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[Orange Wizard]

I think Frumple's point was less that the incests are weird and more that the incests (and probably romance in general) don't make any sense to include as part of the story.
Or maybe I'm just making that up.

[Reelya]

at least a very strong insistence on calling the person you're intending to vigorously bed your brother/sister.

One thing that might get misconstrued ... is that in Japanese stories often a younger character of either gender will call an older character "onii-chan" (older brother) or "onee-chan" (older sister) purely because they look up to them. In these instances there doesn't seem to be any implication of literal sibling relationship. Onii-chan is often used how we would use "bro", so maybe we're reading this way too literally in a way that would surprise Japanese people. Perhaps they don't go "rofl they're implying incest!" because a girl calls someone onii-chan any more than we'd do that for the word "bro".

Also I wouldn't consider Kancolle to be mecha. They're girls that wear ship parts. Basically meat with guns.

"Mecha" technically just means machines, not necessarily robots. "Mecha musume" as a term originated in a line of Konami figures which were anthropomorphic war machines. The key thing was that the girls personify the machine, they're not a separate girl riding the machine. The origination of the term means that Kancolle is a literal interpretation of the original mecha musume concept, and things like Sky Girls, Infinite Stratos, Dave a Live etc don't really qualify, even though they're also often refered to as mecha musume. Exoskeletons or actual mecha that they ride in don't count. Strike Witches counts more, since they sort of fuse with the plane parts, they personify the pilot of the original plane, and they actually carry the plane's armaments in their hands.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoeAnthropomorphism

[UXLZ]

I thought that was Aniki? Well, that was the gang version, at least.

[Reelya]

I thought that was Aniki? Well, that was the gang version, at least.

Aniki is more common when you have two males the same age, to indicate who follows who. Slightly younger males will definitely call older boys onii-chan, but I've never heard a younger male or a girl call an older male "aniki".

http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=391043

So, Onii-chan means older brother, from what I understand, but why in anime, do non-family members refer to some guys as Onii-chan, or Onii-san, when the guy is not their brother?

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/JapaneseSiblingTerminology?from=Main.JapaneseSiblingTerminology

It is also not uncommon for sibling terminology to be used for certain non-siblings. "Onii-san" and its variants are often used by children for older non-relatives (expect the kid Victim of the Week to address the hero this way throughout the episode, for example.) This one's hard for translators — you want to stay true to the original, but can't exactly have the kid call the hero "Big brother" despite the fact that they've clearly never met before.

https://bugfox.net/fun/2008/10/26/japanese-family-titles-in-anime/

onii-san Older brother. (Sometimes used to address older male cousins.)
onee-san Older sister (or older female cousin.)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/JapaneseHonorifics?from=Main.JapaneseHonorifics

-niisan/-neesan
    Literally refers to one's older brother or sister, respectively, but can also be used to refer to a relative within your generation that is older than you (i.e. an older cousin) or a slightly older close friend that you consider to be like a brother or sister, similar to -senpai.

So when the cousin in SAO calls him onii-chan, that's actually a normal way cousins refer to each other in Japan, rather than some deliberate attempt to portray her as a pretend sister.

[Frumple]

... uh, iirc, the thing with SAO is that while sugu is a cousin, she was also raised alongside kirito. Was basically adopted, which is why she calls him brother, because they grew up as brother and sister, and at the time of the show they were living in the same house. It's as squicky as any adopted sibling romance would be, particularly when the adoption happened young, actual blood relation or not. Even if the actual fornicating regarding that particular pairing only happens in the supplementary material.

The bigger thing re: that is that the relevant stuff I'm reading isn't being translated from japanese -- it's korean. Manwha, really, but eh. Different language, different culture, etc., etc.

As for the rest... look. These aren't historical manga. The culture from several hundred years back is relatively irrelevant, and regarding the culture of now, which is what the writers are part of, this stuff stands out as odd, especially, as per OW, given that romance isn't exactly the big draw. Taking time off from the punch magic is one thing, but for whatever reason they decided to take that time off in a whole seemingly unusual direction. If it's genre normative, as neo suggested, though... okay. That's really all I was asking.

[Reelya]

The point I made before is still relevant, that e.g. when Wagner composed Die Walkure back in the 1860's, that in no way implies that twincest was socially acceptable at that time in Germany.

