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[Flying Dice]

Yeah, it's the guy with god-like powers (flying, telekinesis, sees through walls, disintegration beam eyes, can make a 1000 megaton nuke out of literally a drop of water, literally can regen any lost limb in 1.667 seconds, and can raise the dead. and all the skills are "at will" and at long distances) who's hard done by, because he can't levitate a piece of wood along a floor and that one single thing just happens to be the magic school exam.

And he never faces off against people with comparable powers, I guess because the author thought that would make him less special. So it's literally superman clobbering mooks the whole time. You end up siding with the mooks because they're clearly the underdogs vs immortal mr-no-emotions.

Oh btw, in the end it turns out they put a limiter in him as a kid because he was too awesome. That was why he couldn't do that one thing with levitating the wood. The limiter comes off later and he goes even more insanely powered.

Waitwait. I'm already far too familiar with how terrible Mahouka is, but how the fuck does that make sense?

[Neonivek]

I think you need to stop taking stupid shit so personally in mediums you know to be infested with stupid shit. Right now I'm getting the mental image of a guy who regularly watches action movies while complaining about the physics in each one as though it was something new.

I think I should answer this properly

Uta no Prince Sama's first season, if I was being absolutely critical of it, was passable. At its heart it was about people finding their inner strength in many ways as their hearts were mended. Many of the characters were quite interesting and sometimes a bit deep. The songs were good, as far as musical animes go, and they weren't just songs they actually mean something to the person singing them. Even better when the anime throws a major plot turn the characters react to it naturally rather then in a contrived way. Sure it is still a harem anime, and it wears its dating sim on its sleeve, but it pretty much states early on "no real romance here". Sure it had its problems but it was a solid story with a satisfying ending.

That is the base level I assumed going into the second season. I assumed that the anime would at least retain the level of writing of the first season.

I didn't expect the quality to half.

The second season moves the writing from passible to deplorable... It continued a story that by all means was finished, concluded. Yet even I could see some merit in a second season, after all there is still some drama left in the characters and maybe the idol world has some challenges they weren't ready for, or heck maybe a great villain. Yet there really isn't anything to overcome, no obstacle in anyone's way... so they force the drama often changing details about a character or moving back their progression from the first season in order to give the show faux tension. As well the new character Cecil (who was in the first season but... he technically only appeared once) gets along so well with our main characters that he feels like a self-insert fanfiction character, and no they were NOT this friendly with anyone else season 1, and then proceed to alter his character in order to make him exactly like all the other characters with the grand discovery that "Ohh my gawd! he wants to be an idol" (I want to puke!). It also introduces a bunch of new characters who do nothing and have no importance who I swear are only there for toys or CDs or something.

I could go on but I wanted to say that for once my disdain for the way this anime is progressing isn't me simply taking garbage and then moaning about how smelly the garbage is. I actually had some reason to assume a shred of quality was going to be in this one.

There was an idea in the first season... but the second season is all schlock.

[i2amroy]

I mean, crown the guy God-King of the Universe. I'm reasonably sure there's nothing he cant do and no woman he cant get.

As I noted earlier if you look at Asuna as the main character (instead of Kirito) then this loses a lot of it's punch IMO, since the important fact at that point isn't that he's OP, it's that he's OP and still choses Asuna anyways. Still not the best trope to invoke, but in the light of a different genre it's a lot less harmful than it would be in what it first appears to be.

Though yeah, the second arc of season 1 was pretty bad, and honestly you could probably just skim/skip the majority of it without any real character development or plot loss.

@Neonivek/IronyOwl:
It seems to me a lot of the conflict here comes from IronyOwl taking your statement to mean anime in general (probably due to a similar conversation that was actually about anime in general) instead of being an exasperated comment about a single anime that you've been watching.

Because I think most of us here can sympathize with you about at least some show that we really liked up until they totally destroyed it, but I'd also agree that if you were watching anime as a whole for the sole reason of complaining about it (as a whole) then that would be kinda silly.

[Reelya]

Waitwait. I'm already far too familiar with how terrible Mahouka is, but how the fuck does that make sense?

I have no idea how it works, but there's 17 pages of condensed technobabble to justify everything in the series so it's obviously due to the transient oscillations of the Calabi–Yau manifold impacting on 5D space transforms relating to junction of the eidos and negaspace. See? You can't prove that it isn't due to that can you? Sadly this sort of dense technobabble far outweighs anything else in the series including plot or action. But one law is inescapable. Characters (mostly girls) start by discussing how awesome the "science" is, and this naturally segues into just talking about how awesome Gary Stu is. It's like a law of physics in that universe.

