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Author Topic: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.  (Read 1680960 times)

beorn080

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11445 on: November 09, 2013, 01:23:15 am »

It won't, but magical staffs are actually pretty crappy weapons. If you have the appropriate elemental (and weapon) skill trained they can do decent damage, but they don't really scale (as you can never enchant them). That said, they are probably better then nothing for a pure caster.
From what I understand, something like a staff of fire with 27 in fire skill is a fairly potent weapon for not investing anything in it, except maybe a few levels in staves. Is it equal to a triple sword of holy wrath? No. But as a caster weapon they're pretty bad ass.
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motorbitch

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11446 on: November 09, 2013, 02:20:05 am »

djiniis. what a total bullshit this race is.
mana = hp, spells costs are doubled.
basically, as far as i got, ive always been one hitted. the only choice is to nuke myself or not to attack.
i have no idea if they get any better later on, but after 4 death with deepest i got was d2, i decided im not masocistic enough to explore this topic any further.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 02:22:02 am by motorbitch »
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Robsoie

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11447 on: November 09, 2013, 02:30:33 am »

Yeah, i tried Djins before they were removed for the 0.13 release and couldn't understand how you're supposed to keep the thing alive. Cast a spell and you're hurting yourself, miscast a spell and you're hurting yourself + you can get additionally hurt by the miscast effect.
Get hurt and you then lose not only health but your mana (as they're the same bar) , preventing you to cast more.


For the elemental staves
On the bot it says
Quote
Enhancer staves (fire, cold, air, earth, death) have (2*evoc + magic skill)/30 chance of getting random2(1.25*(magic skill + evoc/2)) extra damage that ignores AC (except earth), but checks the appropriate resistance. Air also needs to pass a (damage dealt + air + 1)/20 chance.

If i understand well those formula

By example evocation 15 and elemental skill 15
You have (( 30+15 )/30) = 1.5 chances (i hope it means 150% , not 1.5% of triggering the effect) of getting the extra damage that would be ((15+7.5)*1.25=28.125)  between 0 and 28 extra damage (+ the 5 damages of the staff itself) that ignore the AC.

Indeed, not bad at all for a melee attack from a squishy magic user.

With higher skills of 20 evoc / 20 elemental that ((20+10)*1.25 = 37.5) would mean between 0 and 37 extra damage by hit that would ignore the AC.

Of course not counting the enemy resistance

I wish i would have knew the evocation was required, as with high fire and good staves skill i hoped to get some nice damage in case i was forced to fight in melee, but obviously i'll need to train evocation to get better effect




« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 02:33:11 am by Robsoie »
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tompliss

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11448 on: November 09, 2013, 03:50:19 am »

Yeah, i tried Djins before they were removed for the 0.13 release and couldn't understand how you're supposed to keep the thing alive. Cast a spell and you're hurting yourself, miscast a spell and you're hurting yourself + you can get additionally hurt by the miscast effect.
Get hurt and you then lose not only health but your mana (as they're the same bar) , preventing you to cast more.
From what I hare read, they make good hybrids, where you spend just a little bit of your "essence" to cast support spells (repel missile, haste, swiftness, slow, confuse,...), and go for melee just after. That's because increasing Strength will both let you tank more (with armor penalty reduction and bonus HP) and let you cast a little more (with bonus Essence), so you don't have to spend as more XP in magic skills as others (and as they have a +2 in hexes)...
Another bonus for this is their +2 in Air magic that have some of the charms you'll want.
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vogonpoet

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11449 on: November 09, 2013, 03:54:47 am »

Yeah an enchanter staff is in fact an awesome weapon for an elementalist, earth and ice in particular - for what, 14 staves skill, and as much Evo, you can end up just tabbing everything and the staff improves your elemental buffs at the same time. You probably want at least 15 Evo for a crystal ball anyway, so its practically cost free :) - ok, a slight exaggeration, but really, they are awesome for casters and hybrids alike.

Also, you have a 50% chance of getting the Forest now, with lots of ego lajatangs, so staves are even more attractive than they were previously (taking one from Agnes is nice, but hardly reliable), and a vanilla quarterstaff is a great starting weapon when you find one (MiGl starting weapon FTW).

I love staves... now I made myself sad that my DsIE trained long blades... but early demon blade of flaming damnit. Ah well, maybe I can train some staff as well.

