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[itisnotlogical]

Madoka was pretty good, coming off my first watching. I've seen better of course, but it's better than most. The twists were good, I liked the characters, the ending was satisfying and bittersweet. I'll definitely watch the movie soon, and I'd watch the series again in the future.

Spoiler: Spoilery gripes (click to show/hide)

Why didn't they wish for Mami to come back? Even if Kyubey couldn't do it, it seems like literally the first thing Madoka or Sayaka would try when they're about to be eaten by a witch and becoming meguca is the only thing that could save them.

Madoka became a magical girl before Homura came to class, in the other timelines. In the "final" timeline seen in the show, why was she not already magical girl when Homura got there? She always wakes up on the same day, when she's released from the hospital.

Dunno if it's just me, but I saw the "magical girls become witches" twist from a mile away. It was pretty obvious when they explained that meguca use Grief Seeds to purify their soul gems.

Why would Kyubey grant Madoka's wish? Incubators tell lies of omission all the time to make being meguca seem really fun and exciting, despite claims to the contrary. Alternate-timeline Kyubey says that the meguca -> witch -> grief seed system is much more efficient than whatever happens after Madoka's wish. How is this a good deal for Kyubey at all?

[Bauglir]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sayaka had something more important to wish for, in her mind, and Madoka kept getting prevented from making a wish anyway.

I assume that Homura is released from the hospital some time before she goes back to school.

Yes.

He seems to have something against out-and-out lies, and he may be skeptical that Madoka will be able to save herself. It's apparent that her ability to effect the wish depends on her actual power, not just wish-granting mojo, and since her Witch self would presumably exist on a similar power level, it may be difficult to call which one wins. And if the Witch wins, Kyuubey gets all the energy he needs, even without the other witches. It may be that the expected value was net positive. Lots of "maybes", here. It may just be that he doesn't have a choice once the contract is begun. He was so eager to harvest her energy that he agreed to whatever she wanted preemptively, IIRC.

[Culise]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sayaka had something more important to wish for, in her mind, and Madoka kept getting prevented from making a wish anyway.

I assume that Homura is released from the hospital some time before she goes back to school.

Yes.

He seems to have something against out-and-out lies, and he may be skeptical that Madoka will be able to save herself. It's apparent that her ability to effect the wish depends on her actual power, not just wish-granting mojo, and since her Witch self would presumably exist on a similar power level, it may be difficult to call which one wins. And if the Witch wins, Kyuubey gets all the energy he needs, even without the other witches. It may be that the expected value was net positive. Lots of "maybes", here. It may just be that he doesn't have a choice once the contract is begun. He was so eager to harvest her energy that he agreed to whatever she wanted preemptively, IIRC.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Assumption is correct: Homura is released over a week before she returns to school, though this is mostly only revealed by paying very careful attention to the calendars on the screen (I didn't catch it myself, either).  I believe, if I recall properly, that Madoka originally became a magical girl to save a cat that had been hit by a car.  Homura, having been told of this in the original timeline, can preempt it by saving the cat before Madoka ever becomes involved.

[Trapezohedron]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sayaka had something more important to wish for, in her mind, and Madoka kept getting prevented from making a wish anyway.

I assume that Homura is released from the hospital some time before she goes back to school.

Yes.

He seems to have something against out-and-out lies, and he may be skeptical that Madoka will be able to save herself. It's apparent that her ability to effect the wish depends on her actual power, not just wish-granting mojo, and since her Witch self would presumably exist on a similar power level, it may be difficult to call which one wins. And if the Witch wins, Kyuubey gets all the energy he needs, even without the other witches. It may be that the expected value was net positive. Lots of "maybes", here. It may just be that he doesn't have a choice once the contract is begun. He was so eager to harvest her energy that he agreed to whatever she wanted preemptively, IIRC.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or Kyubey's got a lady boner for wishing contracts to be real anyway. I mean, have we ever seen the guy not pulling the ends of his deals in all instances of him contracting Mahou Shoujo?

