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[Cruxador]

That name suggested something very different to me.  Your description sounds like the mature anime that never makes it over here.

Well it's a KyoAni show, so some folks might consider it to be pandering otaku trash by default. Although you can say it deals with some relatively mature themes, they're a background, the foreground is just heartwarming and cute.

It was good in the sense of being well made, and was generally subjectively enjoyable. I didn't notice fanservice, but I'm sure someone will come in to point out that the characters have breasts and short skirts, because that's always what happens when I say there's not fanservice.

Well nope, the notable example was Konosuba, and the retort was that they were constamtly framing the shots so you could see up the main girl's skirt, but without showing panties, but instead it was the "bare buttcheeks" shot. Nobody said anything about boobs and short skirts being fan service. When you constantly frame buttcheeks shots in every episode (incidents of this specific shot happened several times just inthe opening credits) then it's clearly deliberate.

My opinion there remains that it's a stylistic choice to portray Aqua as just kind of sloppy in general. Since, you know, this is consistent with her general portrayal and the animation is generally not framed in such a way as to call attention to her ass nor is her ass the subject of particularly heightened animation quality.

As for Dragon Maid, I know some people find Kanna's thighs attractive, but in my opinion anyone who sexualizes Kanna is an over-sexed reprobate imposing their own sexuality on something inherently not sexual, in much the same way as would a pedophile on an actual child.

[Reelya]

"not framed to call attention to her butt"

The only thing IN frame at 1:08 of the credits is her butt. And that shot's repeated over and over in the show. The show has a butt fetish. You get that really obvious butt show every single episode in the credits (along with some less obvious shots, but with the same framing), then the load them into every single actual episode as well, including the first ever shot of Aqua being her butt and not her face.

There are ways to show a character's psrsonality which don't involve constantly zoom-focus on doggy-style point-of-view shots.

You're seriously in denial because you like that show.

[Cruxador]

More reply since the post was edited.

Framing the main girl in this way

Aqua's not really a "main girl" though, she's more like a deuteragonist. The main girl is clearly Megumin.

Also they have a side-character montage at the end, which ends with two very minor side-characters who have big boobs turning around one after the other, so that they can cram more last-minute boob-jiggle scenes into the credits. So don't gimme that "what fanservice?" argument. The production team was very deliberate about packing it in.

I don't care about whether there is or not, but pretending there isn't fan service in shows that you recommend to other people, when there is ample fanservice, is not the sort of thing that helps animes public image. People are going to notice this shit, and whitewashing it so that they watch it isn't helping.

I don't deny that "it" is there, I just don't agree that "it" is necessarily fanservice. There's comedy that involves body parts, but that's crude humor rather than something that I can realistically imagine someone going and getting aroused over. And there's background characters (both genders) with revealing outfits, but that's never treated sexually either, and honestly is a form of body positivity that I'd like to see more of, not less, and I opine that calling it fanservice is not only factually misguided but is itself rooted in issues of "public image";. You're treating it as though less than conservative dress is something that must be apologized for or which requires a disclaimer, I don't think that's a categorically accurate viewpoint.

"not framed to call attention to her butt"

The only thing IN frame at 1:08 of the credits is her butt. And that shot's repeated over and over in the show. The show has a butt fetish.

There are ways to show a character's psrsonality which don't involve constantly zoom-focus on doggy-style point-of-view shots.

You're seriously in denial because you like that show.

I believe you hadn't added that bit when I began replying, or otherwise I missed it. The focus of that shot is on Megumin. Aqua takes up a big part of the foreground, but she's framing Megumin in the distance. Notice how Megumin has big flashy animation calling attention to her while Aqua is entirely unanimated.

I'm not in denial because I like the show, I deny your interpretation because I don't think it's an accurate representation of how the show uses nudity.

[Reelya]

You're treating it as though less than conservative dress is something that must be apologized for or which requires a disclaimer, I don't think that's a categorically accurate viewpoint.

