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[Retropunch]

so i shouldnt try any axes at all until i get executioner drops? If i try something without ID I can get a distortion and then take off and game over.

As others have said, it's so rare it's not worth worrying about. Distortion is very strong anyway, so if you get distortion on a war/battle axe it'll take you through till you can deal with the abyss (after lair you should be ok) unless it has horrible negative enchantments (-3/4).

As a side note, is there any point taking unarmed for a minotaur? does it do give more damage to headbuts?

[Mindmaker]

It's also true that there used to be a breakpoint with strength with archers but that's gone now.

I'd like a source on that.
Ranged combat used to be a damn enigma with lot of myths flying around.
If they reworked it and actually made it more transparent, that might be the first good change in ages (for me).
Although I heard that slings are beyond useless now.

I'll probably do my own testing with armour sometime soon. Supposedly it really didn't do much to change the attribute choices of people who end up using the regular dragon armours which are the ones people most commonly ascend with.

[Leafsnail]

Crossbows and longbows are also currently hugely overpowered.  I don't have a source on it right now but you can find it in the trunk log.

I'll probably do my own testing with armour sometime soon. Supposedly it really didn't do much to change the attribute choices of people who end up using the regular dragon armours which are the ones people most commonly ascend with.

I don't understand what you mean.  If by "regular dragon armours" you mean "mottled" then yeah, it's probably not worth upping strength for that.  But for anything heavier strength is a significant factor, particularly if you're starting from low strength.

e: although actually dex might make more sense with Trog for species that start with a reasonable amount of strength, since boosting spell success in heavy armours is also part of Str

[monk12]

Code: [Select]


13616190 monk12 the Bringer of Light (level 27, 198/199 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fighter on June 2, 2014.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on June 10, 2014!

First ever 15 rune win. Feels good. Now to do it with a not baby class combo.

[tompliss]

As a side note, is there any point taking unarmed for a minotaur? does it do give more damage to headbuts?

Nope.
Unarmed is used when you attack without a weapon in at least one of your hand (so when you wield no weapon, or a 1-hand weapon and no shield).

[Robsoie]

the knowledge bot tells :

Auxiliary attacks are /extra/ melee attacks using body parts. You can get auxiliary attacks by having hooves, horns, talons, fangs, a beak, or a large muscular tail. Unarmed Combat skill does not affect these. However, if you have Unarmed Combat skill and are not using a shield or two-handed weapon, you do get an offhand punch.

Base damage: Kick: 5 + (hooves mutation level * 5 / 3) + (1 + talons mutation level) + (tentacle spike mutation level) | Headbutt: 5 + (horns mutation level * 3) | Peck: 6 | Tail-slap: 6 + (stinger mutation level * 2 - 1 [venom branded]) |

| Punch: 5 + UC skill / 3 + (6 with blade hands) + (claws mutation level)d3 with claws (does not stack with blade hands) | Bite: (fangs mutation level * 2) + (str - 10) / 5; + 2d4 with acidic bite mutation (and possible corrosion) | Pseudopods: 4 * (pseudopod mutation level) | Squeeze: 12

[DeKaFu]

So, I've picked up 14.1 and am trying two of my favourite combos: Draconian Transmuters and Demonspawn Assassins.

I'm not doing very well in the early game and I suspect part of my problem is skill choice. For the DrTrs I'm focusing on Unarmed, then Transmutations or Dodging. For the DsAs I'm doing Stealth, then Dodging, a bit of Short Blades and then more Stealth.

I've been training only one skill at a time (easier to keep track of and it goes up faster) but don't really have a good idea of when to switch my focus or which skills to prioritize. This usually sinks in when hard-hitting things start showing up and my EV is still worthless. I also intend to invest in Fighting and Inv/Evo depending on god choice but rarely get that far.

Tips?

[Retropunch]

So, I've picked up 14.1 and am trying two of my favourite combos: Draconian Transmuters and Demonspawn Assassins.

I'm not doing very well in the early game and I suspect part of my problem is skill choice. For the DrTrs I'm focusing on Unarmed, then Transmutations or Dodging. For the DsAs I'm doing Stealth, then Dodging, a bit of Short Blades and then more Stealth.

I've been training only one skill at a time (easier to keep track of and it goes up faster) but don't really have a good idea of when to switch my focus or which skills to prioritize. This usually sinks in when hard-hitting things start showing up and my EV is still worthless. I also intend to invest in Fighting and Inv/Evo depending on god choice but rarely get that far.

Tips?

Concentrate a lot more on your offensive skills. For both assassins and transmuters, they're rather 'utility' based classes to start with, so they need some good offensive training. For transmuters, you definitely want to get unarmed good, with just enough put into transmutations to get the next spell working. As you won't need to spam cast stuff, it doesn't matter if things are at around 15% faliure rate. Assassins need to train throwing for darts and get short blades up as well.
I'd spread your xp around as well - assassins could definitely have stealth, short blades and dodging on and transmuters could go with unarmed, dodging on 'strong' (double press so it lights up) and transmutation on low.

Although I hate to say it, have you tried some of the easier classes, especially for assassins? Spriggans and kobolds are a lot better suited, and getting them off the ground first will help a lot. Transmuters are generally challenging and need a lot of use of consumables/tools to get them off the ground.

