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[aenri]

Kill la Kill will either be extremely disappointing as a bizarrely over-the-top display of fanservice at every available opportunity, or inspiring as a beautiful metaphor for puberty and coming to grips with one's body in spite of a world that constantly seeks to objectify people.

Or great action show with plot^TM and nice soundrack.

[Frumple]

Or great action show with plot^TM and nice soundrack.

... was that intentional, or...?

[i2amroy]

I'd throw out Fate/Zero since Saber actually gets characterization in that one (though said characterization might make you not like her, it doesn't stop it from being characterization). I'd throw out the new Fate/Stay Night: UBW one too, but it's kinda borderline IMO. It's definitely got some female characters that can kick ass and take names (both good and bad), but it's still rather Shriou focused in terms of characterization since he is the protagonist after all. Maybe we'll see more development in the second season.

There's also A Certain Scientific Railgun (Toaru Kagaku no Rērugan). Female characters all over and we've got definite character depth there. Our main character that the Index series revolves around is literally demoted to a near shout-out type character, excepting the one time their paths truly cross story-wise.

[Neonivek]

Tenchi Muyo apparently... But it does have a male main character.

You know, in spite of it being the grandaddy of harem shows, I could buy this argument.

It has a lot to do with Tenchi's overall lack of importance and lack of over dominating masculine traits... along with how the story is more about the female cast who are each great characters in their own right without the show picking or choosing which one is considered more valid. As well as the fact that ultimately they are the ones active the relationship rather then the other way around.

Harem shows are bad, but mostly because they are executed poorly. There are good ones and a Harem anime is at its best when it feels like a close examination of a bunch of people's characters and how they act with each other, as well when the "Who will they chose?" aspect is downplayed.

I've watched three reverse harems (I don't like that term but whatever that is the technical term), and of all three... the romance was usually the worst part.

Though if I have to give anime one credit... It can do "The One Guy in a Female Run Show" infinitely times better then Western animation can... Well if we ignore harems.

I didn't know this at first but I started to sort of pay attention to it after a while.

[Reelya]

Since there is a lot of talk about Women and Anime and I complain here a LOT about just the worst instances of female depiction in anime (Seriously Prince Of Tennis?)

Here is instead a list of anime which shouldn't disappoint too much
-Revolutionary Girl Utena
-Princess Tutu: Honestly everyone should watch this anime at least once.
-Sailormoon: Arguably, I've heard it described both ways... and even in my own experience this show later hovers between being really good and bad...
-Magic Knight Rayearth: Apperantly.
-Full Moon Wo Sagashite

Feminist anime watchers compiled this list. Not all of them have a female MC, and some do have fanservice (these are the more chilled out feminist variety) but they've decided all of them have some positive depictions of women:

http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=39125

Some ones I've seen from the list:

Aoi Hana
Chihayafuru
Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun
Hanasaku Iroha
Hourou Musuko
Kimi ni Todoke
Kuragehime
Mouretsu Pirates
Skip Beat!
Taishou Yakyuu Musume

[Lord Shonus]

Watched through Deadman Wonderland (2011) over the weekend, and I have to say I'm getting really sick of unfinished anime. The series covers less than half of the manga, according to some research (this doesn't seem like the kind of work I'd like reading as manga), and there's no known plans to adapt the rest as far as I can tell. This is especially annoying as the show makes no attempt to act finished by slapping on a new-made story arc (the way Full Metal Alchemist did) or by disguising the end of what they had to work with as an actual end (Trigun style). All of the little hints as to what is actually going on are fully intact, and the "ending" of the show is very obviously not an ending point.

[Culise]

Since there is a lot of talk about Women and Anime and I complain here a LOT about just the worst instances of female depiction in anime (Seriously Prince Of Tennis?)