[JoshuaFH]

Startin up the REwatch of Yowamushi Pedal. Gotta build the bicycling hype back up as the weather becomes actually nice here in Michigan. I mean, it's still promising one last blizzard before we're officially in Spring, but it's getting there. I'm thinking I'm gonna drop a few hundred on an *good* bike instead of the $100 POS I got from Walmart last year that had a fit and the gear changing mechanism twisted around and fucked itself. It probably could've been repaired, but at this point I don't want to bother with it.

But yeah, Yowapedal drawin' me back in very easily. Very digestible and manly manime.

[Chevaleresse]

Madoka was pretty good, coming off my first watching. I've seen better of course, but it's better than most. The twists were good, I liked the characters, the ending was satisfying and bittersweet. I'll definitely watch the movie soon, and I'd watch the series again in the future.

Spoiler: Spoilery gripes (click to show/hide)

Why didn't they wish for Mami to come back? Even if Kyubey couldn't do it, it seems like literally the first thing Madoka or Sayaka would try when they're about to be eaten by a witch and becoming meguca is the only thing that could save them.

Madoka became a magical girl before Homura came to class, in the other timelines. In the "final" timeline seen in the show, why was she not already magical girl when Homura got there? She always wakes up on the same day, when she's released from the hospital.

Dunno if it's just me, but I saw the "magical girls become witches" twist from a mile away. It was pretty obvious when they explained that meguca use Grief Seeds to purify their soul gems.

Why would Kyubey grant Madoka's wish? Incubators tell lies of omission all the time to make being meguca seem really fun and exciting, despite claims to the contrary. Alternate-timeline Kyubey says that the meguca -> witch -> grief seed system is much more efficient than whatever happens after Madoka's wish. How is this a good deal for Kyubey at all?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

iirc wishing people back from the dead is implied and/or stated to be impossible. Besides, they probably weren't thinking clearly. The characters are 14 year old girls explicitly selected because they're overemotional.

Trapezohedron seems to have covered the rest of what i said.

As far as the twist, I accidentally spoiled myself before I got to it and was pretty upset. I didn't, however, see Mami dying in episode 3. I'd already decided she was my favorite character and aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[/spoiler]

[lemon10]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sayaka had something more important to wish for, in her mind, and Madoka kept getting prevented from making a wish anyway.

I assume that Homura is released from the hospital some time before she goes back to school.

Yes.

He seems to have something against out-and-out lies, and he may be skeptical that Madoka will be able to save herself. It's apparent that her ability to effect the wish depends on her actual power, not just wish-granting mojo, and since her Witch self would presumably exist on a similar power level, it may be difficult to call which one wins. And if the Witch wins, Kyuubey gets all the energy he needs, even without the other witches. It may be that the expected value was net positive. Lots of "maybes", here. It may just be that he doesn't have a choice once the contract is begun. He was so eager to harvest her energy that he agreed to whatever she wanted preemptively, IIRC.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or Kyubey's got a lady boner for wishing contracts to be real anyway. I mean, have we ever seen the guy not pulling the ends of his deals in all instances of him contracting Mahou Shoujo?

[TheBiggerFish]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sayaka had something more important to wish for, in her mind, and Madoka kept getting prevented from making a wish anyway.

I assume that Homura is released from the hospital some time before she goes back to school.

Yes.

He seems to have something against out-and-out lies, and he may be skeptical that Madoka will be able to save herself. It's apparent that her ability to effect the wish depends on her actual power, not just wish-granting mojo, and since her Witch self would presumably exist on a similar power level, it may be difficult to call which one wins. And if the Witch wins, Kyuubey gets all the energy he needs, even without the other witches. It may be that the expected value was net positive. Lots of "maybes", here. It may just be that he doesn't have a choice once the contract is begun. He was so eager to harvest her energy that he agreed to whatever she wanted preemptively, IIRC.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Or Kyubey's got a lady boner for wishing contracts to be real anyway. I mean, have we ever seen the guy not pulling the ends of his deals in all instances of him contracting Mahou Shoujo?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Uninformed speculation, but maybe they're actually bound by their contracts physiomagically?  Or something?

