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[Reelya]

Well you can take a look at some of the other examples. Like people have said on other sites, if it was once or twice, it might be coincidence, but all the time for the same artist? (Warning: site is a bit NSFW)
https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2014/10/09/no-game-no-lifes-yuu-kamiya-blatantly-traced/

And it's not like anyone else gets accused of tracing in a similar fashion. You can't pick up some random manga artists work and do this with it, or others would already be exposed. The artists involved would be able to tell that someone is doing this. If it's mere coincidence and could be done to any artwork, then where are the examples of that?

Also, one of the commenters notes that most of the artworks he is accused of copying were published on Pixiv. Now, Pixiv was also the place where the NGNL anime staff got the magical circle image they apologized for outright stealing. Coincidence, I'm sure.

[NullForceOmega]

Yeah, while a couple of those examples aren't perfect matches, the sheer number that are is really telling.  I was willing to give some benefit of doubt based on the example you posted Reelya, but after looking at that page I'm with you.

[Trapezohedron]

As usual avoid the comments section on the NSFW website.

[Reelya]

Yeah sorry about that, I noted NSFW on the link just in case.

It's kind of telling that they've got not one but TWO completely separate plagiarism scandals attached to NGNL (the tracing one and the outright stolen artwork used in the show), and both of them apparently involve art sourced from Pixiv. My take is that this guy stuck Madhouse in the shit too by passing them Pixiv art alongside his original art and not telling them.

I can't see Madhouse making such a noob error by themselves. Some NGNL fans are blaming those who exposed the tracing as "ruining" the show and making it so we can't get a sequel. If these two cases are both Kamiya Yuu's fault, which makes a lot of sense, then it would more be an issue that he just dragged a Madhouse's reputation through the mud because of his shit, and forced them to have to make a public apology for outright stealing art. Consider how seriously saving face is in the Japanese corporate world. They're not going to publicly blame the creator, but the evidence is strong that he's behind this fuckup, which makes an NGNL2 much less likely, and likely to be from a different studio.

[IronyOwl]

As usual avoid the comments section on the NSFW website.

I thought it would be funny. I was wrong.

Some NGNL fans are blaming those who exposed the tracing as "ruining" the show and making it so we can't get a sequel. If these two cases are both Kamiya Yuu's fault, which makes a lot of sense, then it would more be an issue that he just dragged a Madhouse's reputation through the mud because of his shit, and forced them to have to make a public apology for outright stealing art. Consider how seriously saving face is in the Japanese corporate world. They're not going to publicly blame the creator, but the evidence is strong that he's behind this fuckup, which makes an NGNL2 much less likely, and likely to be from a different studio.

If you don't see it as an issue (such as because you don't understand that this is literally tracing, not "using it as a reference," or because you think it's just a valid thing to do) and like NGNL, then it could certainly seem like people who don't like what you like are torpedoing your series out of spite.

[Trapezohedron]

I still don't understand how those pictures seem to match up around 70% of them with NGNL's art and yet people are defending Y.Kamiya even if it's pretty obvious it IS tracing, considering there's a lot of them to go around.

[IronyOwl]

I would assume they either don't understand what they're seeing, ie the lines matching up perfectly in a way that really can't happen any other way with any frequency; or else they just don't care because only parts of the picture are traced or it's a totally different image finished or it's not hurting anything etc.

Well, no, mostly I'd assume they're making mindless animal noises in response to perceived other animal noises threatening something they like. But, for the ones who actually have an opinion beyond "stop impugning my waifu," I'd assume the above.

[Furtuka]

HAPPY THIRD IMPACT EVERYONE

[JoshuaFH]

HAPPY THIRD IMPACT EVERYONE

Sorry Asuka

Everyone's Kool-aid now.

[Reelya]

I'm looking around at other manga plagiarism cases. Another case involved an author of a shoujo manga "Flower of Eden". She admitted to tracing artwork from a couple of other mangakas, and had her series cancelled. She got back into the industry about 2 years later, so that would be the fair penalty for this sort of thing. That was back in 2004. So rather than being an everyday thing that "all artists do", someone in the manga world is caught doing this every 10 years or so ...

