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[Il Palazzo]

There's no need for anything untranslated to be in subs.

... ?
I don't speak Japanese well enough.

Your poor comprehension of the spoken language is an obstacle in reading fully translated subs?

[Tack]

What does that have to do with being able to hear? Now i’m even more confused

[Dunamisdeos]

I am also confused as to why one would need untranslated subs in undubbed content. Maybe we are confused about whether we are talking dubs/subs?

[Cruxador]

There's no need for anything untranslated to be in subs.

... ?
I don't speak Japanese well enough.

Your poor comprehension of the spoken language is an obstacle in reading fully translated subs?

I reckon he means that he doesn't comprehend it well enough to pick out the phrases he in principle does know (in this case onee-sama) without it written in the sub. Which actually seems like a legitimate argument, although it in turn begs the question of how many people are in that relatively small window of language comprehension where they know a term in romaji but miss it (consistently, in the case of something that would be frequently repeated like onee-sama) in speech. I still think that's a small enough portion of the audience, given how intelligible TV-accent Japanese is (I could potentially lean the other direction on, say, Danish) but it's a reasonable position.

Either that or he forgot the context somewhere along the way in that exchange, or we were somehow not on the same page to begin with. So in that case:

What does that have to do with being able to hear? Now i’m even more confused

If you can hear the original (not dubbed) audio, then you can hear the dialog in its untranslated form. This makes the untranslated text in subs redundant, and therefore, for many/most viewers, pointless. Il Palazzo is requesting clarification (possibly sarcastically, it's not always easy to tell in text) about how [lack of] ability to comprehend spoken dialog in the original language relates to your ability to enjoy a sub that does not include romaji transliteration of the dialog. More broadly, it can be interpreted as questioning what this has to do with the topic at hand in general (that is, allowing you to clarify that in fact your statement pertained to something else that had been said, or to characterize the point to which you were responding differently), which is implicit in the fact that he restated the point he perceived you to be responding to.

Spoiler: completely unrelated (click to show/hide)

As a side note, that kind of deep analysis of a few lines of text is something that all neurotypical people do subconsciously in order to nuance, while a need to analyze it consciously is considered characteristic of autism. The ability to spell it out explicitly like this is therefore a rare ability among the neurotypical. I apologize to anyone who finds it overly detailed to the point of being exhausting, but do be aware that to some people, every conversation is like this.

[Reelya]

I am also confused as to why one would need untranslated subs in undubbed content. Maybe we are confused about whether we are talking dubs/subs?

It means why write "Dunamisdeos-san" in the subs when you could write "Mr Dunamisdeos".

However, the counter-argument is that honorifics are culturally specific, and translating culturally specific things into what are only very loose approximations always messes things up. Like, you wouldn't translate "ninja" to "spy", even though technically, ninja is untranslated. We could just write "futon" as "mattress" too, and "samurai" as "warrior" or "swordsman". So, as you can see, dictating that everything must be translated to the nearest equivalent is equally fucking stupid.

So, the point has to be that we leave things untranslated when the non-translated version is more accurate and commonly known, for a very subjective line of what "commonly known" is. For example, onigiri become "rice balls" (or "jelly donuts" if you prefer) because the name onigiri is less commonly known in the English speaking world, but sushi doesn't become "fish rolls" because the name sushi is already commonly known. So, for our "full translation dammit!" demand we get upset if they don't translate onigiri to "rice balls" but equally we would get upset if they do translate sushi to "fish rolls". So, no, there is no actual set of rules we can apply here, it's always subjective.

Honorifics are therefore middle-ground, because they're culturally specific, and that's where those works are set, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to pick them up.

[scriver]

I think in Swedish "Mr." is mostly translated as "Mr." and not it's actual equivalent ("Herr"), but we also don't use titles any more so it's not exactly the same situation.

Otherwise I am 100% in favour of everything having to be translated. The sillier the outcome the better.

[Reelya]

I think in Swedish "Mr." is mostly translated as "Mr." and not it's actual equivalent ("Herr"), but we also don't use titles any more so it's not exactly the same situation.

Otherwise I am 100% in favour of everything having to be translated. The sillier the outcome the better.

san, sama work differently. San can mean miss, mr or mrs depend on context. The main justification for preserving honorifics is to convey culturally-specific information about the setting, and the fact that the system doesn't really overlay well into English, hence the stupid "sissy" thing from the last page.

Onee-sama means "honored older sister"

[Arx]

Ah, but with the additional cultural input that in Japan it's still common to refer to an older female friend as "sister", which is no longer the case in the West

Clearly, there's no way to accurately translate anything. As a result, I move that nothing ever be translated, and all anime fans be mandated to learn both the Japanese language and culture. This is obviously the only reasonable solution.

[Flying Dice]

Yep, if you translate honorifics you'll end up with a lot of situations where bad subs think people are related when they aren't. Pretty much the only one that works is the lightly-thuggish usage of 'aniki' -> 'bro' since there's actual equivalency there.

Chinese is far worse since there are so many contexts where non-blood relations are referred to as uncle/aunt/grandma/grandpa/sister/brother.

[scriver]

Related, I just had the idea of for a great animu: tantzerfaust, in which old lady-anthropomorphized-tanks battle evil mecha, then have tea parties

[Karnewarrior]

Related, I just had the idea of for a great animu: tantzerfaust, in which old lady-anthropomorphized-tanks battle evil mecha, then have tea parties

I'll do you one better: Puella Magi Beavis & Butthead Magica.

[Frumple]

I am also confused as to why one would need untranslated subs in undubbed content. Maybe we are confused about whether we are talking dubs/subs?

that's actually kinda' helpful for learning a language, tbh

Having both the spoken word and their written form going at the same time can be pretty nice when you're starting to pick things up, et al.

But you're kinda' just talking normal captions at that point instead of sub/dub stuff, heh.

[Cruxador]

So, the point has to be that we leave things untranslated when the non-translated version is more accurate and commonly known, for a very subjective line of what "commonly known" is. For example, onigiri become "rice balls" (or "jelly donuts" if you prefer) because the name onigiri is less commonly known in the English speaking world, but sushi doesn't become "fish rolls" because the name sushi is already commonly known. So, for our "full translation dammit!" demand we get upset if they don't translate onigiri to "rice balls" but equally we would get upset if they do translate sushi to "fish rolls". So, no, there is no actual set of rules we can apply here, it's always subjective.

You're talking about loan words here, though. The English for ninja is ninja and the English for sushi is sushi. This is beyond people recognizing the word, which would be more like say, recognizing amigo from Spanish - even if it's recognized, it would only actually be used in abnormal situations, but translating it would still be right.

Also, Japanese sushi doesn't usually take the form of a roll, although it definitely exists in Japan its dominance is specific to western sushi.

[Iduno]

I'm watching Read or Die, and got to the part in episode 19 where we learn Junior was named that by Joker. Which is a real missed opportunity. Name him Pip. It's more British, it's a literary reference, and

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

they want to turn him into a Gentleman.

[Reelya]

Ugh, this stuff is just getting weird. I went to the main Horriblesubs website and got redirected to an interpol warning about blocked domains because of CP. Thanks Australia. I went there to see which TV cartoons are airing, then the implication is I'm a pedo for looking at that site!

Considering that 100% of HorribleSubs content is just streams from CrunchyRoll and Funimation this is clearly BS, and it's likely that someone in the industry decided it was more effective to claim HS is a pedo site as a way to get it blocked rather than prove they've infringing copyright.