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[EnigmaticHat]

So my Hill Orc Fighter of Beogh just found the +3 Elemental Staff (rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5) on D:6. I've been building towards Axes, and Hill Orcs have a -1 aptitude for Staves, and I'm generally shit at this game and I've never used Staves before. My worry is that I'll be underpowered if I try to invest in Staves at this juncture, as I'm working on Evocations so I can blast my way past Lair Hydras; do you think I should delay switching until I get some meatshields at the least, or do I just thank the RNG and carry on?

If you use that to fight you're probably going to die.

What I'd recommend?  Train throwing.  See a threat that requires one of those resists, equip the staff and throw shit at it.  Throwing works perfectly fine at melee range, aside from that pesky ammo cost, and you'll get all the benefits of the staff with none of the offensive weakness.

[Arcvasti]

So my Hill Orc Fighter of Beogh just found the +3 Elemental Staff (rElec rF++ rC++ MR++ AC+5) on D:6. I've been building towards Axes, and Hill Orcs have a -1 aptitude for Staves, and I'm generally shit at this game and I've never used Staves before. My worry is that I'll be underpowered if I try to invest in Staves at this juncture, as I'm working on Evocations so I can blast my way past Lair Hydras; do you think I should delay switching until I get some meatshields at the least, or do I just thank the RNG and carry on?

I wouldn't invest in it, at least not just yet. I'd keep it as a quick swap for doing stuff like charging or running away from critters with dangerous elemental/magic attacks, though. I got that same staff with a MiFi mace user in Zot and got decent mileage out of it as an auxiliary weapon even as far as the Hells[Mostly for when I needed more resists or I was facing something holy wrath didn't work on].

[Micro102]

Speaking of that elemental staff, I got 3 early scrolls of acquirement on an assassin with like, 9 skill in short swords, first scroll gives me that staff.....Why? You should never get an item you have no skill in.

[Sarrak]

Speaking of that elemental staff, I got 3 early scrolls of acquirement on an assassin with like, 9 skill in short swords, first scroll gives me that staff.....Why? You should never get an item you have no skill in.

Maybe game decided that you have subpar resists? Also, great item that you're unskilled with is preferrable to some slightly above-average trash.

[Aoi]

Speaking of that elemental staff, I got 3 early scrolls of acquirement on an assassin with like, 9 skill in short swords, first scroll gives me that staff.....Why? You should never get an item you have no skill in.

Maybe game decided that you have subpar resists? Also, great item that you're unskilled with is preferrable to some slightly above-average trash.

On the other hand, sometimes above average trash is an upgrade from what you've got. I recently lost a 7-rune gargoyle fighter in the orb room because the best armor I found was... +3 plate of cold resistance.

Didn't even get armor scrolls to make a dragon armor. ><

[Arcvasti]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup version 0.17-a0-2220-g6fea741 (tiles) character file.

cats the Archmage (High Elf Fire Elementalist)    Turns: 101098, Time: 05:53:37

HP:   195/195 (198) AC: 33    Str: 14    XL:     27
MP:   55/55         EV: 18    Int: 31    God:    the Shining One [******]
Gold: 5307          SH:  9    Dex: 20    Spells: 18 memorised, 18 levels left

rFire  + + .     SeeInvis .     b - staff of fire
rCold  + . .     Clarity  .     T - +7 swamp dragon armour
rNeg   + + +     SustAt   .     w - +3 buckler {AC+3}
rPois  +         Gourm    .     I - +2 hat
rElec  .         Spirit   .     L - +2 cloak {MR+}
rCorr  .         Warding  .     z - +2 pair of gloves of the Amoeba {*Drain rN+ Regen+ Str+7}
rMut   +         Stasis   .     D - +2 pair of boots of the Assassin {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}
MR     +++..                    C - amulet of resist mutation
Stlth  ++........               q - ring of wizardry
                                o - ring "Zatha" {rF+ rC+}

@: delayed fireball, glowing, deflect missiles, extremely resistant to hostile
enchantments, unstealthy
A: hooves 1, horns 1, icy blue scales 1, blurry vision 1, shaggy fur 1, wild
magic 1
a: Divine Shield, Cleansing Flame, Summon Divine Warrior, Renounce Religion,
Release Delayed Fireball
}: 5/15 runes: decaying, slimy, silver, abyssal, gossamer


You are on level 2 of the Lair of Beasts.
You worship the Shining One.
The Shining One is exalted by your worship.
You are not hungry.