[itisnotlogical]

I'm finishing up the last few minutes of PMMM: Rebellion right now.

Spoiler: Thoughts (click to show/hide)

THE YURI BAIT UNRESOLVED ROMANTIC TENSION DOES NOT STOP FROM GETTING TALLER..........

Alt title: Psycho Magi Homura Yandere

You know Homura in the original show? How you never knew whose side she was on or what her ultimate goal was? And then you get to the end of the series and see what lengths she goes to to save the one she loved, no matter the cost to her own soul? Basically surviving Armageddon upwards of five times, just hoping that on the sixth try she'll be able to save one life? And at the end of the series, she's a stronger person for her trial, never forgetting Madoka's sacrifice, but swearing to go on and not let it be in vain?

Let's toss all that "interesting" and "nuanced" crap and make her another emo weepy clingy psychopath villain. Because anime doesn't have enough of those.

Why was Sayaka able to just pull out and control her witch form and control it like it was nothing? If she's some sort of angel of hope, wouldn't summoning the most despair she ever felt in her entire life be kinda against that?

What even is Homura's purpose? Clearly she's not like Madoka, because she still has a human form and lives mostly as a human (the better to enjoy how she selfishly fucked up the order of the universe by bringing Madoka back). And she totally became a witch for at least a while there, and her Soul Gem wasn't ever fixed, so are witches back now? Great job foiling the Incubator's plan to bring witches back, by bringing witches back AND introducing a force of pure evil into the universe!

I'm... really kinda annoyed with this movie. This must be how people who dislike Eva feel about End of Evangelion.

[Bauglir]

-snip-

EEEEEEEE

So, spoiler below is why I think that movie had to happen and why it's the best part of the franchise.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The thing about Homura is that she never changed. It took me rewatching the movie to get it, because they fucked up the pacing, but go back and watch that scene with the hillside and blooming flowers. Homura flat-out tells you her motives for what she ultimately winds up doing. She's protecting Madoka. It's the same motive she's always had - it's just that, due to a terrible miscommunication, Homura thought Madoka was saying "Protect me from myself, too." Madoka has unwittingly convinced her that the sacrifice was in vain all along.

By the end of the movie, Homura has seen that even as a deity, Madoka is vulnerable. Sure, maybe the Incubators have been foiled this time. But she's in mid-witch breakdown mode. If there was ever at time in her life to be feeling paranoid, it's right the fuck now. And trusting things to work out on their own was never something she could do, so it's not like this is a new character development either. So of course she's going to wonder, "What happens after I'm gone? What happens when I can't keep her safe anymore?"

So, here's what she sees. Homura sees an opportunity to give Madoka the life she's sure Madoka really wanted, deep down. She sees an opportunity to seize the power necessary to protect that life, and all she has to do is take it from somebody who doesn't really want it. She can fix everything! She's not going to do things like "respect Sayaka's experiences" by letting her stay dead. I'd be skeptical if there are witches anymore, because everything seems to suggest that this new world is everything Homura thinks everybody wants.

But she knows on some level that she's hurting Madoka to do this. She hates that, of course. That's why she's all emo and weepy as you put it. She hates herself for doing this, and for locking herself out of any chance to be with Madoka personally, but is convinced that even that is a sacrifice she can make in order to keep Madoka happy. Protip: Watch the post-credits scene if you haven't already. She calls herself a devil because she's convinced herself that's what she has to be - somebody who's willing to hurt people for their own good, even if it breaks her, too.

And that's what I think is good about this story. The series was a story about how love and determination can save people. The movie is a story about how love and determination can destroy people, and that's a lot rarer. It's a story that's a lot less satisfying, because we like to think those impulses are inherently noble, but I think that makes it a story more in need of being told. There are a lot of people out there who feel like love justifies all sorts of abusive behaviors. Stalking, manipulation, intimidation, and so on are all often done in the name of "I love you".

