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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3122197 times)

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22215 on: April 25, 2015, 11:15:06 pm »

Ok I have to admit

I am watching the Korean's take on Liars game... I actually am kind of fascinated at another culture's attempt at this story.

What do you expect the answer to be? Regardless of medium, Naruto is one of the poster children for series in which female characters are systematically trivialized and marginalized.

I don't know I just REALLY don't see the point in it.

If you make an interesting character with actual interests and abilities why go out of your way to marginalize them?

It isn't like Erza from Fairytale where she is just too powerful so they have to take her out somehow.

I was just hoping there was some sort of explanation for why one of my favorite characters from Naruto suddenly was infected with the suck virus.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 11:17:09 pm by Neonivek »
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IronyOwl

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22216 on: April 25, 2015, 11:28:02 pm »

I don't know I just REALLY don't see the point in it.

If you make an interesting character with actual interests and abilities why go out of your way to marginalize them?
Well, do you have a suspicion here? Why do you think they did/do it?


I was just hoping there was some sort of explanation for why one of my favorite characters from Naruto suddenly was infected with the suck virus.
Beyond "it's Naruto" and "it's an anime series probably-not-canon movie," you mean?
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Frumple

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22217 on: April 25, 2015, 11:29:59 pm »

... yeah, most of the terrible stuff about naruto I just chalk up to kishi being a kinda' terrible writer, personally.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22218 on: April 25, 2015, 11:41:10 pm »

Quote
Well, do you have a suspicion here? Why do you think they did/do it?

Beyond marketing, giving women a character to latch onto.

Usually it is simply to make the female character more appealing to the reader. Someone who is strong and capable... BUUUUUT because you are meant to insert yourself into our hero, those very same qualities that make her competent gets in the way of our reader being the hero to save her. So her abilities are subjugated.

As well usually the female character has more of a connection to the plot (there are obvious exceptions) because they want our male lead to be mostly an outsider so he learns things as we do. Thus often the female lead serves as the direct connection. Since our hero needs to "save her" he is usually the one who has to resolve her own plot.

But I think it just boils down to the creator just being uninterested in writing a good female character. Thus all he can muster is a good backstory and maybe a few good initial scenes and then he just basically drools over his ultra-bland self-insert main character.

---

It is sad that typical Shonen shares a LOT in common with bad young adult books.

It is actually what helped me a LOT with understanding why animes I keep getting interested in end up being bad animes. The idea of setting up interesting plot ideas just to not follow through with them because you want to do something else (usually tepid romance) is quite universal.

So everytime I see an interesting plot synopsis in an anime I know why they won't follow through with it... because they don't care they are just trying to do something else entirely... usually boring action schlock.

---

Ok Korean Liar game is quite different. They are more serious minded and WOW does Korean Nao lie a lot more... But so far so good.

I think I need a Korean to explain a few things to me since some of the changes feel like they exist because of cultural differences. For example the Liar game is more of a gameshow in this. Which isn't a bad idea, in fact I consider it a fair way to conceive the game, I just wonder if Korea has a history with gameshows that might help give this vision in a more cultural context.

The weirdest change, but once again a fair one. Is that to be in Liar game you apparently have to be a good person (though the host could have been lying).
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 12:11:21 am by Neonivek »
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22219 on: April 26, 2015, 12:19:30 am »

Not following through with premises. That made me just think of Highschool DxD (not recommending anyone start this unless you want excessive boobage) which is on it's third season right now. It was never a great series, but it has actually devolved in plot.

I recall back in season one it was stated that doing contracts with humans was the most important thing for the devils to do, and that was how devils rose in power. And Issei did these contracts for a while, interspersed with harem stuff and battles.

But somewhere along the line the writer completely forgot about the summoning / contract element altogether, which was supposed to be the central focus of the devil organization and it just went fully harem all the time, with Issei going super-saiyan regardless of doing contracts. So the "contracts with humans" stuff is basically redacted, with ever-more-powerful demons introduced in escalating battles, none of whom ever bother with it. Maybe it can be rationalized that Issei has a special power ("hero has a special power" isn't a spoiler really is it?) so he is now excluded from doing contracts. But there are a number of rookie devils, and none of them ever do contracts, at least as mentioned in the plot.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 12:25:53 am by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22220 on: April 26, 2015, 12:23:33 am »

Ok well right now I am reading through a young adult novel called Tiger's Curse.

It is about a 300 year old prince who is cursed into becoming a Tiger and this girl named Kelsey and their adventures through india.

Yet what the author ACTUALLY wants is a tepid Twilight-esk romance and thus will throw away and relax any element of the tiger plot she doesn't like... to the extent that the entire premise becomes moot basically halfway through the first book.