You have visited 12 branches of the dungeon, and seen 59 of its levels.
You have visited the Abyss 1 time.
You have visited 1 bazaar.
You have also visited: Labyrinth and Trove.

You have collected 9378 gold pieces.
You have spent 4071 gold pieces at shops.

Inventory:

Hand Weapons
 a - a +9 eudemon blade of holy wrath
 V - the +8 autumn katana {slice, Clar}
   (You took it off a spriggan druid on level 4 of the Swamp)   
   
   It inflicts extra damage upon your enemies.
   
   It protects you against confusion.
Missiles
 e - 4 throwing nets (quivered)
Armour
 w - a +3 buckler of protection (worn)
 z - the +2 pair of gloves of the Amoeba (worn) {*Drain rN+ Regen+ Str+7}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   It affects your strength (+7).
   It protects you from negative energy.
   It increases your rate of regeneration.
   It causes draining when unequipped.
 D - the +2 pair of boots of the Assassin (worn) {DetectMon Stab+ Stlth++}
   (You found it on level 3 of the Crypt)   
   
   It makes you much more stealthy.
 I - a +2 hat (worn)
 L - a +2 cloak of magic resistance (worn)
 T - a +7 swamp dragon armour (worn)
Magical Staves
 b - an uncursed staff of fire (weapon)
 d - an uncursed staff of energy
Rods
 c - a +9 iron rod (17/17)
   (You found it in a labyrinth)
Jewellery
 g - an uncursed amulet of resist corrosion
 m - an uncursed ring of sustain attributes
 o - the ring "Zatha" (left hand) {rF+ rC+}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 1 of the Elven Halls)   
   
   [ring of protection from cold]
   
   It protects you from fire.
   It protects you from cold.
 q - a ring of wizardry (right hand)
 v - the ring "Toivum" {rF++ EV+2}
   (You bought it in a shop on level 3 of the Orcish Mines)   
   
   [ring of evasion]
   
   It affects your evasion (+2).
   It greatly protects you from fire.
 C - an amulet of resist mutation (around neck)
 G - the ring of Demons {rElec MR+ Dex+10}
   (You found it on level 4 of the Lair of Beasts)   
   
   [ring of protection from magic]
   
   It affects your dexterity (+10).
   It insulates you from electricity.
   It affects your resistance to hostile enchantments.
Wands
 t - a wand of hasting (5)
 x - a wand of lightning (7)
 E - a wand of teleportation (3)
 M - a wand of heal wounds (8)
 P - a wand of cold (4)
Scrolls
 h - 15 scrolls of magic mapping
 i - 6 scrolls of identify
 k - 19 scrolls of fog
 s - 18 scrolls of remove curse
 A - 2 scrolls of recharging
 B - 9 scrolls of fear
 F - 17 scrolls of teleportation
 J - 4 scrolls of holy word
 N - 12 scrolls of blinking
 U - 2 scrolls of summoning
Potions
 j - 4 potions of resistance
 n - 10 potions of ambrosia
 p - 6 potions of heal wounds
 u - 17 potions of curing
 y - 10 potions of brilliance
 O - 2 potions of haste
 Q - 7 potions of lignification
 R - 6 potions of cancellation
 S - 2 potions of magic
 X - 2 potions of berserk rage
Miscellaneous
 r - a phial of floods
 W - 5 phantom mirrors
 Y - a legendary deck of defence {the Alchemist}
Comestibles
 f - 28 meat rations


   Skills:
 + Level 18.8 Fighting
 - Level 12.4 Long Blades
 - Level 8.1 Armour
 - Level 10.0 Dodging
 - Level 2.1 Stealth
 - Level 4.1 Shields
 O Level 27 Spellcasting
 + Level 20.9 Conjurations
 + Level 19.5 Fire Magic
 + Level 21.6 Air Magic
 - Level 11.1 Evocations


You have 18 spell levels left.
You know the following spells:

