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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3122982 times)

i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26535 on: February 23, 2016, 10:19:14 am »

I dunno, it just strikes me as odd that the millions of anime fans outside of Japan would have a negligible impact on sales. They'd be less likely to buy things than fans in Japan proper, but to the point where those numbers can be ignored? That would be very strange.
I'd guess it probably just has to do with typical older business systems struggling to comprehend the effects of non-intended market. It's only been very recently that the development of the internet has even reached the point that cases like that are even possible, and on top of that it's not something that happens too often (in our case a large portion of it is due to the fact that we are so much larger than Japan that even a small portion of us can be a sizable group for them), and as a result all of the various business and marketing people are kinda scrambling to account for those facts. This is then amplified by the effect that when you think of who is going to buy your product you don't typically think of people who are outside of your necessarily intended group. I mean you don't necessarily think about non-US Burger King profits when you consider their user base, but they still have a pretty substantial one in other areas of the world.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26536 on: February 23, 2016, 10:54:01 am »

Huh I just realized that there aren't that many Parodies in anime. I mean like big genuine parodies (So Hayate Combat Butler doesn't count even if it has a lot of parody in it)

O-o

One Punchman was the last parody I saw and before that was Excel Saga... But those really can't be the only two...

I mean there is the unintentional parody of the greatest magical Mary Sue ever who doesn't make any sense.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26537 on: February 23, 2016, 11:06:57 am »

You're forgetting Space Dandy!
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26538 on: February 23, 2016, 12:19:09 pm »

Parodies? "Cute High Earth Defense Club Love!" is that all-boy magical girl one. Straight up parody right there. Another example (NSFW) is Lingerie Soldier Papillon Rose, which is a funny but very NSFW Sailor Moon parody. Sailor Moon parody animes were extremely common. Less so now since Sailor Moon is old news. Parodies focus on popular genres, and that changes.

You have parodies of detective shows, like Cuticle Tantei Inaba and Tantei Opera Milky Holmes. And there are a bunch of parodies of the whole "ninja" thing such as Ninin ga Shinobuden and Kage kara Mamoru

I think the "Excel Saga" type comedies were actually more prevalent in the 80's to 90's:
Assemble Insert
Project A-Ko
Bannou Bunka Neko-Musume
^ Those all parody sci-fi, superpower and mecha anime, because those were what was big at the time.

As for more recent ones, there are still parodies, but they shift to parody whatever is popular. Anime like Dungeon and Konosuba are parodies of the whole .hack / SAO thing. And all "transported to another world" animes in general that are farcical are probably intended as parodies of those animes that play the trope straight.

I'm probably only scratching the surface here btw.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 12:22:10 pm by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26539 on: February 23, 2016, 12:20:43 pm »

Project A-Ko is more of an anime parody itself. It just happens to be more fondly remembered for its outright mecha parody.

for more recent ones, there are still parodies, but they shift to parody whatever is popular. Anime like Dungeon and Konosuba are parodies of the whole .hack / SAO thing. And all "transported to another world" animes in general that are farcical are probably intended as parodies of those animes that play the trope straight.

I'm probably only scratching the surface here btw.

Having watched Dungeon... I am going to ask that we separate "Genre Comedy" and "Parody" and keep them as separate entities.

Since Dungeon doesn't really make statements or take jabs at fantasy. It is just set in a fantasy. (Heck I would go as far as to say it isn't a comedy)

Konosoba assuming it is the one about the guy reincarnated into a videogame world and it sucks. Also isn't really what I'd call a Parody. It is a comedy set in a fantasy universe instead of a parody of a fantasy universe.

They are Pastiches I think is the term.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 12:37:10 pm by Neonivek »
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IronyOwl

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26540 on: February 23, 2016, 02:49:33 pm »

Parody and pastiche don't have a strong dividing line, though, hence "affectionate parody." You can mimic something straight, playfully, tauntingly, etc, but all by degrees and often subject to interpretation. Irregular being blatant parody on accident, OPM being obvious parody but with some parts still played straight, etc.

That said, I wouldn't call Dungeon parody or especially comedic either. It could be, but it never struck me as an intentional jab at anything.
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26541 on: February 23, 2016, 03:59:44 pm »

I dunno, it just strikes me as odd that the millions of anime fans outside of Japan would have a negligible impact on sales. They'd be less likely to buy things than fans in Japan proper, but to the point where those numbers can be ignored? That would be very strange.
I've certainly never heard any indication of western success being more than an interesting and validating trivia for content creators. Your incredulity is the first insinuation I can ever remember hearing about western economic behavior being relevant in any way (aside from the persistent myth that a crunchyroll subscription supports the studio).

Incredibly strange, considering that many large bookstores in the United States sell manga (and less commonly other anime merchandise), not to mention hobby and specialty stores.
That money goes to the licenser, who pays a flat fee to the publisher, who has already payed a flat fee to the studio, and by this point may well be no longer actively dealing with them.