So the series is 100% self-consistent and never wrong, since the author constantly makes up incomprehensible technobabble to justify whatever just happened. And fans call it "world building". But all the explanations seemed made-up on the spot to me. I rarely heard the same technobabble twice, so I can't see how any of it fits into some sort of self-consistent "framework".

So the Gary Stu can just look at a squad of terrorists and their guns neatly dissasembles itself into parts. He can take apart machines just by looking at them without hurting anything organic right next to it, and without damaging the individual parts of the machine. But it only works with guns apparently. This skill to dissassemble mechanical devices by telekinesis does not help at all with the "move a small block of wood a few inches" problem.

[Neonivek]

The creator created a character where his weaknesses make less sense then his strengths. It is far less believable that he couldn't move a block of wood a few inches then it is him to have the ability to create a rainbow farting unicorn that cures cancer.

But I have no idea why the author felt the need to "unlock" the main character's powers. He was completely uninhibited before and in fact was far superior to other wizards in every capacity except that he was "an underdog because he wasn't as powerful".

[Hawkfrost]

I also tried watching Samurai Kings. But I just...cant...do it. I mean, the premise is so cool, they even took the historical Clan names and the Leaders even wear those fabolous headgear-armors. But then it get's to combat and it's just the final seasons of Dragonball, only with more weapons. I hate if the cop-out of animating actual combat by hiding everything behind smoke, light, dust or the ashes of sacrificed animaters. I want actual swordfights, dangit!

By any chance are you familiar with Dynasty Warriors?
Because Sengoku Basara is Capcom's knockoff Dynasty Warriors clone; if you wanted realistic fight scenes, that is the exact wrong show to watch for it.


On the subject, I don't think I can recall a single anime or Western TV show with actual swordfighting. Probably because the average person doesn't actually know what a real swordfight looks like, and instead they just make up shit that looks ridiculous.
Attacks that leave you wide open to counters and are risky as hell? Binding your sword against the enemy's so you can growl at him from four inches away despite the fact if either person tilted their blade even slightly the other person would topple? Doing grandiose spins that leave your back exposed? Aiming at the weapon instead of the person holding it? Damaging your blade edge by constantly smashing it against an opposing piece of hard steel? The magical ability to cut through plate armor with a two-pound thin bar of metal? Horrible footwork that leaves you unbalanced and extended? Not wearing a helmet? Not wearing any armor at all? Holding your hands forward while not wearing gauntlets or using a shield? Not using a shield properly? The list honestly goes on.
I want to see someone murder-strike a guy through the eye with a longsword crossguard at least once in my life.

tl;dr version: Movie swordfighting is as close to reality as WWE wrestling is to fist fighting.



The closest I can think of to a real fight in anime would be Seirei no Moribito.

[Reelya]

The creator created a character where his weaknesses make less sense then his strengths. It is far less believable that he couldn't move a block of wood a few inches then it is him to have the ability to create a rainbow farting unicorn that cures cancer.

But I have no idea why the author felt the need to "unlock" the main character's powers. He was completely uninhibited before and in fact was far superior to other wizards in every capacity except that he was "an underdog because he wasn't as powerful".

I'm thinking power-ups is what passes for character development in that authors mind. It doesn't matter how powerful you were before, you need "character development" which clearly means getting frequent power-ups.

The biggest problem is the story does not have ups and downs, and those "belly of the whale" moments, or moments when all seems lost for the hero. Other good-guy characters may be inconvenienced (but not actually killed) by the baddies, but this just sets the stage for our "hero" to come in and literally turn all the nasty mooks into hamburger patties. That's the most jarring thing for me. He's Dirty Harry, ruthlessly massacring villains, yet the villains just aren't that villanous (no-one ever dies from their attacks). It's like he ended up in the wrong series.

Debating the merits of shows like SAO, Zero no Tsukaima or Infinite Stratos feels like pedantic nit-picking next to Mahouka. It's amazing. You learn to appreciate the fine-crafting writing and balance of comedy and action in those other shows after sitting through Mahouka, because it's an example of someone who had no clue whatsoever on how to structure a story.

[Neonivek]

Not wearing any armor at all?

A lot more common then you would think. In fact a lot of your complaints are not EXACTLY uncommon even in real sword fighting.