Also! This is even more my opinion than everything else before this, but I much prefer this to the obvious alternative - a story that just gives more screentime to characters we already knew before returning to the status quo at the end. We got actual development here, not just "Hey, look at these folks you love so much!"

[itisnotlogical]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was about to argue "Homura's not that selfish!", but she totally is. Maybe not at first, but by the end she was totally okay with everybody else dying as long as Madoka was alright.

I still didn't really care for the movie, but I'll have to think harder about why.

[Chevaleresse]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I was about to argue "Homura's not that selfish!", but she totally is. Maybe not at first, but by the end she was totally okay with everybody else dying as long as Madoka was alright.

I still didn't really care for the movie, but I'll have to think harder about why.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I guess she is selfish, but not in the traditional sense. She dedicated her entire being to achieving the objective of "protect Madoka" to the point where basically everything else was either not considered at all or only considered in relation to said goal. So, she wasn't truly working toward just her own desires, imo - a selfish person wouldn't usually put themselves through that much suffering for something that ultimately benefits somebody else.

[i2amroy]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I guess she is selfish, but not in the traditional sense. She dedicated her entire being to achieving the objective of "protect Madoka" to the point where basically everything else was either not considered at all or only considered in relation to said goal. So, she wasn't truly working toward just her own desires, imo - a selfish person wouldn't usually put themselves through that much suffering for something that ultimately benefits somebody else.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah I'd say her problem is almost the exact opposite of being selfish; she's totally unselfish, acting completely on other people's desires, to the point where she's even willing to hurt those very people who's desires she is acting on. It's really a pretty typical case of the Always Save the Girl trope, but taken to the absolute extreme (so much so it's actually mentioned on that page ). Homura is so totally focused on what Madoka wanted originally at the expense of everything else that she'll burn not just the city, not just the world, not just the universe, but even a later version of Madoka herself to save her. It's pretty much exactly like Bauglir mentions, Homura never actually changes from her original point, her only goal in life still remains to try to save the original Madoka, and for that all of the rest of time and space can go to hell.

[itisnotlogical]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's what Kyubey said about Sayaka's wish though; is Sayaka really wanting Kamijo to be happy, or is she wanting Kamijo to be something more to her than what he is? One of the major triggers for Sayaka's breakdown is when Hitomi snatches Kamijo away from her, so it seems like the latter is the case.

Homura didn't just want Madoka to survive the battle with Walpurgisnacht. She accomplished that, and Madoka ultimately proved her selflessness by taking on the curses and despair of every magical girl in existence. What Homura wants is for Madoka to stick around and be her idealized best friend forever and ever. So she kidnapped/cloned/whatever'd human!Madoka into existence and fucked up the universe. And, when Homura made a major advance on the clueless Madoka, at the very end of the film, she clearly wasn't happy with Madoka's lukewarm response.

[i2amroy]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's what Kyubey said about Sayaka's wish though; is Sayaka really wanting Kamijo to be happy, or is she wanting Kamijo to be something more to her than what he is? One of the major triggers for Sayaka's breakdown is when Hitomi snatches Kamijo away from her, so it seems like the latter is the case.

Homura didn't just want Madoka to survive the battle with Walpurgisnacht. She accomplished that, and Madoka ultimately proved her selflessness by taking on the curses and despair of every magical girl in existence. What Homura wants is for Madoka to stick around and be her idealized best friend forever and ever. So she kidnapped/cloned/whatever'd human!Madoka into existence and fucked up the universe. And, when Homura made a major advance on the clueless Madoka, at the very end of the film, she clearly wasn't happy with Madoka's lukewarm response.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It might be important to note that staying around as an idealized best friend forever and ever; living a "normal" life was what Madoka wanted at the very beginning of the tv show too. Though I'll definitely give you that the line between utmost selfishness and utmost selflessness that is focused around a single other person's desires happens to be a very thin one in this case, and is definitely close enough to be up to epileptic tree fan interpretations at this point.