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[Putnam]

4kids making you lose faith in dubs is like sonic '06 making you lose faith in video games

"this one thing was awful so the entire medium is ruined"

[Flying Dice]

Hey, Sturgeon's Revelation applies to dubs just as much as anything else. It's just easier to pick out the crap because there are basically only three things to care about:

1. Are the VAs incompetent? Yes Sometimes.
2. Is the localization shitty? Almost always. I too will go enjoy some jelly donuts.
3. Is the translation anywhere in the ballpark in terms of some combination of nuanced meaning and organic equivalency? Or more simply: Is translation accurate? Does translation possess artistic merit in instances of deviation?

That last one is one where I actually can think of a decent number of good examples, though they're more related to songs than dubs, where the translator avoided literal and lifeless translations in favor of something which isn't perfectly 1:1 but which is better-sounding and more internally consistent than a literal translation. And then there are the dubs and title translations that discard all semblance of the core meaning, never mind wordplay or subtle implications/alternate meanings.

At the very worst, a mediocre/shit sub is better than a mediocre/shit dub because you only have to deal with two of those problems at the very worst, usually only the last one (though the second tends to be replaced with overdone weebisms that get turned into memes if they're stupid enough). Mostly it's just the same problem of lazy translators without adding bored talentless VAs and hamfisted localization, though.

[Neonivek]

Well the same argument can be made ... I'm not American either, and it breaks immersion in the story less if my Japanese characters speak Japanese than if they sound like New Yorkers or like they're from Gone With The Wind. If they try and localize this stuff, it's usually done really badly as well, putting Japanese stuff in American terms that clearly don't fit what you see on the screen.

Anyway I'm hungry so I'm off for some donuts. Nothing beats a jelly-filled donut.

You are aware a LOT of the time the characters aren't Japanese or speaking Japanese right?

Madbull 34 is probably the only time I can think of where they gave the characters thick accents, with mildly ok voice acting, where it probably fit more then the Japanese.

Or another one is Hetalia where in the English version they attempted to give every country accurate accents when possible (I still prefer the Japanese one, if only because of the delivery of certain jokes get muddled in the dub)

Or rather... Japan never EVER attempts accents unless it is Kansai. Outside racism and the "Faux-Russian", I can't think of many Animes that attempted any sort of accent appropriate for the country. In fact I would go so far as to say that a lot of the time the localization often will go out of its way to give characters normal dialog (In fact subs often fudge details about the EXACT words characters are using just because it fits more... while the actual word is "ehh in the ballpark")

Or rather... Localization gets a bad rep when frankly bad localization should.

Compare Frog's Original Dialog versus his "Fixed Dialog". His Original Localized dialog quite handily characterized him as sort of a overdramatic blowhard which fit in quite well (What with him sequestering himself far away because of one single mistake he made... He kind of is a drama queen). Versus the "Fixed Dialog" (which is more of a direct translation) where he is, a person who exists! A lot of the time a direct translation just leaves a character, well... devoid of character.

Or I could point to Full Moon Wo Sagashite's horrible dub, but beyond that it kept all the character's names in tact, including the ones that are a mouthful in English. As well because the Japanese are more then willing to sort of "shorten names" (Takuto is often pronounced Tacto and Eichi is often pronounced Ech) but English isn't, it gives everyone long hard names. Or Freeken Sailormoon where in the manga they kept her original name... which is Bunny... Which is a horrible name. While in the English Localized Dub they gave her the name of Serena, which is just as symbolic as "Usagi/Bunny/Rabbit" but less stupid in English.

Other great Localization moves
-Changing Butz to Bartz
-Changing Tina to Tera (Bonus points for actually being MORE symbolic)

Frankly "Jelly Dohnuts" is the least of the translation oddities with Pokémon... or shall we forget the magic of them predicting Wendy's Bacon Double Cheeseburger?

[UXLZ]

My issue isn't with the translation, it's with the voice acting.

