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[EnigmaticHat]

Shoals is nasty, I wouldn't feel bad about that.

[EnigmaticHat]

I'd also consider spider's nest quite bad.  But it doesn't have quite the psych-out factor that shoals has for me.  All that water that doesn't block LoS, all those ranged enemies... that aren't even bad in melee...

At least I don't have to worry about the tides drowning me any more.

[frostshotgg]

Spider's Nest is in large a rPois and SInv check from the few times I've actually gone there.

[EnigmaticHat]

Spider's nest has a lot of very fast enemies that can do nasty things to you.

As with wiki points out tho, with a good answer to poison and a high AC the only thing you've got to be afraid of is ghost moths and orb spiders.

Edit: Also, the snake den is dangerous in a different way.  Snake:5 is the first point in the game besides Orc where most characters will meet large numbers of humanoid enemies and some of the vault setups make it easy to get surrounded.  On the other hand the exp rewards are a lot bigger than beating Spider relative to how hard it is.

Whereas Shoals is pretty much a carbon copy of Swamp that's way more dangerous.

[Damiac]

Well, nobody made a recommendation, so I decided to run a Kobold Necromancer and... in the latest trunk, their book doesn't have bolt of draining anymore.  Well.... that sucks.

I don't think bolt of draining has ever been in the necromancer starting book - it used to have Dispel Undead back in 0.10 or something, and the spell that gave a temporary draining brand to your weapon (can't remember the name) was also removed.

Necromancer is a strong background because even after they got nerfed, animate skeleton and animate dead scale up very effectively as you go down into the dungeon, without requiring much skill investment. They are still useful in Zot, as the power of the allies they produce depends only on the type of corpses and not on spellpower - unlike say conjurations or summoning that need high skill levels to be effective in the late game.

You may wish to invest heavily in necromancy to get the higher level spells as well, but it is not necessary and can free up a lot of XP for other things.

I guess you're right, I don't know why I was so sure they used to get bolt of draining in the starting book.   Oh well. 
I don't like how the necromancer start doesn't give you much of a trajectory past the very early game.  You can't go nuts investing into necromancy because they don't give you much to work with in the starting book. You don't get any actual equipment to speak of.

Maybe that's my real problem with it, it's a decent enough starting kit to get you to the lair, but it's pretty wide open after that.  I suppose taking Kiku ensures you can lean more heavily into necromancy, but Kiku just seems like such a boring god.

[heydude6]

What makes Kiku more boring than say... Vehumet or Sif muna?

[frostshotgg]

Vehumet and Sif give you lots of spells of different sorts, plus their active powers are more fun. Kiku gives you the same few Necromancery spells and corpses.

[Robsoie]

Doesn't Kiku provide the always good to have "corpse delivery service", so your necromancer can field some troops when in danger or prepare some nasty army before going in a dangerous area, or has it been removed ?

[Aoi]

Best. Cloak. Ever.

-Cast rElec rPois MP-9

On a gargoyle earth mage.

[Xgamer4]

I could see that being useful for a Berserker, or anyone that absolutely, definitively, isn't going to cast spells?

[Aoi]

I mean, if I was packing a meleer that wasn't a gargoyle, or a follower of Trog, that'd be an awesome cloak.

But passive poison immunity, passive resist electricity, on a caster? Bleeeeeeeargh. Lemmie reroll to ANYTHING ELSE, and let me get that...

[frostshotgg]

I've been trying out (vampire) assassins lately trying to get a feel for the playstyle, and on one hand curare needles are broken as hell, and on the other I have no idea if/when I should upgrade from my dagger. I know daggers get special bonus to stabbing above what other short blades get, but is the starting +2 dagger better than a rapier of speed?

EDIT: Pulled a +2 dagger of electricity off an Orc Wizard. I assume that beats a rapier of speed by a large margin for stabbing, so what should I keep my eye out for next, or should I just start dumping enchant weapon scrolls onto this?

[beorn080]

Having started a Mummy Necromancer, I think they're definitely a bit weak. Skeletons and zombies will decay to nothing automatically now, which means they really only have pain and draining as effective and reliable abilities. Especially as corpses seem to be much rarer then they used to be. I feel as though a low end version of haunt might fill the gap. Perhaps something that summoned phantoms or some other low end ghost. Otherwise, I don't think it makes any sense to start as a necromancer, as nothing in the starting book is truly worthwhile in the long run, except maybe regeneration.

[heydude6]

EDIT: Pulled a +2 dagger of electricity off an Orc Wizard. I assume that beats a rapier of speed by a large margin for stabbing, so what should I keep my eye out for next, or should I just start dumping enchant weapon scrolls onto this?

Quickblades my friend, wait for quick blades.

They have higher base damage than daggers, they have a higher attack speed, and they get the same stabbing bonus. Be warned that they are very rare, meaning you'll only have them in the late-game unless you're super lucky.

Also, enchant weapon scrolls don't really matter that much for daggers. If you're doing it right, you should only be using a dagger for stabbing. Your stealth and weapon skills have magnitudes of a larger impact on stabbing damage than enchant weapon scrolls ever will.

If you have to actually fight enemies head-on, switch to a shortsword or rapier (once you reach minimum delay on those). Of course, this last bit of advice is invalidated if you have superior brands (only electricity, distortion, and chaos count for this btw. Damage bonus from fire and freeze are negligible for shortblades) and enchantments. Electricity is one of the best brands in the game for shortblades though, so your dagger is probably gonna be your go-to weapon for now.

Quickblades are the best shortblade period. If you are ever lucky enough to find one, dump all your enchant and brand weapon scrolls on it. They are the best weapon for both stabbing and head-on combat.

[frostshotgg]

Lost that character in L:4 to a wolf spider who decided to visit from spiderland when I was busy dealing with a 10-headed hydra that woke up before I stabbed it and it killed me before my tp scroll freed me. Feels bad man.