Here is instead a list of anime which shouldn't disappoint too much
-Revolutionary Girl Utena
-Princess Tutu: Honestly everyone should watch this anime at least once.
-Sailormoon: Arguably, I've heard it described both ways... and even in my own experience this show later hovers between being really good and bad...
-Magic Knight Rayearth: Apperantly.
-Full Moon Wo Sagashite

Feminist anime watchers compiled this list. Not all of them have a female MC, and some do have fanservice (these are the more chilled out feminist variety) but they've decided all of them have some positive depictions of women:

http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=39125

Some ones I've seen from the list:

Aoi Hana
Chihayafuru
Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun
Hanasaku Iroha
Hourou Musuko
Kimi ni Todoke
Kuragehime
Mouretsu Pirates
Skip Beat!
Taishou Yakyuu Musume

Hmmm, in addition to Reelya's selections, which I whole-heartedly endorse on the grounds that I like the five on there that I've seen (I will always recommend Kuragehime right up there with Princess Tutu and Arina's works) and can extrapolate to the rest from there, I can also recommend Rose of Versailles and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (after all, it's Studio Ghibli; it's also what helped get me into anime originally) from the linked anime list.  I personally liked Kaleido Star, but I think it's a bit more divisive.  On their manga side, I liked Emma and Gokusen (...alright, laugh if you must). 

[Neonivek]

Well I was more referring to animes with strong female characters, preferably protagonists but ones where the female character gets a LOT of screen time, who you can become invested in who are not exploited for their gender or looks, nor is your investment thrown away as the show either forgets their plot or has someone else solve it.

Mind you... Yeah it can be hard to determine what it is...
Because Fruit Baskets counts in my opinion... But that is because to me her strength is in her emotional maturity... and while she is passive that is because her role is to be herself, and the series never takes her reluctance to put anything on anyone as a "good thing".

While Full Moon Wo Sagashite's Meroko is basically in a very stripperific outfit... but she is framed so innocently that I never got a sexual vibe from her. So it count as well. Albeit one where the main character lacks agency (but then again, that is the point)

But I don't really want to try to qualify these as Feminist approved (though I am sure the list is accurate mind you, it just isn't my qualifier here). Mostly because everyone has a different idea of what that is... and with Sailormoon I have seen it interpreted both ways.

Just whether your investment in these characters is rewarded by the anime without excessive exploitation.

---

Also I am adding Fruit Basket to the list.

[Reelya]

That pretty much sums up all the ones I listed. What I said was not all the ones they listed have female protagonists. Though all the ones I shortlisted do in fact have female MCs who get most of the focus. Except for Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun, which is basically a parody of all the shoujo tropes but with genders flipped.

[Flying Dice]

Since there is a lot of talk about Women and Anime and I complain here a LOT about just the worst instances of female depiction in anime (Seriously Prince Of Tennis?)

Here is instead a list of anime which shouldn't disappoint too much
-Revolutionary Girl Utena
-Princess Tutu: Honestly everyone should watch this anime at least once.
-Sailormoon: Arguably, I've heard it described both ways... and even in my own experience this show later hovers between being really good and bad...
-Magic Knight Rayearth: Apperantly.
-Full Moon Wo Sagashite

Feminist anime watchers compiled this list. Not all of them have a female MC, and some do have fanservice (these are the more chilled out feminist variety) but they've decided all of them have some positive depictions of women:

http://myanimelist.net/clubs.php?cid=39125

Some ones I've seen from the list:

Aoi Hana
Chihayafuru
Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun
Hanasaku Iroha
Hourou Musuko
Kimi ni Todoke
Kuragehime
Mouretsu Pirates
Skip Beat!
Taishou Yakyuu Musume

Man, Mouretsu Pirates... I went into that with so much hope, liked most of the characters, but was then bitterly disappointed by it being basically another high school drama set in a plot-driven improbably pirate themepark political construct. Pretty much everything was at least decent, but between my SoD being broken and the fact that I'd been so looking forward to it playing the concept straight, I couldn't bear to keep watching.

I gotta ask, does it ever grow the beard? That alone would probably motivate me to finish it.