4kids making you lose faith in dubs is like sonic '06 making you lose faith in video games

"this one thing was awful so the entire medium is ruined"

There are a lot more video game companies than there are localisation ones for anime. Sonic '06 just made me lose faith in its dev, not that I ever had any in the first place.

Besides, I just prefer the Japanese dialogue overall. 4kids is what made me dislike dubs, but I always liked Subs more even when I was basically neutral on them.

[Andres]

I haven't listened to the Jap dub of FMA, but my recommendation is to watch the English dubbed version. Nearly all of the names are in English and I think it would be easier on the ears to hear them pronounced by people who actually speak English.

[Putnam]

My issue isn't with the translation, it's with the voice acting.

That's really dependent on who's doing the dubbing. Actually, now that I think of it, Dragon Ball Super's english dub is probably going to be better than the original, at least early on, simply because Kaio-sama's voice actor in Japan is really lackluster nowadays (because he's really old, I think).

There are a lot more video game companies than there are localisation ones for anime.

...Irrelevant? 1/3 things being bad is just as indicative of all of them being bad as 1/1000.

[Orange Wizard]

...Irrelevant? 1/3 things being bad is just as indicative of all of them being bad as 1/1000.

True, but if every egg you cracked open had a one in three chance of being rotten, you'd quickly get sick of eggs.

[Putnam]

Not if you could see reviews and opinions from people who have already eaten the egg before you cracked it open.

you couldn't see it but i started laughing the instant I wrote "reviews"

[Reelya]

BTW: I'm liking this new ~8 minute format they seem to be shifting to for a lot of short shows. There are some crappy harems that they are now doing as 8 minute shows, which actually seems about right for a lot of stuff in this genre. This seems better than e.g. trying to give those shows a full 24 minutes per episode. Consider the beach or onsen episode. If it's 24 minute they have to pad it out with basically 15 minute of fluff (travel to the beach, chitchat, getting ready. going home) around the bit that they're selling, the girls in swimsuits or towels. In an 8 minute harem, well, the episode would just start with them already at the beach and get straight to the point, then be over. Much better for all involved.

You are aware a LOT of the time the characters aren't Japanese or speaking Japanese right?

"A lot" by sheer numbers of there being "a lot" of anime. That's like saying "a lot" of American movies aren't set in America. Sure, America makes a lot of movies with international, fantasy or sci-fi settings, but the sheer bulk of American movies are set in America, and feature characters with American names. The same with anime and Japan / Japanese names. If you track the most common Japanese names as used in anime I'm sure you'll find single name examples (maybe Sakura) that are used in more animes than all the animes with purely foreign names put together. Here are a list of characters named "aoi"

http://myanimelist.net/character.php?q=aoi
There are over 250 names on this list, and you'd have to doubt whether every single character called aoi even made it into this list. I gave up counting at 100, but I was about 40% through the list. I would actually question your ability to find 250 worthwhile anime that aren't set in Japan. The sakura list was at least twice as long as this, just estimating off the relative size of the scroll bar when that page loaded, so there are at least 500 separate characters called some variation of "Sakura" (though that includes some last names etc).

For example, just off the shows I'm currently watching, which weren't selected for any specific purpose except they were airing ... 17/21 are in Japan. Of the four remaining ... one is historical fantasy in the middle east, would gain nothing from being in American. One is in America (Kekkai Sensen), one is generic parody JRPG (Bikini Warriors), so would gain nothing from having American accents do the reactions to being tentacle-raped by dungeon monsters, and one is the new Hetalia season. So only 2/21 could be justified to use American accents. Even for ones set in Europe. it's actually disconcerting if everyone sounds American.

[Zangi]

Less then legal sources may have the japanese title.  Especially when there is no english release equivalent when it was first uploaded.
Can't really assume that anime 'newbies' (or whatever term you folks were using) come from a single source.

Also, I like subs.  Its basically what I grew up with.

[i2amroy]

I haven't listened to the Jap dub of FMA, but my recommendation is to watch the English dubbed version. Nearly all of the names are in English and I think it would be easier on the ears to hear them pronounced by people who actually speak English.