The author of Slam Dunk was also found to be copying photos of NBA plays around 2007. But I'm very meh on that being plagiarism. Because when asked he'd already mentioned that he used NBA photos from magazines and TV as a reference. And also, while the poses are similar, they're clearly not traced...

Gene Simmon's (KISS) son was accused of ripping off whole panels from Bleach, etc, for his 2009 English-language manga, Incarnate. Some panels are pretty similar, and it's case of pure quantity here as well rather than isolated examples. Maybe people more familiar with Bleach can give their opinion:
http://bleachness.livejournal.com/446299.html

So, uh, from yesterday night until this morning, there've been an amazing number of messages from overseas fans along the lines of "There's a manga imitating BLEACH in America!" Well, I had a look at the site and I don't understand English that well, but I think what's written there is something like "It's a manga drawn by Gene Simmons' son, Nick Simmons."

The fact that Gene Simmon's son is a manga-ka disturbs me more than whether he's really copying or not.

Here's one about a Chinese publisher of teen novels that seem obsessed with ripping of Clamp's art. Some of the plagiarism art is clearly more detailed than the originals, so that makes it ok to steal, according to the NGNL fans
http://comipress.com/article/2007/07/09/2267.html
They didn't trace this so it's all legit:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Furtuka]

I just watched the preview episode of Macross Delta. I'm not sure what I just saw. But it has my attention. Kawamori wasn't kidding when he said he was going for a fusion between Macross Plus and Macross 7. Its uh very AKB0048 and then suddenly DOGFIGHTS DOGFIGHTS DOGFIGHTS and then back to AKB0048.

Putting it through some thought the weirdness makes a massive amount more sense when filtered through knowledge of the previous series. But dear lord this is gonna be a total WTF for newcomers.

Speaking of which, how hospitable is Macross Frontier to newcomers? I haven't fully gotten to it yet (plan to and do that before delta officially starts through), but I have a friend who is interested in getting into Macross but getting him to watch pre-2000s shows is like pulling teeth so I doubt I'll be able to get him to watch SDF any time soon.

[Neonivek]

It REALLY depends on how old they are...

Though I might be thinking of just Macross.

[Orange Wizard]

I dunno, I find Great Teacher Onizuka really hard to watch, even though it aired in '99 and by all logic should be better than, say, LoGH, which aired a decade earlier. But I find LoGH's animation fine and GTO's painful. Though YMMV, obviously.

[Neonivek]

I dunno, I find Great Teacher Onizuka really hard to watch, even though it aired in '99 and by all logic should be better than, say, LoGH, which aired a decade earlier. But I find LoGH's animation fine and GTO's painful. Though YMMV, obviously.

It has more to do with the tolerance for the acting mind you. Great Teacher Onizuka doesn't have the "Old Fashioned Anime acting" that... I kind of love.

[Reelya]

For entry-level Macross, try this order:

Macross Zero (no brainer since it's so damn pretty)
Macross Plus (optional, but helpful)
(at least 3-4 eps of the 1982 SDF Macross to get the main invasion story)
Macross Frontier

Macross Frontier was very noob friendly in my opinion. You can get the full story without anything else, but you're missing out a lot of the referential stuff, which is just "lost potential" really, not a fault.

Zero is short, and has quality post-2000s animation, it cost a lot more per episode to make than Frontier so it's a no-brainer. For CGI Macross, it's the best animation, followed by Frontier. There are some character connections right at the start of Frontier that tie into Zero as well, so that can help give more sense of the Macross "world" to the Frontier experience.

The main singer in Frontier is also a homage to Sharon Apple in Macross Plus. And since Plus is short, that might be good to show as well (but after wowing him with the more modern "Zero" special effects).

It's really a shame not to see the original Macross before Frontier though. But even a small number of SDF Macross episodes would make a lot of difference in picking up references in Frontier. One possibility would be to watch the first 3 eps of SDF Macross then watch the movie, DYRL (explain that the story in the movie is slightly different, or he could carry on the TV show). Since the movie lacks the invasion introduction, but packs the rest of the relevant information in. That's probably as compact as you could get it and still make sense.

Macross 7 is a definite no, and there aren't enough Macross 7 references in Frontier to bother, really.