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And of course we all have access to the world's greatest bazaar, the Internet.
Yes, on the internet we can lay the blame for a lack of sales figures at the general lack of business competence of the studios. If BDs were commonly sold on English sites (or available shipped to the US and Europe at all, without going through a Japan-based intermediary) there's no doubt that there would be significant western sales, especially if the studios were to contract with some fansub groups. The fact that this doesn't happen is, perhaps, due to inertia and culture. The studios, after all, are typically not engaged in business directly - this is why they have publishers. But it's also a Japanese thing in general; video games do only marginally better at this and the game development is much more directly engaged with the market.

[previously mentioned crunchyroll myth]
This money does not go to studios. It goes to Crunchyroll, who uses it to license from assorted publishers, pay their own operating costs, and line Peter Chernin's pockets. Since it's private, we don't know what the ratios of those things are, but regardless, the portion that goes to license fees is determined by negotiations, not by anything specific to crunchyroll's success at using the IP later. In other words, it's a flat fee agreed upon ahead of time. And that fee is paid to the publisher.

the rising age and income of the typical western anime viewer, meaning more people prefer to pay rather than pirate.
I think there's a flawed assumption here. Steam and Gaben have demonstrated clearly that what people pay for is a quality service, and while paid streaming is better for that than free streaming, it's still not better than just using the fansubs. For adults with a stable connection, it's equally convenient to just use RSS to download stuff and have it waiting when you get home, and only slightly less so to XDCC if you're getting something on a whim, but the quality is consistently substantially better. While it's certainly possible that age is related (a subscription does presuppose a stable income) I think you're oversimplifying this case.

Why do people care so much about the highest charting animes?
Generally if you like something, you'd like a second season, or at least more well-funded stuff from the same studio. And it's nice to think that the people who made something you enjoyed are going to be able to afford a decent meal this month.

Why does person care about that. The main discussion was actually about how people are bringing up data like pre-order sales, but then cherry-picking - high pre-order sales for shows they like are proof that it's a good/popular show, but high pre-order sales for shows they don't like are suddenly "misleading data". Very convenient that. Obviously that has nothing to do with the actual pre-order sales and everything to do with touting a show someone likes: it's expressing a personal opinion about which is the best show, and trying to use an external source to claim it's "objectively" the best show (it's an appeal to authority).

I don't care about the pre-order sales at all, but I do get annoyed when people cite sources in a misleading way or cherry-pick their sources.
You seem to be assuming ill intent where there isn't any. Why not relax? There's no agenda here.

One Punchman was the last parody I saw
While this might be disputed on the internet as it has parodic elements, OPM is not a parody according to the author.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26542 on: February 23, 2016, 04:01:05 pm »

One Punchman was the last parody I saw
While this might be disputed on the internet as it has parodic elements, OPM is not a parody according to the author.

I'll say the Anime is.

And honestly, I think the author is more ashamed to admit it is a parody or doesn't write it like it is a parody. Then it genuinely not being a parody.

I don't believe the author is just outright insane like say... the guy who wrote the GREATEST unintentional parody of all manga.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 04:05:14 pm by Neonivek »
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Andres

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26543 on: February 23, 2016, 06:01:11 pm »

One Punchman was the last parody I saw
While this might be disputed on the internet as it has parodic elements, OPM is not a parody according to the author.

I'll say the Anime is.

And honestly, I think the author is more ashamed to admit it is a parody or doesn't write it like it is a parody. Then it genuinely not being a parody.

I don't believe the author is just outright insane like say... the guy who wrote the GREATEST unintentional parody of all manga.
I'd have to disagree on the OPM anime being a parody. About the only thing in the show that can be considered a parody is the main character. Everything else is played pretty straight.

But what is the greatest unintentional parody you speak of?


Does anyone know if there's gonna be a sequel to FSN?
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Furtuka

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26544 on: February 23, 2016, 06:03:50 pm »

Depends on how you define sequel. There's a movie(s?) adapting the Heaven's Feel route of Fate currently in production. And the chances of UFOtable adapting Hallow Ataraxia at some point are pretty high, since they said that they would consider it if UBW sold well, and I'm assuming it's been printing money considering the widespread reception and the fanbase. Though it's sortof a half sequel, half sidestory due to spoiler reasons.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 06:06:25 pm by Furtuka »
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Orange Wizard

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26545 on: February 23, 2016, 06:26:44 pm »

I've certainly never heard any indication of western success being more than an interesting and validating trivia for content creators. Your incredulity is the first insinuation I can ever remember hearing about western economic behavior being relevant in any way (aside from the persistent myth that a crunchyroll subscription supports the studio).
I was incredulous as to why you'd think the Western market had no money in it, not why Japan doesn't care about/cater to said market.
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Avis-Mergulus

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26546 on: February 23, 2016, 07:10:45 pm »

Planetes. I'm... really conflicted on that one. On one hand, the characters feel like real people to me (I would say so even if it wasn't manga)... on the other hand, I wouldn't like many of the ones that are presented in a positive light if I met them, I guess (Tanabe first and foremost among those). Or would I? Heck, maybe if it has the power to make me this conflicted, then it must be pretty good literature? It is like... the story itself makes a lot of arguments that I myself have rejected for personal reasons, but it makes them with sincerity. I am still unconvinced by a large part of it, but I have to admire the effort in the presentation.