Oh, and I think Djinns make awesome beserkers.
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frostshotgg

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11450 on: November 09, 2013, 08:40:55 am »

Yeah, Djinni aren't casters out of the block. Start as a melee or hybrid.
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Robsoie

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11451 on: November 09, 2013, 12:32:42 pm »

Really that spellcasting manual was a magnificent item to find, helped my Deep Elf spellcasting to train quicker than usual, and it wasn't a second too soon, as Vault has been insanely difficult and getting Firestorm online is exactly what saved my character in there


After clearing Vaul and Crypts, getting some nice intelligence enhancing items too :

Ah Crawl, now we're talking !

(i guess it will spawn only fire immune monster from now)

I couldn't believe how insanely hard Vault has been, in the past it could be hard due to what could spawn there, but in recent version it's a big jump on difficulty in comparison to the Lair branches i had finished before moving to Vault.
Those nasty legions of vault guards found everywhere that can summon, recall, mark you, force doors and stairs to close, while being supported by those nasty yaktaur squads, i think that's even harder than Zot.
Because at the time you are in Zot you're at a higher level, have more powerfull spells , more powerfull items and so you have the means to deal with high end monsters.
Means you don't have yet in Vault but must face opponents that are strong on their own, but that are never coming to you alone.

Despite getting Firestorm online and using it a lot and eating (at the time i had still it with more than 200 hunger spell cost) , dozen of times my squishy deep elf got out of a battle with less than 10 health left (as teleporting to escape does not help much in Vault as from what i experienced this time, you -always- land into another difficult situation due to everything being strong there and never coming alone).

Mennas that i found asleep in the 1st level was only an appetizer, Vault on this run was simply insane.

On D:24 i ran into a really nice design :


Sad that such nice thing is wasted on the regular dungeon, this could fit much more some branch end.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2013, 01:42:24 pm by Robsoie »
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goblolo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11452 on: November 10, 2013, 11:52:20 pm »

CeHu is breaking in!

Last weekend I lost my DECj in unequal fight with an ancient lich in the Crypt:5. I was much more stronger, but decided not to cast fire storm for just a lich and started throwing fire bolts. I missed a lot, but 2 iron shots from the lich didn't.

Now I'm playing a CeHu of Okawaru and branched into polearms.
D1-27 is clear, Lair, Swamp and Spider too.
I got Swamp and Snake runes but don't know what rune should I take next.
I tried Abyss. I ventured to the 4th level and started exploring. It was really horrorous place. In ~1500 turns I ended up with multiple devastating temporary mutations (but Dex -2 is on now) and depleted teleport wand. Things started getting tougher and tougher and I decided to fight my way to the gate and leave.
Now I'm on my way clearing Vestibule (I need horn for treasure troove), then I'll go do Elf. Maybe I will do Crypt.
But where the hell can I get 3rd rune?

My char:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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The first small thing that made me feel awesome was my indoor waterfall. A few minutes later though, it started flooding my fort so I felt less awesome.

tompliss

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11453 on: November 11, 2013, 03:02:55 am »

You didn't put the event log with your dump :(

I may not be the best to help you there (haven't won any game, but got 4 runes in a good Gargoyle run), but to make it simple, you have a choice between :
 - Vault rune : need very good physical defences, that you have quite high but THAT much.
 - Abyss rune : I think you could handle it, as you went to Abyss:4 and came back. it may be possible to get some more XP before (two levels of Elf, maybe the beginning of the Vaults too), and go "simply" to Abyss:3, keeping a recharged wand of TP (as you will meet scroll burners).
 - Slime rune : You haven't rcorr, Clarity, nor rMut, so ... no :/

Anyway, you only have "extremely resistant" MR, so I would not go to Elf:3 if I were you (except if you want to get the Abyss rune that way :D ), but you may want to get some more dodging before going anywher further..

Also, do you have any potions of mutation and cure mutation, in your stash ?
Any good resists for slime, there, too ?
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goblolo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11454 on: November 11, 2013, 04:37:07 am »

Here is the log (didn't post it bcause I don't know how it helps):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And top creatures that I dealed with:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My stash is quite bad for Slime. I have only rMut amulet with me and no clarity/dig/rCorr.
And there is no potions of cure mutation, I lost some in my attempts to cure teleportitis (my fault, it was temporary) and mutation roulette.
I have +2 artifact plate mail with some elemental resistances in my stash, switching to it from my leather armor i will loose in MR, Dex and Acc, but get some EV. This may be good for Vaults.
I don't afraid being banished since I could handle Abyss:3 until I find gate (and maybe find a rune there!). So I would stick to my plan on clearing Elf to get some XP for fighting/dodge/armor.
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The first small thing that made me feel awesome was my indoor waterfall. A few minutes later though, it started flooding my fort so I felt less awesome.