My best description of reading the book is that it is like getting onto this rollercoaster and seeing all the loops ahead only to find that the track instead detours to the old abandoned tunnel of love but you can still see the original track to the side wishing you were there instead... While also seeing the perfectly functional tunnel of love in the distance so you know how truly run down this one is.

Anime is the same way. It might have a really interesting premise but it will throw away any of that premise, or relax it, that interferes with what the author wants to do.

So have a very interesting female character? Well sorry but keeping her relevant would interfere with our big damn hero.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 12:25:21 am by Neonivek »
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22221 on: April 26, 2015, 12:29:50 am »

I hear you on throwing away the premise because you wanted to do something else. Highschool DxD is a good example. The "devil contracts" thing is the unique premise. You can't have the characters being summoned by magic circles without them being devils as a core plot premise. But the writer clearly wanted to write a straight-up harem comedy with occasional super-power battles. At this stage they could be aliens, robot girls, catgirls, elves or pretty much any type of entity living with the boy, because the one plot element that is specific to the concept of "devils" has been removed. Originally, the other characters didn't even live with the boy, but around the same time that the contracts thing was removed, all the girls eventually moved into his house for one reason or another. So it's clearly a case of rejigging the series deliberately into a more cliched harem so he could do all the typical scenes like accidentally walking into the bathroom and stuff.

Another harem example is Infinite Stratos, where the premise is that they're training to use this flying gear at a special school. Now, it's kind of unclear what the purpose of the training is. They don't really show many official tournaments, and it's stated that they aren't aimed for military use. So, are they athletes or military cadets or what? The series doesn't really explain this much beyond "they train at a school to use cool-looking flying gear". Basically that seems to be as far as the writer thought this one out. But at least they show some tournaments and training battles in season 1. Season 2, pretty much throws out even this excuse for a premise, and can't even "harem" right. All the girls characters blend together, and most eps revolve around all 5-6 girls trying to get the heros attention over a single factor (like who can make the best bento). The flying gear becomes just a gimmick for comedic effect. Although they weave in a subplot in about badguys with flying gear through the season, it is disjointed and feels like an afterthought to the harem comedy. It's the minimal token effort to justify that this is still Infinite Stratos.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 12:55:56 am by Reelya »
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Hawkfrost

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22222 on: April 26, 2015, 11:06:23 am »

Sometimes I feel like I've watched bad anime, and then I listen to you guys talk and I realize how much deeper that mire sinks. So, thanks.
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Furtuka

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22223 on: April 26, 2015, 03:03:28 pm »

ummm I think Linebarrels of Iron finished a little while ago?
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BlitzDungeoneer

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22224 on: April 26, 2015, 03:09:04 pm »

Soul Eater finished ages ago too, I think.
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NullForceOmega

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22225 on: April 26, 2015, 03:09:47 pm »

There are actually LOTS of finished Manga/anime, but you might have to do some digging to reach them.  If you stick to the things that are new/popular you will find almost nothing, Manga-ka are typically locked into unforgiving contracts with strict deadlines and minimal control over when the story gets to 'end' and so many just trail off without resolution, or end very abruptly due to decreasing popularity.  But if you look at the big-name writers you'll find many 'complete' stories (lots of these have kinda disappointing endings tho').
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Leafsnail

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22226 on: April 26, 2015, 03:23:00 pm »

Full Metal Alchemist is like the only one I can think of that isn't super old.
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Kansa

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22227 on: April 26, 2015, 03:42:41 pm »

Pandora Hearts just finished up recently and it's probably one of my favourite manga.
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Kobold Troubadour

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22228 on: April 26, 2015, 04:44:36 pm »

Kekkai Sensen - Blood Blockade Battlefront continues to be fun & classy each episode. ED is always good to not skip.

is there even such thing as finished manga

will i ever start reading something that is actually complete
Try Hoshi no Samidare (aka The Lucifer and Biscuit Hammer). Good action, comedy & a very satisfying ending to boot.
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=10866

GTO Great Teacher Onizuka for the laughs is also a fine choice.
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=185

The manwha Shin Angyo Onshi is also done. Awesome artworks & nice battles.
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=164

For a fun & nifty shoujo wiht lots of funny moments too, try Kare Kano or Fruits Basket.
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Frumple

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #22229 on: April 26, 2015, 05:00:49 pm »

is there even such thing as finished manga

will i ever start reading something that is actually complete
yes, plenty

even some that are fairly recent!

Most, ah, places, have like a completed manga filter? That works. Is there. shows done stuff

good times!
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