In fact there are a few sword strikes in real sword fighting that does involve "grandiose spins".

---

The problem is that character 'development' pretty much all but demolishes the entire point of his character.

As for "Nitpicking" I dunno... I'll never forgive Zero for what it does.

[Flying Dice]

In regards to ZnT... do you also have an issue every other show that has slapstick humor in it? With the Three Stooges and Marx Brothers? Because if you're taking it at face value... that's what it is. It's a universe where hitting someone in a social setting does literally no lasting harm. You could make a point about the execution being distasteful or poorly conveyed, sure, but I think I've only ever seen you complain about slapstick in this one series.

That's the thing, is that you're treating a genre convention completely out of context; note the reactions of the characters in-story. Nobody else cares. Saito doesn't care; he doesn't even see it as mildly inconveniencing, because for better or for worse the series is essential a rom-com drama that makes heavy use of slapstick. The whole child abuse thing is entirely a construct in the imagination of certain readers, and has no support (obviously) from a Watsonian perspective -- see above, in-story nobody blinks an eye, even people who would if it were being played straight. Likewise, from a Doylist perspective, the authorial intent is obviously that it's slapstick comedy.

Sure, rant until the cows come how about how it's terrible humor, but don't try to cast your own preconceptions as fact. It's especially hypocritical to see this sort of thing from people who don't bother protesting the same genre convention at work in other series, other other genre conventions -- I have yet to see anyone on here talk about how there's clearly something wrong with people in Series X because they have giant balls of sweat forming on their heads, or that Onizuka is a terrible teacher who would have been shitcanned in real life, or that Training from Hell will just kill you if you try it, or that all mecha shows ever are unrealistically depicted trash because the mechs aren't collapsing under their own weight, or... &c.

If you dislike the device, that's fine. But don't pretend that the situation you're complaining about exists without any context and is equivalent to the same thing in real life.

[4maskwolf]

I also didnt like the constant switch of game (Introducing guns for example. Especially since Kirito defaults back to a sword right away anyway) and the fact that every girl that get's introduced just falls for Kirito in the time span of maybe 1 Episode.

Ehhhh... I don't really look at it that way with Sinon, though.  Perhaps I'm just that one weirdo, but I found her to be a far more compelling character than Kirito, and I don't interpret their interactions as being in any way indicative of her falling for him (well, maybe a little, but more of a low-level crush than the ridiculous "one-episode head-over-heels" thing that happened in early SAO).

Although I do agree, Kirito seriously needs to take power cut, he's way too OP.

That's actually why I liked Log Horizon: Even the "mary sue" character of that anime (the main character Shiro) has his moments, sometimes episodes-long, where he is uncertain as to what to do and doesn't have a clear way around the current challenge: and his primary badassery is planning and tactics.  Of course, he always finds a way in the end, but that's to be expected of anime in my experience and I really don't hold that against it.  The romance subplots are also more subdued than in SAO, but are still present and actually more compelling.

[Frumple]

Ehhhh... I don't really look at it that way with Sinon, though.  Perhaps I'm just that one weirdo, but I found her to be a far more compelling character than Kirito, and I don't interpret their interactions as being in any way indicative of her falling for him (well, maybe a little, but more of a low-level crush than the ridiculous "one-episode head-over-heels" thing that happened in early SAO).

Never touch the games, friend quadcovering. It's probably best you don't even read/watch any of the LPs.

[Neonivek]

In regards to ZnT... do you also have an issue every other show that has slapstick humor in it? With the Three Stooges and Marx Brothers? Because if you're taking it at face value

The three stooges do things to separate what they do from actual harm and abuse

ZnT however simulates physical abuse down to a T there is no cheeky moment that clues me into what is going on is anything but a realistic depiction of abuse. Of a boy screaming in mental anguish as someone who OWNS HIM whips him with a riding crop until he is bloody and crying... of an abuser taking out her insecurities and abusing her power in order to punish someone who really doesn't deserve it.

While the three stooges might hit someone over the head with a mallet, but they aren't going to go to the hospital for cranial injuries and respond to such treatment as "Oww" as opposed to "OHH THE PAIN WHY OHH GAWD WHY!!!".

As well most other shows try to balance it by putting the male in the "higher position" of "He could fight back if he wanted to" and it isn't really all that painful but not only can our male lead not fight back but he has been mind raped into loving his abuser no matter what... and even then they never get bloodied from it, they never have to mend their mental wounds from it. Inuyasha is a common example and even THAT anime tends to activate people's abuse centers.