[Hawkfrost]

I would like to phrase that just because a female kicks the asses of males doesn't necessarily make her a good female character.
It's more of a question of WHY does she do this; Is it for her own ideals/plans/reasons, or is it to further the plans of a man? Does every thought and action she does relate to a man? Does she have actual depth and motivation? You then combine that with deciding if women are put on the same plane as men in that work of fiction, if they are able to achieve or do the same degree of things.

It's why I disliked Asuka so much in Evangelion. Sure, she's tons better than Shinji and has to save his ass consistently, but she NEVER SHUTS THE FUCK UP about him.
Every two words out of her mouth is either about how b-b-baka Shinji-kun is, or what she can do to make him like her, or how she needs to compete with him, ect.


On the topic of shows with good female characters:

Seirei no Moribito
Spice and Wolf
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex
Ergo Proxy
.hack//Sign
Planetes
Humanity Has Declined

Arguable:
Black Lagoon
Hellsing
Baccano!
Angel Beats!


(What is with Japan and ending the name of shows with "!" ?)

[DreamCarver]

I stayed up until 2AM last night to catch some quality fansubs for Yuri Kuma Arashi. My brain melted as a result.

I have no idea what the scriptwriter, director, or characters are thinking, but I think I like it. Haven't seen Mawaru Penguindrum or Utena (which a lot of those discussing it keep referencing as past works of Ikuhara), but after the lesbian-bear acid trip I had the privilege to embark on at 3 in the morning, there seems to be no other option but consume all other works this man has made. Later.

The show is pretty alright. I'll stick with it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That ED though: http://a.pomf.se/pxaixo.webm

[Execute/Dumbo.exe]

Edit: Pressed the wrong button a hahahahaa.

[Culise]

Man, Mouretsu Pirates... I went into that with so much hope, liked most of the characters, but was then bitterly disappointed by it being basically another high school drama set in a plot-driven improbably pirate themepark political construct. Pretty much everything was at least decent, but between my SoD being broken and the fact that I'd been so looking forward to it playing the concept straight, I couldn't bear to keep watching.

I gotta ask, does it ever grow the beard? That alone would probably motivate me to finish it.

Unfortunately, I don't think it ever really did, in my opinion.  I have no idea if the light novels go further, but the anime really didn't feel like it ever made it beyond that start, though it seemed to hint at something here and there.  It was decent enough for me to say I liked it, but like other shows that I would classify along that particular category of "like" (given the genre being discussed, Starship Operators - somewhat hard sci-fi marred by...I'll be generous and call it "unusual" camera direction when females happened to be on the screen - and Starship Girl Yamamoto Yohko spring immediately to mind), I'd say I likely wouldn't watch it twice.  That, when I'm not at all shy of watching shows I like to a greater degree repeatedly. 

[Neonivek]

I would like to phrase that just because a female kicks the asses of males doesn't necessarily make her a good female character.
It's more of a question of WHY does she do this; Is it for her own ideals/plans/reasons, or is it to further the plans of a man? Does every thought and action she does relate to a man? Does she have actual depth and motivation? You then combine that with deciding if women are put on the same plane as men in that work of fiction, if they are able to achieve or do the same degree of things.

Ohh for sure.

Another important aspect to think about is who resolves her plot.

The most annoying aspect to female characters in my opinion is they actually often have a very complex backstory and a lot of drive to actually resolve their problems, training for months maybe years for this one goal. Yet it almost always seems to fall to a male character to resolve it for them.

Sometimes, this is ok... but it is something to think about.

The OTHER is the female character will often have their plot thrown out. Yakate Japan for example has a Female lead who is basically the second main character and later on they joke about how unimportant she has become in the series in spite being pretty much the entire reason these events are happening. She has been shown to be one of the best bakers in the show and yet bakes in an official competition exactly once in the entire series.

A non-anime example is Astrid from How To Train your dragon... Who wanted to become a strong and powerful Warrior but who was shown up by Hiccup who was essentially cheating. Resulting in her ultimate scene where she! was completely unhelpful and needed to be saved by Hiccup...

But don't worry there was a sequel where she! was completely unhelpful and needed to be saved by Hiccup.

Wow Astrid... Just... don't have motivations anymore they aren't for you apparently.