
 s - a +0 pair of gloves (worn)
 D - a runed robe
 H - a buckler
 I - a +2 robe of cold resistance (worn)
 X - a +1 robe of magic resistance
 Z - a +2 cloak of invisibility (worn)
Jewellery
 g - an uncursed ring of protection from magic
 O - an uncursed ring of see invisible
 P - a ring of stealth (right hand)
 S - an amulet of regeneration (around neck)
 Y - a ring of magical power (left hand)
Wands
 q - a wand of paralysis (7/24)
 v - a wand of lightning (1/15)
 A - a wand of disintegration
 K - a wand of digging
 W - a wand of heal wounds (3/9)
Scrolls
 e - 2 scrolls of recharging
 k - 2 scrolls of amnesia
 m - 5 scrolls of identify
 o - 11 scrolls of teleportation
 w - a scroll of blinking
 y - 6 scrolls of fog
 z - 3 scrolls of remove curse
 F - 2 scrolls of fear
 G - 4 scrolls of enchant weapon
 R - a scroll of enchant armour
 V - 4 scrolls of magic mapping
Potions
 f - a potion of invisibility
 h - 4 potions of cancellation
 i - 6 potions of flight
 j - 6 potions of heal wounds
 r - 9 potions of curing
 t - 7 potions of agility
 x - 2 potions of magic
 B - 6 potions of brilliance
 E - 3 potions of might
 N - 4 potions of resistance
 Q - 2 potions of haste
Books
 u - Kikubaaqudgha's Disquisition on Unholy Secrets
   (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 3 of the Dungeon)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Pain                         Necromancy                    1
    b - Corpse Rot                   Necromancy                    2
    c - Sublimation of Blood         Necromancy                    2
    d - Regeneration                 Charms/Necromancy             3
    e - Control Undead               Necromancy                    4
 T - Kikubaaqudgha's Incunabulum of Unholy Rituals
   (Kikubaaqudgha gifted it to you on level 9 of the Dungeon)   
   
    Spells                             Type                      Level
    a - Animate Dead                 Necromancy                    4
    b - Excruciating Wounds          Charms/Necromancy             5
    c - Cigotuvi's Embrace           Necromancy                    5
    d - Dispel Undead                Necromancy                    5
    e - Simulacrum                   Ice/Necromancy                6
Miscellaneous
 M - a sack of spiders
Comestibles
 c - 12 meat rations
 n - 5 chunks of flesh
 J - 4 slices of pizza
 L - 8 beef jerkies


   Skills:
 + Level 10.1(9.9) Fighting
 - Level 11.0(10.8) Short Blades
 - Level 13.5(13.3) Dodging
 - Level 9.9(9.7) Stealth
 * Level 4.4(4.3) Shields
 + Level 9.0(8.8) Spellcasting
 + Level 6.5(6.4) Charms
 + Level 15.3(15.1) Necromancy
 - Level 8.6(8.4) Evocations


You have 5 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Pain                  Necr           ####         1%          1    None
b - Animate Skeleton      Necr           N/A          1%          1    None
c - Vampiric Draining     Necr           ######....   1%          3    #......
d - Regeneration          Chrm/Necr      #####.....   1%          3    #......
e - Control Undead        Necr           ######....   1%          4    ###....
f - Animate Dead          Necr           N/A          1%          4    ###....
g - Sublimation of Blood  Necr           ######....   1%          2    None
h - Dispel Undead         Necr           ######..     1%          5    #####..
i - Excruciating Wounds   Chrm/Necr      #####.....   4%          5    #####..


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (0/1) D:5            Lair (8/8) D:10
 Shoals (0/4) Lair:4       Spider (0/4) Lair:4        Slime (0/6) Lair:6
    Orc (2/2) D:12            Elf (0/3) Orc:2        Vaults (0/5) D:13
 Depths (0/5) D:15       

Altars:
Ashenzari
Cheibriados
Dithmenos
Elyvilon
Fedhas
Gozag
Kikubaaqudgha
Makhleb
Nemelex Xobeh
Qazlal
Ru
Sif Muna
Vehumet
Xom
Yredelemnul
Zin
Jiyva

Shops:
D:10 }[%(}   D:12 }   D:13 *   Orc:2 %(?*

Annotations:
D:4 Sonny's ghost, amateur OgGl


Innate Abilities, Weirdness & Mutations

You are small and have problems with some larger weapons.
You are carnivorous and can eat meat at any time.
E: Quick update, Almost got killed by a stone giant on my way out of orc, luckily he ran out of large rocks before I ran out of health, but that was a close one.   I finished the lair ending, the loot was 300 gold... I decided there was no point in worrying about a pain weapon for the time being, because my artifact quickblade is my only source of rpois, so it's unlikely I'll use anything else for spider anyway.

Upon entering spider 2, I found a welcoming party consisting of Loise, Arachne, Aizul, and Kirke. Loise cannot see invisible, so that one was easy, the other 3 I stairdanced into a horde of zombie spiders.  That went surprisingly well.

A single entropy weaver managed to get me to about 1/4 health.  Those bastards don't screw around...

[Damiac]

Well... I guess me winning a KoNe was not to be.  My promising game was lost, not by me foolishly dying as usual, but because of some griefing and drama, the person running the CSZO server shut it down.  My poor little Kobold is still out there, existing as a save file on a server with no game client. 

[LordPorkins]

Lol, just played a game where i ended with almost 20 different packs of cards. My character was pretty much just throwing random cards at his enemies. Even better, i once managed to kill Sigmund hi,self with a few lucky draws! I love cards.

[TheDarkStar]

Things that I'm tired of getting killed by:
Poison on D:1-3
My own ghost on D:3
Purple-robed orcs smiting me
Green-robed orcs smiting me
My own ghost in random minibranches
Falling through three floors after starting with a promising character and getting killed
Underestimating the difficulty of a bailey or ice cave
My own ghost in the Lair or mid-dungeon
Sigmund/other named enemies at their shallowest possible depths
Hydras on D:6 when I have no flame-branded swords or skill with maces
My own ghost after getting teleported next to him with nowhere to run and no useful potions

[MaximumZero]

I usually nuke my bones files after every handful of playthroughs. Not that it helps.

[TheDarkStar]

I've learned to treat ghosts as out-of-depth monsters. Basically, I drink all my enhancement potions and hope I don't die. If I'm low on potions, I try to run.

[EnigmaticHat]

I once stepped off of a downstair to fight a skybeast and then Sigmund stepped on a teleport trap and landed on said stairway.  I survived via potion of might.

[frostshotgg]

I've actually only died to sigmund a few times. Terence (and all of my melee ghosts on D:3-5) are the bane of my existence though.