ZnT would be a lot more obviously abuse if you simply changed the gender around. About a male abuser who gets picked on so he takes his slave girl and whips her with a riding crop listening to her cries and pleas as she bleeds onto the floor... But he doesn't stop he just whips her over and over again.

But EVEN THEN... the abuse would have been alright if they tried to frame this "clearly abuse' as clearly abuse. The fact that they frame it as something sexy or funny without actually making it sex or funny... is what makes me hate it so much.

I've already spoken about this topic at length though... about why ZnT is the only anime I genuinely hate.

I mean SURE... It never explores its concepts or good plot threads and Zero herself boarders on unlikable even if you eliminated the abuse... and they alter the main character's personality in order to make him "deserve" his punishments later in spite the fact that it is completely contrary to his earlier personality.

[Furtuka]

SQUEEEEEEEE

[Flying Dice]

While the three stooges might hit someone over the head with a mallet, but they aren't going to go to the hospital for cranial injuries and respond to such treatment as "Oww" as opposed to "OHH THE PAIN WHY OHH GAWD WHY!!!".

Almost all of the clips on youtube are shit, so I went back into the LNs and looked. You're completely projecting here.

"No way! My name is Louise de La Vallière! 'Zero' is just a nickname."
 
"A nickname, huh? I can understand why she's called 'Ardent,' but why are you 'Zero?'"
 
"You don't need to know," Louise answered uncomfortably.
 
"Is it your breasts?" Saito asked, glancing at Louise. Yup. Flat as a board.
 
Louise's hand flew out. He dodged it.
 
"Come back here!"
 
"Don't hit me!"
 
A slap?
 
That reminds me... This girl... Yesterday, even when everyone else flew away, she walked. And,
last night, when I grabbed her, she kicked me in the groin. 
If she really wanted to chastise me, wouldn't it be better to use magic instead of hitting or kicking
me? That would be more effective, and more mage-like. Why is that? Saito wondered. 

1. The way the scene is structured is clearly intended to be comedic -- it's a back-and forth conversation in which the three people present have been prodding at each other similarly for a minute or two; Saito finally pushes the wrong button, dodges a well-deserved slap, and runs off. This is where 90% of your abuse comes from: Saito being a two-timing pervert or an ass and then trying to avoid his comeuppance.

2. Note the reflection on last night -- again, the situation began because he prodded Louise in a sore spot and she overreacted. Notice how, rather than, as you suggest, going "OH WOE IS ME THIS GIRL THAT NOW OWNS ME IS ABUSING ME," he doesn't particularly care about getting kicked in the groin and is instead pondering what it means that she hit him rather than using magic.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Having finished tidying up, Louise and Saito headed to the dining hall for lunch. Along the way,
Saito made fun of Louise over and over. After all, it was Louise's fault that he'd had to do all that
manual labor just now. It was Saito who had carried over the new window glass. It was Saito
who had moved all the heavy desks. And of course, it was Saito who had wiped the soot blackened classroom clean with a cloth. All Louise had done was wipe down a few desks, and reluctantly at that.

I have to sleep on the floor. The food sucks. And on top of that, I have to wash underwear. (Not
that I've done it yet.)

With all that mistreatment from Louise, there was no way Saito could keep quiet about her newfound
weakness. He teased Louise like there was no tomorrow.


"'Louise the Zero.' Now I get it~ That's just perfect~ Rate of success is zero. But a noble despite
that... wonderful!" 

Louise didn't say a word, which only roused Saito further. 

"Transmutation! Ah! Kaboom! Transmutation! Ah! Kaboom! Oh, I screwed up! Only 'the Zero'
screws this up!" 

Saito danced circles around Louise like this, raising his arms every time he said "kaboom,"
mimicking an explosion. It was quite a detailed performance.
 
"Mistress Louise. This humble familiar has made a song for you." 
Saito said, bowing his head respectfully. Of course, it was an empty gesture, a complete mockery. 
Louise's eyebrow was twitching furiously. She was on the verge of blowing her top, but Saito
was too absorbed in his excitement to notice that.
 
"Why don't you go ahead and sing it?" 

"'Lou-Lou-Louise is such a hopeless case~ A magician that can't even use magic! But that's all
right! Because she's a girl...'" 

Saito held his stomach as he burst into laughter. 
"Bwahahaha!!" 

