Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 1494 1495 [1496] 1497 1498 ... 2193

Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3121678 times)

Flying Dice

  • Bay Watcher
  • inveterate shitposter
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22425 on: May 05, 2015, 08:30:56 pm »

That's what is honestly so baffling to me. There's more casual, social violence in your average Tom & Jerry or Southpark episode than in entire volumes or seasons of ZnT.
ZnT is a lightnovel. Those parts read as literal torture.

Yeah that is what astonished me the most.

I honestly thought the Anime made it up...
Did you literally just ignore the rest of the conversation where I was referencing the LNs, lol?

Again, I say tomato, you say cabbage. That was the point I was making. If you read it as torture, sure, but point where the text implies that anyone, Saito included, is more than mildly annoyed?

Spoiler: Volume 1 (click to show/hide)

"Ow, that hurts, idiot!" "This coffee is too hot!"

And then a couple seconds later, he grabs her, and his mind is already off on another perverted tangent. Even if you want to read this straight, you're ignoring other realities, namely that Louise is not only 16 but almost abnormally short and thin for her age; her stats list her as being 4'9". If you want to read it without any nod towards authorial intent or tone, she was attempting and failing to whip him. That, or it was a mistranslation and it was a riding crop, which seems likely, given both the dimensions of her room and her build.

Personal experience on both counts here: I've been hit with a riding crop on bare skin. It stings a little, for a minute or two at worst. I've also used a horsewhip, and I had a damned hard time cracking it, and I had close to two feet on Louise at the time, not to mention this thing called muscle tone which a sedentary and largely idle squishy-mage teenager seems unlikely to possess. Mooooving on.

Spoiler: Volume 2 (click to show/hide)

Oh yes, Saito just about rapes her, but Louise is a sadistic harpy because the author wanted a "funny" segue out of the scene. Yes sir, this whipping was completely out-of-the-blue, unjustified torture, and it's definitely what we should be taking issue with in this scene. It's not as if we're ignoring worse things happening literally a page earlier, or ignoring the obvious attempt at physical humor.

But fuck it. I'm done. If you want to just repeat "This is what I think the text says, and that's what counts, regardless of what the genre or tone of the series is, regardless of what the text literally says in many places, &c." have at it. God, I can't believe I've been wasting time on a circular argument about the canon events of a series that's literally only good when a competent author completely ignores canon and uses the setting to tell their own story.  :-\
Logged


Aurora on small monitors:
1. Game Parameters -> Reduced Height Windows.
2. Lock taskbar to the right side of your desktop.
3. Run Resize Enable

Bauglir

  • Bay Watcher
  • Let us make Good
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22426 on: May 05, 2015, 08:55:35 pm »

a series that's literally only good when a competent author completely ignores canon and uses the setting to tell their own story.  :-\
Wait, has this whole conversation secretly been about Fate/Stay Night?
Logged
In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22427 on: May 05, 2015, 09:17:17 pm »

I don't know... I barely even know what Flying Dice is even talking about at all. The words that Flying Dice are saying seem very random to me, like strings of words, phrases, and ideas that I can tell are meant to be together but for the life of me I cannot decipher them.

I tried three times and apparently was wrong three times.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 09:28:07 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

Frumple

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Prettiest Kyuuki
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22428 on: May 05, 2015, 09:18:51 pm »

... I'm looking at the LN right now, actually, because I could have sworn I've read the things and the discussion was ringing no bells whatsoever, and really not seeing it. Looking at the second chapter of the first volume right now, which includes the scene with the riding crop, and the word torture is used, but read like a torture scene... no. I've unfortunately read more of those than I'd like, and that bit of text doesn't even faintly resemble them. It's definitely on the more violent side of the whole tsundere nonsense, but it's also definitely just that.

Also damn, I didn't realize the anime actually toned down saito's scuzziness. Yikes. Both the times (skimmed up to the second volume now) the whip's been involved saito has come off as just a wee titch rape-y.