[Dr Feelgood]

Code: [Select]


13616190 monk12 the Bringer of Light (level 27, 198/199 HPs)
             Began as a Gargoyle Fighter on June 2, 2014.
             Was the Champion of the Shining One.
             Escaped with the Orb
             ... and 15 runes on June 10, 2014!

First ever 15 rune win. Feels good. Now to do it with a not baby class combo.

Congrats! Why did you max out shields?

So, I've picked up 14.1 and am trying two of my favourite combos: Draconian Transmuters and Demonspawn Assassins.

I'm not doing very well in the early game and I suspect part of my problem is skill choice. For the DrTrs I'm focusing on Unarmed, then Transmutations or Dodging. For the DsAs I'm doing Stealth, then Dodging, a bit of Short Blades and then more Stealth.

I've been training only one skill at a time (easier to keep track of and it goes up faster) but don't really have a good idea of when to switch my focus or which skills to prioritize. This usually sinks in when hard-hitting things start showing up and my EV is still worthless. I also intend to invest in Fighting and Inv/Evo depending on god choice but rarely get that far.

Tips?

Learn all the spells in your starting book. Train UC up to 11, then turn it off. Focus on other skills. Turn UC back on. Use beastly appendage for the 1st couple of levels, then ignore it. It sucks. Use spider form against poison-vulnerable enemies, and ice form against cold-blooded enemies (read: hydras). Once you get blade hands, you're pretty much set.

Best gods: Okawaru, Fedhas, Nemelex, Makhleb, and Sif (if you really want dragon form...)

Edit: Sticks to Snakes is useful for assisting in tough battles. Spam enough snakes and you can even take down hydras with it. Oh, and ice form is useful in the shoals.

[tompliss]

Congrats! Why did you max out shields?

Shield skill improves the Divine Shield ability from TSO. 27 skill may be too much (or rather, the difference between 20 and 27 would not save your life as easily as the difference between 20 dodging and 27 dodging), on the other hand.

[DeKaFu]

[snip]

[words]

This is exactly the sort of advice I needed. Thanks

Assassins need to train throwing for darts and get short blades up as well.

These are two I was really wondering about. People usually say throwing is useless, but I'm guessing this is the one exception. How high is reasonable though?
I was also holding off somewhat on Short Blades because the stuff it helps with (attack speed, slight damage increase) seemed less important than on other weapons, given they're going to be fast and low damage anyway (unless being stabbed with).

Although I hate to say it, have you tried some of the easier classes, especially for assassins?

I have, and usually do a lot better with them. But I like entertaining the idea of someday getting my first win with a combo that I particularly enjoy rather than one that's stronger/easier.

[tompliss]

Stealth and Short blade skills had the same weight in how high the damage multiplier from stabbing was, last time I checked.
So you'll want to increase both your Short blade skill and your stealth skill to stab.
Stealth is more important in the early game (because you ned not to wake up the mosnter), but you'll need more short sword skill to increase your chances to 1-hit kill, and to have nice damage in case you don't 1-hit kill.

[Dr Feelgood]

Congrats! Why did you max out shields?

Shield skill improves the Divine Shield ability from TSO. 27 skill may be too much (or rather, the difference between 20 and 27 would not save your life as easily as the difference between 20 dodging and 27 dodging), on the other hand.

I know. Going from 20 to 27 takes an enormous amount of exp, which could have raised multiple skills by several levels. He also maxed out invocations. Having some utility spells could have made the game much easier.

[Leafsnail]

Although I hate to say it, have you tried some of the easier classes, especially for assassins? Spriggans and kobolds are a lot better suited, and getting them off the ground first will help a lot. Transmuters are generally challenging and need a lot of use of consumables/tools to get them off the ground.

I don't think I'd suggest any Kobold as an easy game, they get -2HP and very little in return.  Halflings are better due to their increased HP, even with their recent trunk nerf.

[Retropunch]

Although I hate to say it, have you tried some of the easier classes, especially for assassins? Spriggans and kobolds are a lot better suited, and getting them off the ground first will help a lot. Transmuters are generally challenging and need a lot of use of consumables/tools to get them off the ground.

I don't think I'd suggest any Kobold as an easy game, they get -2HP and very little in return.  Halflings are better due to their increased HP, even with their recent trunk nerf.

Sorry, was thinking back to old versions - definitely better for halflings or spriggans. Spriggans make good assassins/anything due to their fast speed and small size,

These are two I was really wondering about. People usually say throwing is useless, but I'm guessing this is the one exception. How high is reasonable though?
I was also holding off somewhat on Short Blades because the stuff it helps with (attack speed, slight damage increase) seemed less important than on other weapons, given they're going to be fast and low damage anyway (unless being stabbed with).

As far as training throwing up, I don't know whats optimal, but it's definitely worth getting it to 4-5 just so you don't miss as much. Going as a spriggan means you can endlessly kite and poison stuff to death - others still work with this in a more careful manner. Short blades and stealth now both contribute to stabbing, so it's worth getting both up, and in general there will become a time when you need to go toe-to-toe with stuff. As long as you can get it up to 'quite fast' when you press the @ key, then that's high enough.

Have you tried going as an enchanter instead of an assassin? They're basically the same play-style, but you get a lot more flexibility from spells. You'll be able to sleep/confuse pretty much everything till mid game which makes stabbing much easier.