He was laughing at his own joke. Perhaps he was just as hopeless. 
 
* * *

When they arrived at the dining hall, Saito pulled out a chair for Louise.
 
"Just remember, my lady. Don't cast any spells on the food. Just imagine the mess if it
exploded." 

Louise took the seat wordlessly. Saito was feeling thoroughly satisfied, having got one back on
the rude and arrogant Louise with his putdowns. Even the usual excuse for a meal didn't bother
him as much. 

While the meager soup and bread he got served was still painful to behold, it was a pretty even
trade-off for getting to laugh so much earlier. 

"Right then, Founder someone-or-another. Your Highness the Queen. Thanks a bunch for the
crappy food. Itadakimasu." 

As he went to eat, the plate was snatched away. 

"What are you doing?!" 

"Th-th-th..." 

"'Th-th-th'?" 

Louise's shoulders shook angrily, as did her voice. Somehow, she'd managed to reign in her
overflowing fury until they'd arrived at the dining table. Probably so that she could bestow an
appropriate punishment. 

"Th-th-th-this familiar, how dare it say s-s-s-such things to its m-m-m-master?" 

Saito realized he'd gone too far. 

"I'm sorry! I won't say any more, so give me back my food!" 

"No! Absolu~~tely not!" 

Louise screamed, twisting her cute face in rage. 

"One meal cut for every time you've said 'Zero!' And that's final! No exceptions!"

Are you getting the picture yet? Maybe you don't agree with the author's sense of humor, but this is the pattern of how it plays out. Saito acts like a dick, pushes all of the glaring red buttons labelled "Louise's Insecurities" with great glee, and then she, predictably, blows up, punishing him in ways which are trivial and momentary. Literally less than half a page later, he's getting food from the kitchens, and better than he had before. When she hits or explodes him, it literally doesn't last past the end of the "joke".

As well most other shows try to balance it by putting the male in the "higher position" of "He could fight back if he wanted to" and it isn't really all that painful but not only can our male lead not fight back but he has been mind raped into loving his abuser no matter what... and even then they never get bloodied from it, they never have to mend their mental wounds from it. Inuyasha is a common example and even THAT anime tends to activate people's abuse centers.

ZnT would be a lot more obviously abuse if you simply changed the gender around. About a male abuser who gets picked on so he takes his slave girl and whips her with a riding crop listening to her cries and pleas as she bleeds onto the floor... But he doesn't stop he just whips her over and over again.

But EVEN THEN... the abuse would have been alright if they tried to frame this "clearly abuse' as clearly abuse. The fact that they frame it as something sexy or funny without actually making it sex or funny... is what makes me hate it so much.

I've already spoken about this topic at length though... about why ZnT is the only anime I genuinely hate.

I mean SURE... It never explores its concepts or good plot threads and Zero herself boarders on unlikable even if you eliminated the abuse... and they alter the main character's personality in order to make him "deserve" his punishments later in spite the fact that it is completely contrary to his earlier personality.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. The whole "abuse" thing is overplayed projection. It's people getting out of a series what they put in. You tried to wave it off, but what you're doing is exactly like someone watching this and concluding that these two horrible thugs are "abusing" the trust of their friend by forcing him to do something he's afraid of, torturing him, and then the whole situation devolves into a mutual orgy of violence.

Are you honestly trying to tell me that this or this are, either intentionally or unintentionally, portrayals of one person abusing another in a remotely realistic manner? Incidentally, that "whipping" that you like to harp on about? That's a single incident, with a riding crop, which existed for the sole purpose of setting up a crude joke when someone walks in on them the next morning and they're on the floor, half-naked, with Louise straddling Saito.

I'm not saying that it's refined or even particularly funny, but you're only going to see abuse if you look for it. It's near midnight and I've got a final at 8:00am tomorrow, so unfortunately I can't pander to your preconceptions any more tonight. I'd suggest that rather than relying on your imagination you go back and read the source material. Find me a single instance where Louise blows up at Saito for something that genuinely isn't his fault, and find me one where she hurts him in a way that is ever mentioned with any sort of significance past the joke or slapstick sequence it took place in.

If you come back with "well I don't have the LNs, but I watched the anime spinoff a couple years ago and I think I remember..." I'm not going to dignify that with anything.

[Frumple]

... am faintly curious now if the LNs actually mention anything about the gandalfr rune (the familiar brandings in general, really) actually screwing with the mind. So far as I was aware, the only mention of that comes from fanon.