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[Neonivek]

Hajime no Ippo - Ippo is strong because he carried a lot of boxes around for years.

That isn't exactly accurate or honest to the series. Ippo starting the show in good condition is from the boat, that much is accurate.

Yet his super fast learning curve, super recovery, super healing, High Pain Tolerance, Weight class, and super punches are all genetic. He basically was born great at boxing and basically only needed to be taught.

Which... Haijime No Ippo... doesn't disagree with. It basically says that to be a great boxer you have to be born one.

Though his Rival is, oddly enough the counter point to an extent. Though a natural at boxing he lacks the punching strength and physique required of him. His style of counter punching is built upon removing his major weaknesses.

Though as I said... Ippo being a natural genius at Boxing is a narrative strength of the series. It allows us to learn along with Ippo while also making his continuous growth believable. If he had to spend a year on the basics the show would get bogged down.

[Tack]

I just finished watching the first 2 seasons of Food Wars, both to catch myself up on all the characters, and second... because who the hell was Mimasaka?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

You know, the copycat stalker villain? He wasn't in even one second of the first 24 episodes, but season 3 starts and he's like "Boo! I'm heeerrre!" right in the middle of the tournament when anybody that was only following the anime (he was in the manga apparently) wouldn't know he existed at all at the end of the preliminaries for the tournament.

Not even worth a spoiler. Mimisaka was just thrown in because they needed a 'bad guy'.
He's basically the villain of the week, and somehow got into the middle of the shokugeki tournament.
It's goddamn weak, but eh.

The question is, who'd he replace? Secretary girl? Pretty sure she pushed creep-chick out for the last slot.

[Neonivek]

I get the impression that Mimasaka just being included out of no where is actually meant to be a joke.

Though... He does give me a heaping helping of Japanese gender roles... which makes me do this face sometimes O_o?

"He is so manly he couldn't possibly whip cream properly!"

*he does so gracefully... somehow this makes him less manly*

Me: COME ON! he is a Chef!

[Reelya]

to be taught.
Which... Haijime No Ippo... doesn't disagree with. It basically says that to be a great boxer you have to be born one.

Yeah ... because that's largely true. Most of us a blobs who would never amount to much in any sport with any amount of training.

So, sports animes are rubbish because they imply that you need good genes to get to the top in sport? No, that would be called "the basic truth".

As for the 3 top shonen series, I showed that in each of those the main hero got his powers through some random occurrence, similar to superhero origin stories. Those are clear self-insert / blank slate stories, since you could imagine the same happening to anyone.

[Neonivek]

to be taught.
Which... Haijime No Ippo... doesn't disagree with. It basically says that to be a great boxer you have to be born one.

But you do have to have the physique for sport. It is largely genetic. To pretend otherwise is the feel-good BS.

Haijime No Ippo's one oddity is that...

In MOST animes/Mangas the main character's strength over the enemy is usually something along the lines of skill or willpower.

Ippo is unique in that his advantage over his opponent is that he is basically superior to the opponent in everyway physically. The only exception was against the Speed Star. He is way stronger, faster, and more durable then all his opponents.

Also I don't know exactly what your arguing Reelya. O-o

---

Ippo sure is lucky his clear overtraining never catches up to him.

Though I attribute that to Ippo's super healing ability.

[Reelya]

I'm saying your original argument is rubbish, basically.

The top 3 shonen anime series do not have a protagonist who got his main powers through being "genetically superior", they got them through random events, so they are exactly the same as superhero origin stories, thus no different to western media.

Sports anime series more often than not are just about training rather than "special powers". And in ones where the hero has "superior genes", well that's actually realistic. There are a FEW sports series which are basically mash-ups with the superhero genre, but those are outnumbered by far by realistic ones.

For Hajime no Ippo it makes sense that the series focuses on the "guy who is the best in Japan" because why would they focus on someone who is not the best? The not-best athlete doesn't win tournaments, so it makes no sense to focus a story on them. In sports, there's usually a "person who is the best", and it makes sense that fiction focuses on that person, just like the media does. Lance Armstrong won the Tour De France for seven years in a row. And I can tell you that Lance Armstrong wasn't necessarily the most determined, hardest training or even biggest drug cheat. Pure genetics has a lot to do with that.

[Neonivek]

Ok then lets bring my original argument into this

They are often genetically superior... Either by being born with super genes, being given super genes, or being the son/daughter of someone with Super genes.

Ok let me see here

The top 3 shonen anime series do not have a protagonist who got his main powers through being "genetically superior", they got them through random events, so they are exactly the same as superhero origin stories, thus no different to western media.