I didn't say a word about how people dress, i talked about how the shots are framed. e.g. jiggle physics are there to draw attention to breasts, while aqua is shown collapsed (predictably) with her ass huge, and in the viewer's face, to draw attention to her ass.

~~~

Also I don't buy the "i'm not turned on by it so it's not intended as fanservice" argument. Clearly it is, it's aimed at a subset with a particular fetish. There are many comedic ways to show a character slovenly and careless. Constantly having her collapse to her knees and aiming a camera in her buttcrack is not the best way to convey that.

It is a problematic thing, and it plays a big part in why similar shows can't really be recommended to regular people to draw them into anime. People notice this shit even if you say it's ok and should be ignored. Imagine if any live action show tried this stuff, in every episode there was this one girl who invariably tripped over in a short skirt, then the camera zoomed in to show her buttcheeks. Every. Fucking. Episode. You'd have to be mental to claim that wasn't intentional sexualization.

[Cruxador]

Does it have to be a point of contention?

The flippant answer here is yes, because we both think we're right. In greater depth, Reelya feels that I'm being dishonest when I don't call things fanservice, whereas I generally don't even notice a lot of what she* says is fanservice, and find it to be misleading and kind of childish to treat things as sexual when they're generally not. I think it's probably rooted a lot in cultural difference since Reelya's views mirror what I know of media perceptions in the anglosphere, but it's a point of contention that has come up before and probably will again. In this I would guess that Reelya engaged in discussion about it because she perceived my mention of it as petulant or aggrieved; for my part I intended it mostly as a disclaimer that my perception of this kind of thing isn't universal, though I did frame it in a flippant manner.

But your intent is noted, I'll try and avoid causing a fracas in the public thread.

*I think? Not that gender is particularly pertinent to this discussion.

[Cthulufaic]

I am a simple man with simple tastes and as such I am disinterested in arguments about if booty or up-skirt shots count as fan-service or not.
The only question I want answered is if the fan-service gets in the way of the story, plot, or character development in Konosuba?

also just watched the OP and reelya is totally right on how its framed to draw attention to the jiggle-physics.

[Cruxador]

I am a simple man with simple tastes and as such I am disinterested in arguments about if booty or up-skirt shots count as fan-service or not.
The only question I want answered is if the fan-service gets in the way of the story, plot, or character development in Konosuba?

Nah, it's part of the development. And sexuality does make up a big part of the humor, though not really with the character Reelya's talking about.

[Reelya]

if the fan-service gets in the way of the story, plot, or character development in Konosuba?

story, plot, or character development in Konosuba

I can categorically state that there's nothing to get in the way of.

Otaku is reincarnated in a fantasy/game world. Gets a harem. Daily hijinks ensue.

[Cthulufaic]

if the fan-service gets in the way of the story, plot, or character development in Konosuba?

story, plot, or character development in Konosuba

I can categorically state that there's nothing to get in the way of.

Otaku is reincarnated in a fantasy/game world. Gets a harem. Daily hijinks ensure.

lmao, so its one o' them shows, with maybe slightly more overarching plot than To Love Ru.  I'll watch it right after I finish reading Fist of the North Star... and replaying P4G... and P3P... and by that time I'll probably want to re-watch Jojo... maybe catch up on HxH, Berserk, and Akagi too...

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

I can categorically state that there's nothing to get in the way of.

Otaku is reincarnated in a fantasy/game world. Gets a harem. Daily hijinks ensue.

lmao, so its one o' them shows, with maybe slightly more overarching plot than To Love Ru.  I'll watch it right after I finish reading Fist of the North Star... and replaying P4G... and P3P... and by that time I'll probably want to re-watch Jojo... maybe catch up on HxH, Berserk, and Akagi too...

Oh, jeez, that's not all there is, y'know? The way you frame it makes it sound like the main character is somehow lucky or happy to be in that situation.
I mean, he dies of a heart attack from fear of being run over after trying to save a girl, turns out the thing the girl was about to be 'run over' by was a slow-moving tractor, he gets taken to purgatory where a self-absorbed goddess offers him some god-tier item to help him out in his other life (And this is something which she's obligated to do, don't think she's being kind) and out of spite he picks her as that item.

Then he gets reincarnated in a fantasy/game world, gets a harem*, daily hijinks ensue, but funny ones! At least, according to my tastes in comedy**.
*I should mention that the harem designation is sorta stretching it, you have the same bratty goddess, a masochistic paladin, and a little mage girl whose only spell is an enormous, earth shattering explosion, which she can use once per day, at no point (So far) do any of them show any sexual attraction to the MC.
**There are some episodes that are a bit iffy (The succubus episode in particular I don't like because of my prudeness), but there have been more hits than misses for me.
Look just watch this it explains my point of view a lot better than I can.

[Neonivek]

Well I am not watching anymore of that Spirit anime (not the Slice of Life one)

It was very interesting when I thought there was genuine amazing world building but after learning that the joke was that he was actually incredibly poor... the joke that actually killed it for me was the Exorcists' ultimate attack was to take a bible and smash a spirit using the corner... an attack SO difficult that he can only achieve it once a week.

So yeah the anime is kind of lame. If I want Yokai comedy I'll watch Yokai Watch (bonus that it manages to actually be funny sometimes!)

[Reelya]

Now go read Pao no Monogatari manga (it's short but worthwhile )

It's about the harsh life of an unwanted puppy in the cruel, cruel world. I've said enough.

[Neonivek]

Now go read Pao no Monogatari manga (it's short but worthwhile )

It's about the harsh life of an unwanted puppy in the cruel, cruel world. I've said enough.

You are giving me terrible Puppy and Siscor flashbacks.

[Reelya]

It took me a second but I now have flashbacks about Dog and Scissors too.

Trust me, Pao is completely different to that.

[Cthulufaic]

Oh man, the Fist of the North Star manga is pretty different in feel from the anime.  This is amazing.