FMA and FMA:B are actually two of the few shows I've encountered that they did a very good job on the dubbing; things sound basically natural, the voices match the characters fairly well, and they weren't afraid to put a word in as "you bastard" when they needed to. I'd be willing to bet that that's at least a part of the reason why FMA:B is widely considered to be one of the best anime ever on many anime rating sites, it's got people from both sides of the fence upvoting it.

Madbull 34 is probably the only time I can think of where they gave the characters thick accents, with mildly ok voice acting, where it probably fit more then the Japanese.

Only example I can think of is Baccano!, which has rather good accents that match the location for most of the characters. It's not quite as smooth as the subbed version is, but it's still a totally watchable dub.

[Neonivek]

You are aware a LOT of the time the characters aren't Japanese or speaking Japanese right?

"A lot" by sheer numbers of there being "a lot" of anime. That's like saying "a lot" of American movies aren't set in America. Sure, America makes a lot of movies with international, fantasy or sci-fi settings, but the sheer bulk of American movies are set in America, and feature characters with American names. The same with anime and Japan / Japanese names. If you track the most common Japanese names as used in anime I'm sure you'll find single name examples (maybe Sakura) that are used in more animes than all the animes with purely foreign names put together. Here are a list of characters named "aoi"

Japan has a lot less... well I am not sure what the word is... Ethnocentrism then America has when it comes to media. Heck most American movies can't even take place in another country unless an American is there.

So there are a lot more Anime taking place in a fantasy Europe or Sci-Fi America or just flat out USA/Europe/Canada... Then there are American shows that take place in not the USA.

[Putnam]

I haven't listened to the Jap dub of FMA, but my recommendation is to watch the English dubbed version. Nearly all of the names are in English and I think it would be easier on the ears to hear them pronounced by people who actually speak English.

things sound basically natural, the voices match the characters fairly well, and they weren't afraid to put a word in as "you bastard" when they needed to.

they don't really show anime on children's TV anymore so that's a universal constant, even for children's anime like one piece

[GreatJustice]

You are aware a LOT of the time the characters aren't Japanese or speaking Japanese right?

"A lot" by sheer numbers of there being "a lot" of anime. That's like saying "a lot" of American movies aren't set in America. Sure, America makes a lot of movies with international, fantasy or sci-fi settings, but the sheer bulk of American movies are set in America, and feature characters with American names. The same with anime and Japan / Japanese names. If you track the most common Japanese names as used in anime I'm sure you'll find single name examples (maybe Sakura) that are used in more animes than all the animes with purely foreign names put together. Here are a list of characters named "aoi"

Japan has a lot less... well I am not sure what the word is... Ethnocentrism then America has when it comes to media. Heck most American movies can't even take place in another country unless an American is there.

So there are a lot more Anime taking place in a fantasy Europe or Sci-Fi America or just flat out USA/Europe/Canada... Then there are American shows that take place in not the USA.

I'm not so sure about that. Even just counting shows set outside of Japan, there seem to be an inordinate number of Japanese tourists, inexplicably half-Japanese characters, shows with multinational casts where the lead is Japanese, etc.

There probably are more Japanese shows set outside of Japan than American shows set outside of the US, but that isn't really a fair comparison since to my understanding the bulk of American TV for the past ~60 years has been composed of sitcoms, soap operas, etc that gain nothing from being set in a foreign country. If you account for that, you get a similar amount of variation from American TV. Alternatively, look at American movies, which are probably even more likely to be set outside the US than anime.

There probably is more anime of "Western fantasy"  than there are American shows about "Eastern fantasy", but that probably has more to do with the fact that Tolkien, D&D, etc are all pretty well known in Japan whereas Japanese folklore is pretty well unknown in the US.

[Neonivek]

By the by Adventure Time and SpongeBob Square Pants both take place in the USA.

The only show right now I can think of that doesn't take place in the USA or a USA-expy (and wasn't made by another country... so I am not counting Cybersix or any British show) is Game of Thrones.

Well except for 4 and under shows.