 Your Spells              Type           Power        Failure   Level  Hunger
a - Flame Tongue          Conj/Fire      #####        1%          1    None
b - Conjure Flame         Conj/Fire      ########     1%          3    None
c - Sticky Flame          Conj/Fire      ########     1%          4    None
d - Fireball              Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          5    None
e - Magic Dart            Conj           ####         1%          1    None
f - Shock                 Conj/Air       ####         1%          1    None
g - Bolt of Fire          Conj/Fire      #########.   1%          6    None
h - Irradiate          Conj/Trmt      ########..   1%          5    None
i - Orb of Destruction    Conj           ########..   1%          7    None
j - Repel Missiles        Chrm/Air       ######       1%          2    None
k - Swiftness             Chrm/Air       ########     1%          2    None
l - Apportation           Tloc           ######....   1%          1    None
m - Blink                 Tloc           N/A          1%          2    None
n - Summon Butterflies    Summ           ######..     1%          1    None
o - Deflect Missiles      Chrm/Air       ########..   2%          6    None
p - Tornado               Air            ########..   12%         9    ####...
q - Delayed Fireball      Conj/Fire      N/A          1%          7    None
r - Airstrike             Air            ########..   1%          4    None


Dungeon Overview and Level Annotations

Branches:
Dungeon (15/15)            Temple (1/1) D:4            Lair (8/8) D:8
  Swamp (4/4) Lair:3       Spider (4/4) Lair:3        Slime (6/6) Lair:6
    Orc (4/4) D:12            Elf (3/3) Orc:3        Vaults (5/5) D:14
  Crypt (3/3) Vaults:2       Tomb (0/3) Crypt:3      Depths (5/5) D:15
   Hell (1/1)                 Dis (0/7) Hell            Geh (0/7) Hell
    Coc (0/7) Hell            Tar (0/7) Hell            Zot (0/5) Depths:5


I've finally got a good mage run going, after about a bazillion tries. I tried High Elf instead of Draconian, to get that spellpower up high, and GOODNESS that was a good decision. I got through Vault/Depths just fine, which is where my Draconian blasters usually start hitting their fatal damage hump. I also managed to switch to TSO from Vehumet non-fatally[Although Vehumet still has 1-4 more surprises for me, so I might still get LCSed to death]. Thing is, I lack Fire Storm. Vehumet gave me Glaciate instead and I haven't found a Book of Annihilations yet. Plus my aux armour slots could be better and my Int isn't the highest [3-4 random Int boosts early, followed by almost nothing but Dex]. I'm not entirely sure what to do next. Pan could be dicey without Fire Storm to fill the gaps in my offensive wrecking machine, a Zig wouldn't be much safer and Zot has fukkin death cobz. Tomb is out of the question entirely and the Hells aren't any better. I'm almost debating going for a cheap five-runer, but I really want to try out TSO-mage in Extended.


Mostly unrelated:

I picked up Irradiate on a whim, since I was swimming in scrolls of amnesia and lacking other good offense spells. And oh BOY does it pack a punch. Its my GET OFF OF MY LAWN spell of choice now, besides maybe Tornado/Shatter. I am taking this on ALL my Conjurers and Transmuters alike from now on. Its that good. The contamination will probably be annoying once I get Haste consistently castable and use that more, but its still an absurdly robust attack.

EDIT:

Alright, crisis averted. I did Zot 1-4, using up my only cure mutation potion in the process. I found a randart rMut amulet with +6 Int and got Fire Storm 11 levels into a Ziggurat. I should be ready to just sort of do Pan now.

[Scoops Novel]

How long does it take most people to win?

[Antioch]

How long does it take most people to win?

Do you mean to complete a winning game, or to win for the first time after trying the game?

I take around 4 hours to win a 3 rune game and 8-12 hours to win a 15 rune.

Took quite a while to get my first win, went through many dozens of characters, but most died pretty early.

[EnigmaticHat]

How long does it take most people to win?

Probably like ten hours for a 3 rune.

I get very focus mode when I play this game tho so the passage of time loses some meaning.

[Arcvasti]

How long does it take most people to win?

Depends. I usually only go for 15-runers, you could win a fair bit more quickly with less runes. I've won in nine hours with a Naga Transmuter of Chei, but my current game has lasted ten hours so far and is still missing two runes. I've also only won a few times. Judging by my mediocre performance in the tournament, other people in this thread are probably better then me at this game, so take with a grain of salt. In the 0.17 tournament, one guy got a[3-rune] win in less then an hour with a Hill Orc Berserker. There've probably been faster wins, but I'd say that's still up there. Speedrunning Crawl is a completely different type of thing to do then just kinda playing it, though.

