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[DJ]

So yeah, TSO is pretty much the only worthwhile good god?

[Kagus]

For endgame potential, yeah.  TSO can't really be beat as far as that's concerned.  Elyvilon has her good points though.  TSO is nice if you want to cause more destruction among their ranks, Elyvilon is nice if you already have the offensive capabilities but would really like some healing and defensive abilities.

[DJ]

IMO TSO does a pretty good job with defence if you're using a shield.

[Rex_Nex]

TSO is nice but he's actually probably the worst "good" god. Endgame potential is great, but there's the other three quarters of the game to deal with too, and TSO kinda sucks both outside of the endgame and at the lower piety levels. If you want to stay with the good gods, you're better off with Ely (and probably Zin) and then switching before Crypt or somesuch.

Okawaru/Trog/Makhleb/Lugonu -> TSO is even better, imho, as the "no penance" thing for switching between good gods isn't really a big deal lategame. Ely takes a bit too long to get off the ground, and while I was under the impression Zin is pretty good, if recent changes made him otherwise I don't see a huge reason not to take another god. Meanwhile Trog is easymode, Okawaru is great as soon as you get a few stars, Makhleb provides very nice abilities to round out a melee character, and Lugonu is solid in general due to banish being able to deal with a lot of the early/mid game big threats and Corrupt trivializing the hardest vaults/levels.

[miauw62]

I don't really like Lugonu because Banish is fairly boring imho. Even if it's very effective, it lets you basically erase monsters from existance.

[MaximumZero]

Teleporting out of the Abyss is extremely useful, though.

[miauw62]

Was idling in crawl when suddenly this:

<Sequell> gooserobin[1/1]: 78291 has 2 consecutive wins (FoIE, GrAs).

[Leafsnail]

I loved Zin when you could actually choose what to recite and when it used to be marginally more effective. He was basically an undead/demon crowd control and support god with a great escape option which allowed you to take the edge of most battles.

Now he does seem a lot worse somehow. I'm not sure what has happened, but he now just seems completely ineffective, especially late game when it just seems to give you the most minor of effects when you can't really waste the turns to recite.

Looking through the changelog I don't see any nerfs, so Zin's new recitation is actually strictly better than the old one (except maybe a few monsters had their books changed to a less effective one for flavour consistency?).  It just automatically hits each monster with the correct book, basically.

So yeah, TSO is pretty much the only worthwhile good god?

No.  Ely is massively overpowered during the non-extended game (healing + instant kill button), although admittedly she is pretty horrible to play.  Zin is pretty good for extended too, you get mutation resistance, immunity from hell effects, a very cheap crowd-control ability (it's not surprising it doesn't work that well on a strong unique considering how cheap it is) and two very powerful escape abilities.

[Retropunch]

I loved Zin when you could actually choose what to recite and when it used to be marginally more effective. He was basically an undead/demon crowd control and support god with a great escape option which allowed you to take the edge of most battles.

Now he does seem a lot worse somehow. I'm not sure what has happened, but he now just seems completely ineffective, especially late game when it just seems to give you the most minor of effects when you can't really waste the turns to recite.

Looking through the changelog I don't see any nerfs, so Zin's new recitation is actually strictly better than the old one (except maybe a few monsters had their books changed to a less effective one for flavour consistency?).  It just automatically hits each monster with the correct book, basically.

From what I remember, the effects were shuffled around a bit, with some of the harsher ones removed due to the power of getting everything in sight with one recite. It makes sense because as you say, crowd control is pretty great, I just feel that it was better when it was stronger and more targeted effect.

[Leafsnail]

The only change listed for Recite in 0.15 is

Zin's Recite no longer prompts for a book, instead affecting all monsters in sight with the strongest effects that would impact them.

Checking through the changelog it seems like some of the old trunk versions may have accidentally used the weakest set of effects instead, could you be playing on one of those?

[Retropunch]

The only change listed for Recite in 0.15 is

Zin's Recite no longer prompts for a book, instead affecting all monsters in sight with the strongest effects that would impact them.

Checking through the changelog it seems like some of the old trunk versions may have accidentally used the weakest set of effects instead, could you be playing on one of those?

Yeah, I haven't played Zin for a while so it might have changed since an earlier trunk - glad it's turned back as getting endless 'illuminations' wasn't really of much help.

[Dwarfurious]

They removed Mountain Dwarf Terrible. I played this a bit as a Deep Dwarf or whatever they were called, eventually moved onto Tales of Maj'Eyal for a roguelike, im sure its been mentioned in this HUGE thread. Its also got a premium class thats Dwarf only dual shield wielding badass.

[Parsely]

Ow, getting banished sucks. Didn't even know Eustachio could do that.

That was my first time inside the Abyss and it was the coolest experience ever. What SSG and I were really unsure about is if there's even a way out of the Abyss if you're not an AK. There were portals "leading deeper" scattered everywhere but obviously I didn't want to go deeper into the Abyss, but I speculated that maybe if I went further I'd get tele'd out somehow or I'd find a portal leading out, but more and more I'm thinking it's impossible to escape.

[miauw62]

Ow, getting banished sucks. Didn't even know Eustachio could do that.

That was my first time inside the Abyss and it was the coolest experience ever. What SSG and I were really unsure about is if there's even a way out of the Abyss if you're not an AK. There were portals "leading deeper" scattered everywhere but obviously I didn't want to go deeper into the Abyss, but I speculated that maybe if I went further I'd get tele'd out somehow or I'd find a portal leading out, but more and more I'm thinking it's impossible to escape.

IIRC portals to exit the Abyss spawn randomly. The deeper you go, the more common they become but the harder the enemies get.

[Parsely]

Ow, getting banished sucks. Didn't even know Eustachio could do that.

That was my first time inside the Abyss and it was the coolest experience ever. What SSG and I were really unsure about is if there's even a way out of the Abyss if you're not an AK. There were portals "leading deeper" scattered everywhere but obviously I didn't want to go deeper into the Abyss, but I speculated that maybe if I went further I'd get tele'd out somehow or I'd find a portal leading out, but more and more I'm thinking it's impossible to escape.

IIRC portals to exit the Abyss spawn randomly. The deeper you go, the more common they become but the harder the enemies get.

Okay sweet, my vidja gam instincts were correct.