Strangely enough, the humanity of the characters makes it easier to deal with the ideological difference - I am sure that those people could have existed, that the stories presented could have unfolded the way they did - but this obliges me to nothing: while I am aware that there are people like them and alright with their existence, I am also aware that I am not them. A flat character feels like some sort of mold the author is urging me to fit, while these ones just feel like people whom I am not obliged to imitate. Their solutions are theirs, and mine are mine. I am glad if they are happy with theirs, but I believe that mine are better for me.

Then there's the totally sexy spaceships - most amazing spaceships I have ever seen in manga, 10/10 yes please - and the choppy storytelling with rather inconsistent timeskips (I still feel that there was insufficient time given to the development of Tanabe and Hachimaki's relationship. It felt a little rushed to me, like a lot of it was cut out).

It made me this twitchy, and I can't even read the whole thing because it's apparently not fully translated yet. Shit. Should have checked before I got into it, though I cannot say I regret my decision.

I apologize if this post seems inconsistent. It is very late, and I had to gather my thoughts to sleep, and there was nobody to talk to, so this is more like a diary entry than anything.

I would be grateful if someone who's watched the anime told me how it does compared to the manga. Should I just watch it, or is it better to first buy the Dark Horse omnibus despite that being more expensive? I am sufficiently impressed to shell out for that, I guess.
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IronyOwl

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26547 on: February 23, 2016, 07:12:38 pm »

But what is the greatest unintentional parody you speak of?
Irregular At Magic High School. The pacing and such is crap, but other than making it entertaining it's hard to think of what you'd change if you were making a parody of it.
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Willfor

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26548 on: February 23, 2016, 07:21:29 pm »

Code: [Select]
[20:01:00] <adwarf> So guys, guess what they think is a great idea for a virtual reality mmo?
[20:01:03] <adwarf> Sword Art Online
[20:01:15] <adwarf> They're making (or trying) it into a real VRMMO
[20:11:30] <Willfor> Isn't the central conceit of SAO that it's a giant soul sucking monstrousity
[20:11:55] <Willfor> That's the impression I got from watching a couple of the abridged episodes
[20:15:06] <adwarf> Its a show about people being trapped in a VRMMO
[20:15:12] <adwarf> Which they want to make into a VRMMO
[20:15:23] <adwarf> I believe you can see the problem here
[20:15:34] <Willfor> Yes
[20:15:46] <Willfor> No, actually
[20:15:49] <Willfor> the problem is
[20:15:58] <Willfor> that a lot of people are still going to day 1 buy it
[20:16:13] <Willfor> and that it's not actually going to trap them in a VRMMO
[20:16:56] <Willfor> because that would be one of the most amazingly ironic things every to happen on this green earth, a moment of pure "THEY LITERALLY TOLD YOU WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN", and it's never to be
[20:17:18] <Willfor> RIP that glorious moment
[20:17:23] <Willfor> I will shed tears for thee
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Hawkfrost

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #26549 on: February 23, 2016, 09:08:35 pm »

Planetes. I'm... really conflicted on that one. On one hand, the characters feel like real people to me (I would say so even if it wasn't manga)... on the other hand, I wouldn't like many of the ones that are presented in a positive light if I met them, I guess (Tanabe first and foremost among those). Or would I?

To be fair, you don't have to like a character as a person to like them as a character. A properly depicted character should have faults, because the (usual) goal of writing a character is to make them believable, and real people have opinions and ideas that we can disagree with even if we like or get along with them.

Strangely enough, the humanity of the characters makes it easier to deal with the ideological difference - I am sure that those people could have existed, that the stories presented could have unfolded the way they did - but this obliges me to nothing: while I am aware that there are people like them and alright with their existence, I am also aware that I am not them. A flat character feels like some sort of mold the author is urging me to fit, while these ones just feel like people whom I am not obliged to imitate. Their solutions are theirs, and mine are mine. I am glad if they are happy with theirs, but I believe that mine are better for me.

Personally I quite like it when a character is a standalone thing that you are not intended to relate to; I'm tired of cardboard cutout protagonists who are created to serve as viewer inserts. We could do for having more actual characters heading up anime and manga instead of these weird non-entities that pervade the medium.

I would be grateful if someone who's watched the anime told me how it does compared to the manga. Should I just watch it, or is it better to first buy the Dark Horse omnibus despite that being more expensive? I am sufficiently impressed to shell out for that, I guess.

Unfortunately I never read the manga and so don't know how it compares, but I can at least say that the anime did ultimately leave me pretty happy about watching it and sticking through to the finish. (All that geopolitical drama and intrigue.)
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