[heydude6]

Deleted because didn't read properly

[Micro102]

I reached my first Orb of Zot recently. It was hell. A Daeva and Balrug spawned before I took 5 steps. I died before I left the floor. I cannot imagine surviving all the way tot he exit. How do you fight these things? I was a minotaur fighter with artifact crystal armor, heavy resistances, a couple of skills maxed out..... I don't get it.

[EnigmaticHat]

I reached my first Orb of Zot recently. It was hell. A Daeva and Balrug spawned before I took 5 steps. I died before I left the floor. I cannot imagine surviving all the way tot he exit. How do you fight these things? I was a minotaur fighter with artifact crystal armor, heavy resistances, a couple of skills maxed out..... I don't get it.

In my case I apported the orb to the staircase (despite not being a caster, so it took a while), then used wands of digging and level annotations to plot out the fastest route to the surface.  That being said, the character I won with wasn't especially min-maxed and it still felt easy enough.

The main defense against demons is to kill them quickly and have a lot of health.  AC and SH are only so useful due to their various magic attacks, EV helps but in the end most of them have smiting attacks that just damage you, plain and simple.  The key points are the ability to do a lot of damage to anything you can see, and a big beefy health pool.  In terms of resists they have everything with a slight emphasis on fire so as many resists as possible is good but it won't save you.

As a Minotaur fighter tho you should have had plenty of health and been capable of plenty of damage.  If you didn't have any form of ranged attack I could see the problem.  Otherwise... I dunno; with my characters that have gotten that far Orbs of Fire are far scarier than demons and I assume you found a way to take those out.

Edit: Playing as "Goreslash the Just" a minotaur of Zin.  Had a brain fart and attempted to type "armor" into a scroll of acquirement, and thus gained the perfect weapon for him.  "Impslayer" a bloodstained but polished executioner's axe that makes him stronger and lights enemies on fire.  Sadly its only enchanted to +1, but its so thematically appropriate I'm going to give it a try.

[Damiac]

Once you pick up the orb (Or apport it, I believe) the orb run starts, and random demonic enemies will spawn in... randomly.  It also makes a huge noise, and cuts your stealth in half.

So, the first concern when picking up the orb is the stuff already on the level, as anything nearby is going to come investigate all the noise.  Of course, if you fought your way to the orb, then at least half the orb chamber is clear already, so you're mostly concerned with what comes out of the other half.  On top of that, stuff is going to randomly spawn in.
The solution to this is not to stand and fight, at least, not if you can help it.  For the most part, your first move after picking up the orb should be to haste yourself, via potion, wand, or spell.  Then start running toward the upstairs.  Zot 5 is the most dangerous part of the orb run, you want to get off this floor ASAP.

Now, if things start getting dicey (for example, smiting or hellfiring demons all over you) don't hesitate to teleport.  Typically at this point of the game, you're going to have lots of teleport scrolls, and maybe a wand or two.  Basically, teleport if too many enemies are around, and then make your way to the nearest staircase.  Repeat if necessary.

Once you get out of Zot 5, it gets a bit easier typically, because the staircases are generally going to be easier to get to.  But use the same strategy as before, haste to get away from dangerous enemies, do as little fighting as possible, and if things get ugly, teleport.  If you've got wand(s) of digging, don't hesitate to use them to make a shorter path to the staircase.

It sounds like you got a particularly tough orb run, which is too bad, it sucks to die there.  But at least you should know it's not usually too hard. Usually if you just keep moving, you can just walk right through each floor all the way to the top.

I would disagree with advice to apport the orb to the staircase, I believe the devs changed it so that starts the bad stuff just like picking it up does, so there's nothing to be gained by apporting it.
You can pre-dig paths for the orb run if you want, I never have, but if you're feeling especially paranoid it might at least give you a little peace of mind.  Just realize that bad stuff can spawn in Zot and the depths, and the more time you spend screwing around digging tunnels, the more chance something bad might happen.

[Scoops Novel]

How long does it take most people to win?

Do you mean to complete a winning game, or to win for the first time after trying the game?

I take around 4 hours to win a 3 rune game and 8-12 hours to win a 15 rune.

Took quite a while to get my first win, went through many dozens of characters, but most died pretty early.

I mean after first trying the game. I've been on and off for months and i've got no further then the orcish mines.