So the difference is not that such things are or are not acceptable in real life (they're no more taboo than they were in Wagners' Germany), it's that our culture has decided to censor the entire topic from discussion, to the point that Wagner would not be allowed to create the works that he did, had he been writing today. We have plenty of fiction that addresses taboo topics already, so the line we draw with specific topics is probably completely arbitrary. For example rape, murder and cannibalism are all morally questionable yet you can make movies about those without really drawing any attention. Yet if you made a sibling-love drama then people would freak out more than they do for something like The Human Centipede.

So our culture with a plethora of gore and cannibalism subgenres of horror, it's a bit hypocritical to turn around and say that Japan's somehow weird and behind the times, because we ditched one particular subgenre of drama that they didn't.

[Furtuka]

JAM Project is doing the opening for One Punch Man yessssssssss

[UXLZ]

I don't really see sibling-love as anything so ridiculously bad. A bit weird, certainly, but no worse than Furries or all the other fetishes out there.

Maybe it's because I don't have a sister and therefore don't properly understand the absolute disgust a lot of people have for it. *shrugs*

[Frumple]

... we're actually biologically wired to strongly lean towards not finding our siblings attractive. There's a psych term for it and everything. Folks we grow up with during a particular age range, especially when they share certain (physical, inherited) traits with us, are fairly close to a hardwired off switch for the libido. Thus, by and large, the taboo.

And hey, wincest is fine, I just like to know it's what I'm walking into.

[Willfor]

... we're actually biologically wired to strongly lean towards not finding our siblings attractive. There's a psych term for it and everything. Folks we grow up with during a particular age range, especially when they share certain (physical, inherited) traits with us, are fairly close to a hardwired off switch for the libido. Thus, by and large, the taboo.

The flip side of the coin -- though I'm not entirely sure of what situations this is presented in re: the japanese animes -- shows that without that aspect of growing up with a person, those same physical inherited traits can be found attractive when two closely related people are placed into a close relationship later in life.

Though both of these processes have a decent margin of error, I believe.

[UXLZ]

Yes, there's the biological imperative for the person themselves to find their siblings not attractive, but we're talking about if they do. Just because something is different, it doesn't mean it's wrong, and I've never actually seen an argument against sibling love that doesn't boil down to "Ewww, Gross!"

@Will: I believe that those who look similar to yourself/your family but not uncomfortably close can be seen as the most attractive, but it varies.

[Radio Controlled]

Yes, there's the biological imperative for the person themselves to find their siblings not attractive, but we're talking about if they do/i]. Just because something is different, it doesn't mean it's wrong, and I've never actually seen an argument against sibling love that doesn't boil down to "Ewww, Gross!"

Inbreeding, a phenomenon with negative effects, is often used as a good argument, no?

[UXLZ]

That's an argument against sibling reproduction, not love. You can argue "one thing leads to another", but in that case we may as well also consider women over the age of 40,(I believe?) just as "bad". (Increased rate of down syndrome, possibly other stuff.)

[Radio Controlled]

That's an argument against sibling reproduction, not love. You can argue "one thing leads to another", but in that case we may as well also consider women over the age of 40,(I believe?) just as "bad". (Increased rate of down syndrome, possibly other stuff.)

Ah, like that, wasn't fully clear. Yeah, no, I do think that if it's between consenting adults capable of making responsible decisions (yada yada lawyer talk) they can love whoever they want. Though you can say it makes some sense: in a monogamous society, if two people love each other and choose to stay committed to each other, in this case they will either reproduce and have inbreeding, or don't and you loose two more fertile people who could've made children to help sustain the tribe, so it makes sense that that kind of love would be 'discouraged' in certain settings.

[notquitethere]

Surely there must be someone amongst you who is able to give a recommendation.

I just finished watch PSYCHO-PASS and I was very impressed.

Spoiler: Actual spoilers (click to show/hide)

I loved the way the season ended with the new detective arriving in a direct parallel to the beginning of the series. I was almost welling up a bit when Akane said the enforcers were humans just like the detective (in contrast to being told they were hunting dogs at the beginning of the series).

Is the second season worth bothering with? I heard it was written by different people. Also, are there any other animes (or any other kind of show, really) that have the following features?

- Not too long
- An exploration of an intriguing idea or deep theme
- Multi-faceted characters that could be real human beings
- A series-arc where things tie together (i.e. strong structure, minimal filler)

I felt Death Note came close, but the bottom fell out of it half-way through. Baccanno! has completely ridiculous characters, but they're uniquely characterised and they have interesting motivations, and the mysteries of the setting carry it forward. I've been enjoying Mushishi, but in general I prefer something with a metaplot. I was liking the original Full Metal Alchemist, so I should probably return to that at some point.