Third one I've ran in to actually did git a bit rough, but apparently did so little that saito was back to forcefully molesting louise <12 hours later. Then there's a volume of... nothing. Next one has a small bit that's mostly not detailed and from which saito recovers basically instantly, and in something like a hour is fighting in mortal combat with super mage zombies. Then nothing until roughly a volume later, and that not detailed and the setup for a crappy one-liner. And now I've skimmed through a third of the available material and want to read something else :V

But in the first six volumes, I've only noticed one thing that even toes the line of reading like a torture scene, and that was... not really treated seriously by the text itself. I can see how someone that's not actually ran in to the real thing could be made uncomfortable by that particular scene, though.
Logged
Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

Andres

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22429 on: May 05, 2015, 09:37:54 pm »

Okay, so.

I've heard a bunch of friends at school talking about anime, but I'm not sure what that is.

So for the uninitiated, what is anime and why are people so fanatic about it?

Japanese ripoffs of old American cartoons.

Or, slightly more seriously, you're going to get a response equivalent to asking someone "what are novels?"

"Anime" refers to, generally, cartoons made in Japan; some are adaptions of comics, games, or novels, others are standalone. They generally cover a wider range than western cartoons by virtue of having things other than children's shows or adult humor. That said, a lot of the series that have the largest fanbases in the West tend to be the ones directed at the 9-15 demographic, in part because that's when a lot of people over here started or start watching anime. If you're still in public school, I'd give about 60-70% odds that this is what your friends are watching

There's also a good selection of works that are partially or wholly targeted at adults which tend to be more along the lines of animated drama, romance, politics, science-fiction, &c. There's the ten-cent answer.

e: I'll throw up some links to clips from some of the quality works out there. Two from Cowboy Bebop, two from Baccano!, and one from Fate/Zero.
NEERRRRRD!

Okay, so.

I've heard a bunch of friends at school talking about anime, but I'm not sure what that is.

So for the uninitiated, what is anime and why are people so fanatic about it?
Japanese cartoons. I guess people are fanatic about it for the same reasons people are fanatic about comics, so I have no freaking idea.
Logged
All fanfics are heresy, each and every one, especially the shipping ones. Those are by far the worst.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22430 on: May 05, 2015, 09:39:13 pm »

Quote
I can see how someone that's not actually ran in to the real thing could be made uncomfortable by that particular scene, though.

I find that... sliiightly insulting... but if you want to see scenes of fake abuse, we can compare them.

But I am well aware that the context for both the LN and the Anime is that these scenes are meant to be humorous Tsundere as well as being sexy forms of bdsm (Ignoring that no... that isn't BDSM... but you are meant to take it AS bdsm)

To me though that is what makes it so bad.

If the abuse was just abuse and you weren't meant to get off on it while finding it harmlessly hillarious instead... I'd be fine... if anything I'd be talking about how great ZnT is and how it wasn't afraid to make its characters flawed.

Making Saito less rapey in the anime was a good choice...

SURE... The Corpse Party torture porn is far worse... But they didn't excuse that it wasn't reaaaally torture, nor were you not meant to be shocked that it was torture. I don't have a vendetta against Corpse Party for some of its depravity (Though I will say it often goes too far...)

Sure... Higurashi sometimes dives into boarderline torture porn too and far worse then ZnT does... yet once again you are meant to be horrified at it even if you get off.

Yet the one scene that just flat out broke all hope of me ever liking the anime, beyond the fact that it isn't very good and sets up premises it never explores, was just the scene where Zero whips the kid in her underwear and pretty brutally too... until a someone walks in on them and they get embarrassed.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 10:22:19 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

Reelya

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22431 on: May 05, 2015, 10:26:33 pm »

Never heard of it, but the 1k+ pages intrigues me. Wuzzit?

1k pages of this thread I think...

Last Exile is on my list. I'll probably get around to it next decade sometime :/

But you can also use search in threads, to see if anyone has mentioned the show before.

Searching for "exile" in this thread shows that it has the Vector stamp of approval.

4maskwolf

  • Bay Watcher
  • 4mask always angle, do figure theirs!
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22432 on: May 05, 2015, 10:46:11 pm »

Oh hey somebody new posted in the thread.