Ok lets see this

1) One Piece: Given super genes.
2) Naruto: Genetically Superior character
3) Fairytale: Genetically superior character

But... I don't think this is thurough enough... What was REALLY my original argument?

It is just a hilariously pronounced theme.

Ahh yes. It is a pronounced theme in anime. That I find enjoyable in how pronounced it is.

And what are you comparing it to? ohh right... Western Super Hero comic books.

Your point is? I don't even get this. I am not saying Anime is flawed or bad... I am saying there is a common theme that makes its way in a LOT of anime... almost overwhelmingly so.

[Reelya]

OK, so American comic books are just as steeped in "super-gene" plots as action / superpower animes.

But to say that it's overwhelming in anime is cherry picking the series you're willing to watch.

[Neonivek]

Eating magic fruit isn't "genetically superior". You're really stretching the concept now to be "right".

That would make Spiderman also a "genetically superior" person.

Spiderman falls under my original argument.

Also the Fruit changes their genes

It also changed Spiderman's Genes.

My original argument against your superhero examples is you seem to have this idea that the majority of super heroes are given powers via accidents and that... Captain America is some sort of exception... Yet here is just using the Avengers
-Hulk: Accident
-Captain America: Serum
-Ironman: Gadgets
-Thor: Natural for his kind
-Scarlet Witch: Mutant and magic powers given to her by training
-Vision: Machine created
-Antman: Gadgets
-Hawkeye: Training
-Falcon: Training/Gadgets

[Reelya]

I think the flaw with this "it's an anime thing" argument is that you are one one hand saying:

- "look at those superpower animes, they all have superpower cliches!"

then when I point out that the same thing happens in western superhero shows, you say "yes but that's just a subset of western media!"

Sure, but you need to also accept the "it's just a subset" argument for anime then, too. I provided many more examples of sports animes without superpowers than the number that have them.

[Neonivek]

I watch more animes then you think Reelya xD

In fact I don't even watch all that much Shounen action series.

[Reelya]

I think the most you can actual say from the examples provided is that anime is skewed towards the superhero genre slightly more than western media. The tropes we've discussed are exactly the same between those two genres.

[Neonivek]

I think the most you can actual say from the examples provided is that anime is skewed towards the superhero genre slightly more than western media. The tropes we've discussed are exactly the same between those two genres.

One of the reasons I don't extensively argue things here is because it becomes a huge time sink that no one wants to read anyway. Hence why I just highlight my reasonings...

But I really wouldn't put things like Ramna 1/2 into the Super Hero Genre...

But if you want, I can branch out from action shows with some such as: Master Cooking Boy, Yakkate Japan, and Yamino Pastichie

or towards detective shows such as: Case Closed, Detective Q, and Kindaichi World's Worst Detective (DAMN THAT SHOW!)

Ugh actually lets not... anything to spare me from Kindaichi World's Worst detective... That and I think you are mad... and this would be a wonderful conversation to have, but not at someone's expense.

----

I kind of wonder if some anime's sort of "Past-present" visual style is actually based on Japan.

In that maybe you can see both old style buildings along with modern aesthetics.

Naruto is sort of the biggest example of this... but Naruto probably isn't the best example given it was a messy hodgepodge because the creator just didn't care (no really, that is the official explanation. He just wanted whatever technology he thought was cool)

[Orange Wizard]

I'd be willing to accept "I'm X because my parents were X" is more prevalent in Japanese stuff generally but to say it's an overarching theme really isn't accurate as far as I can see

[Neonivek]

I'd be willing to accept "I'm X because my parents were X" is more prevalent in Japanese stuff generally but to say it's an overarching theme really isn't accurate as far as I can see

I said pronounced (and almost overwhelming). Though I was including other ways a character was "superior" in that statement.

My original statement "I'm X because my parents were X" was an observation I made while watching Puzzle and Dragons where I laughed because "Of course our heroes father couldn't just be any ordinary Dragon Caller... He had to be a special caller" and then watched as undue importance was thrust upon him in spite not really earning it in anyway... and not for "political" reasons but rather because everyone knows he is going to be special by default.

Then I remembered all the other times this has happened in anime where a protagonists parents were awesome/important as well and the main character had to follow through.

and I was like "Wow, if I judged Japan by anime then Nepotism must be horrendous there"
-Though for all I know... Nepotism could be rampant in Japan. In that not every place is against Nepotism. For example Canada doesn't care about Nepotism.