tompliss

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11455 on: November 11, 2013, 04:51:42 am »

Well, you survived 5k turns in Abyss 3 and 4, so, with a recharched wand of TP (just in case), there is no reason you could not get the Abyssal rune, is there ?
About the MR and Elf, it isn't just about the Abyss banishing, but also the whole magic damage and hexes. You don't have that much rF and rC, even if, being a centaur you've got many HPs and good speed, you will have to be careful approaching the vault. A diagonnal digging trap near the vault is really advised, to be sure not to be overwhelmed.

By the way, being a centaur, your leather artifact seems much better than the plate mail, as it is porly enchanted, and you only have 10 in armor skill. But yeah, I don't usually play EV-oriented fighters, in vault, so I won't tell you whether it's enough :D
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goblolo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11456 on: November 11, 2013, 05:05:38 am »

Well, you survived 5k turns in Abyss 3 and 4, so, with a recharched wand of TP (just in case), there is no reason you could not get the Abyssal rune, is there?
But the abyss itself was just a "stand in a corner and regen until terrain changes then find another corner". The first ~1000-1500 turns I was exploring abyss, but then I got owerwhelmed and the next thousands of turns I was hiding.
In fact I can try abyss again and change my tactics from killing everything on sight to just running on and on. It will be better in terms of loot, rune and I will loose some hard opponents back.

In the Elf I'm gonna rely on my bow and fast feet. I assume +7,+6 longbow of frost should deal enough damage to quickly kill elf casters without need to approach them. I did it with my DECj and that was not that hard. I only decided to teleport from elf3 vault because there were too much blademasters.
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The first small thing that made me feel awesome was my indoor waterfall. A few minutes later though, it started flooding my fort so I felt less awesome.

goblolo

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11457 on: November 12, 2013, 01:31:35 am »

YASD!

I tried to do Vault 5 with my CeHu. After entering vault I blinked and ventured into corner where I can be hed by only 2 enemies. I was under heroism, finesse and haste. After decapitating about 15 enemies I quaffed berserk potion and killed about 8-10 more. When berserk run out I read tele and proceeded to swing my halberd. Teleport kiked me to quite safe place - 3 yaktaurs and a shadow dragon. Yaktaurs are dead and dragon is running severely wounded. I decided to let him go because I wanted to recuperate. On full hp I started my exploration and catched a mark on me. Then the hell started.
My fault was that I stayed in the V5 instead of trying to fight my way to V4 before things started etting mych worse.
I was killing enemiess, running from big bands, teleporting randomly and running again. Hp was always low, I ate all my healing pots. Then I noticed a rune and decided to get it and run away to leave this place forever. I got the rune and 2nd random teleport got me to the 5-6 tiles from the stairs.
Not too far me with my mark attracted a lot of enemies to the stairs and it was heavily crowded. If I run there I would certainly get blocked from stairs, so I blinked at the free ladder up and ascended with an ogre mage and yaktaur.
I had only 40 hp left and I had to kill them fast! I decided to go berserk and I started to puncture yaktaur (since he can deal more damage I thought), but when he became dead I was.... banished!
This abyss had reapers instead of orcs and newts and I went down to one of the enemies.

Spoiler: character (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: log (click to show/hide)

I'm gonna play DECj of Vehumet and branch into ice next time.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 01:35:01 am by goblolo »
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The first small thing that made me feel awesome was my indoor waterfall. A few minutes later though, it started flooding my fort so I felt less awesome.

Frank2368

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11458 on: November 13, 2013, 10:43:29 pm »

How the hell do I play as a Naga? I can't even manage to get to temple because they are so fragile
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da dwarf lord

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Re: Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup. Or: THAT DAMN SIGMUND.
« Reply #11459 on: November 13, 2013, 11:30:07 pm »

How the hell do I play as a Naga? I can't even manage to get to temple because they are so fragile

Spit, Spit and spit some more. Try playing utility backgrounds too, e.g. Fighter and Wizard, for the flexibility and try to kite enemies until you are in a safe-ish area, using blink to stay ahead (Wz) or tankiness (Fi) then turn and blast/smack them to death. Naga need to be played carefully but end up really strong with the bonus hp and decent intrinsics
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