Yeah, pretty much what the other people said is what anime is.  If you have any specific questions, I suppose you could ask those, but a general "what is anime" question is too broad.  And frankly, I'm not qualified to answer any questions regarding anime, seeing as how I've watched exactly four animes (the whole shows, not just four episodes).

I'm just amazed that Neonevik is still raging about something in this thread.  I don't know anything about the anime/LN he's talking about, but I mean, if you don't like it, don't watch it, I guess.  I'm probably missing the gist of the argument, but still...

ggamer

  • Bay Watcher
  • Reach Heaven through Violence
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22433 on: May 05, 2015, 10:48:03 pm »

Oh hey somebody new posted in the thread.

Yeah, pretty much what the other people said is what anime is.  If you have any specific questions, I suppose you could ask those, but a general "what is anime" question is too broad.  And frankly, I'm not qualified to answer any questions regarding anime, seeing as how I've watched exactly four animes (the whole shows, not just four episodes).

I'm just amazed that Neonevik is still raging about something in this thread.  I don't know anything about the anime/LN he's talking about, but I mean, if you don't like it, don't watch it, I guess.  I'm probably missing the gist of the argument, but still...

not being pissed implies tacit agreement that the LN is okay

4maskwolf

  • Bay Watcher
  • 4mask always angle, do figure theirs!
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22434 on: May 05, 2015, 10:50:28 pm »

Oh hey somebody new posted in the thread.

Yeah, pretty much what the other people said is what anime is.  If you have any specific questions, I suppose you could ask those, but a general "what is anime" question is too broad.  And frankly, I'm not qualified to answer any questions regarding anime, seeing as how I've watched exactly four animes (the whole shows, not just four episodes).

I'm just amazed that Neonevik is still raging about something in this thread.  I don't know anything about the anime/LN he's talking about, but I mean, if you don't like it, don't watch it, I guess.  I'm probably missing the gist of the argument, but still...

not being pissed implies tacit agreement that the LN is okay
I'm confused as to whether he's dicussing a general trend in anime/manga/LN's or if he's discussing an isolated incident, because those require two different levels of response.

High tyrol

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22435 on: May 05, 2015, 10:51:05 pm »

Never heard of it, but the 1k+ pages intrigues me. Wuzzit?

1k pages of this thread I think...

Last Exile is on my list. I'll probably get around to it next decade sometime :/

But you can also use search in threads, to see if anyone has mentioned the show before.

Searching for "exile" in this thread shows that it has the Vector stamp of approval.
i personally rank last exile as the very best work of fiction i have experienced, although its sequel is nowhere  near as good as the first.
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22436 on: May 05, 2015, 11:27:05 pm »

I can see how someone that's not actually ran in to the real thing could be made uncomfortable by that particular scene, though.

Ok, I showed my friend, who has suffered from REAL abuse, this scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Bi3_3W9M8&feature=youtu.be&t=10m48s

He REALLY didn't find it funny... and when I asked him how realistic that was in terms of an actual abuse 1-10

He gave it a 10
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 11:30:58 pm by Neonivek »
Logged

UXLZ

  • Bay Watcher
  • God Eater
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22437 on: May 05, 2015, 11:31:53 pm »

Neon, I'm pretty sure Frumple was speaking from the LN perspective.
Logged
Ahhh~ She looked into your eyes,
And saw what laid beneath,
Don't try to save yourself,
The circle is complete.

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22438 on: May 05, 2015, 11:32:06 pm »

Neon, I'm pretty sure Frumple was speaking from the LN perspective.

Ahhhh okie :P

But why pick on me for not liking the anime again?

But I can ask actual abuse victims what they think of the LN.
Logged

UXLZ

  • Bay Watcher
  • God Eater
    • View Profile
Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22439 on: May 05, 2015, 11:34:27 pm »

What anime? That ZnT you guys are arguing about? I've literally never seen it before 'nor even heard of it before this point.

It probably would have been a better idea to show your friend the scene in the LN rather than the anime one, since Frumple was speaking specifically about how it was worded and stuff.
Logged
Ahhh~ She looked into your eyes,
And saw what laid beneath,
Don't try to save yourself,
The circle is complete.
Pages: 1 ... 1494 1495 [1496] 1497 1498 ... 2193