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[Sinistar]

And he makes it really, really obvious.

Ah yes, the classic "naked people floating in space" era of Gundam.

Oh crap, I nearly forgot about that. That is, my brain pushed kicked it in the darkest, dustiest corners of my skull but could never kill it. So retarded.

What, you didn't even make it to this scene? Mind you, that's from the second season.

My reaction - this is absurdly funny because of how stupid it is. It's almost a self-parody? I mean, what's up with that up-beat piano tune and silly-faces-and-rape-eyes that Illya or whos that is making?

[Leafsnail]

Ultimately a knight should not betray their master.  She frequently goes against Shirou's instructions, but actually killing him would be unconscionable (well, outside of dead ends anyway).

Their ideals are relatively compatible too.

[Sergarr]

Spoiler: Saber (click to show/hide)

I've always been baffled at how the supposed king of England, rules of countless knights and the Round Table, has zero commands skills and allows herself to be controlled by a 17 year old Shirou. I'd expect the King Arthur to be more commanding and inspiring, rather than just being a "stab stab slash"-type

Eh, there's plenty of potential explanations for that. The obvious one is that it just doesn't come up in the scope of the series -- Saber seems to strongly be a more "lead by example" (the example, largely, being wide scale unstoppable mass slaughter) than... posing and speeches and similar such silliness. Lacking a situation where there's major geopolitical shenanigans (and, iirc, the series actually pretty strongly insinuates that Saber was kinda' terrible at that sort of thing -- great at inspiring loyalty in a select few, less great at managing a nation), she has no need for such things anyway and it just... doesn't happen.

To boot, Saber's working with something like 3-4 other people (most of them, y'know, basically civilians) at once, at the most, and is completely lacking in what would be her normal supporting infrastructure. It's entirely possible she kicks several kinds of inspirational ass when she's got her full field command on hand, but I don't think we ever see anything along those lines.

Also: She's totally got B class charisma (And remember, something like E class charisma would have put her on par with normal maximal human capability). Which basically means that the only reason we don't see her diplomance the surrounding nations into her thrall is that Nasu she didn't want to write that story.

Though something like rejiggering the conflict into something like a modern day Game of Thrones might be interesting, if it weren't for the fact that

Spoiler: Maybe a minor spoiler? (click to show/hide)

the Clocktower would probably fuckmurder every single one of them if they tried to pull overt geopolitical shenanigans while involving magecraft.

Point the second could be

Spoiler: I guess maybe spoiler? (click to show/hide)

the grail fucking with her head -- it shoves japanese and a number of modern skills into her skull, and iirc there's a certain degree of insinuation that the same process gives all the servants something of a nudge towards playing along with the war. Plus she's under the threat of the command seals, which is pretty limiting on her actions.

Her working with shirou is pretty easy to explain. Dude's got better info, is the only thing keeping her around for very long, and is generally working towards the exact same goal she is. No real reasons to clash all that hard, and it's not like they're entirely without interpersonal conflict. Plus the two of them just happen to get along pretty well. * Frumple performs the eyebrow waggle of not-so-vague innuendo. *

... mitigating circumstances, basically. A whole heaping pile of mitigating circumstances.

The problem is that, for example, Lancer is an arrogant bastard who doesn't look like he likes to serve other people. And he's just a hero, not a *spoiler*. Archer is in a dimension of his own in terms of snarkiness. And others are more or less like that, with an exception of... hold on a minute.

Spoiler: startling revelation (click to show/hide)

I think I can see the pattern...

All Servants who act obediently and are not insane are females!

Holy shit.

[i2amroy]

Spoiler: startling revelation (click to show/hide)

I think I can see the pattern...
All Servants who act obediently and are not insane are females!
Holy shit.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Maybe that's why he was saying he wasn't good at strong female roles! *waggles eyebrows*

But seriously, while that meets the general trend I'd say there are a few exceptions. Assassin, for example (both the real one and caster's corrupted version, follows orders rather well without showing insanity (though at least one of them in Fate/Zero is female, so eh). Diarmuid (Lancer) in Fate/Zero also serves perfectly and without insanity, his only downfall comes from his own legend betraying him.

[Frumple]

The problem is that, for example, Lancer is an arrogant bastard who doesn't look like he likes to serve other people. And he's just a hero, not a *spoiler*. Archer is in a dimension of his own in terms of snarkiness. And others are more or less like that, with an exception of... hold on a minute.

Doggy lancer (I'm not terribly familiar with the rest of them, actually) honestly just wants a fight, iirc, and doesn't much give a damn about anything else. While he'd definitely rather be running around kicking stabbing stuff in the face, the whole prana-maintenance means he's fairly willing to go along so long as he gets a fight sooner or later. That he listens at all is likely due to either the command seals hanging over his head, said maintenence, or, well... other influence, which I would kinda' expect given the situation.

Spoiler: Identity spoiler, I guess (click to show/hide)

The Hound is also not exactly what you'd call a traditionally heroic figure. Like, at all.

Similarly, normal Archer, is, well

Spoiler: still spoiler, yes (click to show/hide)

not really a heroic spirit at all, and has a very different goal from most of the other participants, as well as being from the most independent class.

Counterpoints from the mainline, you've got both Berserker and Assassin who are pretty much in line without trouble ('zerker flips out in a fight, but that's mostly a class thing -- dude's fairly chill outside of it), and Rider who listens pretty closely despite kinda' loathing her main master

Spoiler: Yet another spoiler (click to show/hide)

and being an anti-hero

. Given that most of the folks involved

Spoiler: Spoilers, whee (click to show/hide)

are just copies of the actual heroic spirit

I'd say it actually makes sense the system involved in the war is doing some subliminal nudging towards obedience, or at least cooperation. Most of the possible exceptions are either exceptions (Saber,

Spoiler: so many spoilers ;_; (click to show/hide)

EMIYA

) or one of the classes that are capable of significant independent action (i.e. archer, which have it as a class feature, or caster, which are the most likely to be able to short-circuit the grail system). Most of the other ones (which make up a majority) are... fairly tame.

Least that's how I've seen it, anyway.

[Neyvn]

Watching "K-on" for the first time today...
Why do these kinda Anime/Manga crack me up...

[Leafsnail]

Are you seriously suggesting that Caster behaves obediently?

I don't think Saber does either really, I can think of several occasions where she majorly goes against Shirou.

[Sergarr]

Are you seriously suggesting that Caster behaves obediently?

I don't think Saber does either really, I can think of several occasions where she majorly goes against Shirou.

I don't remember that. Can you point out where Saber has done that?

[Frumple]

Are you seriously suggesting that Caster behaves obediently?

I certainly wasn't. Even though she does kinda' chill after getting the deadly assassin snugglebuddy, the casters in general were something I explicitly noted as being likely to go off the rails. Which... as far as I can remember,* most of servants that go strongly AWOL are either Archers, Casters, or significant system errors. Otherwise they seem relatively likely to toe their master's line, given the option.

Whether that's due to the command seals, personal inclination, or other reasons, it's hard to say. But as noted, I could definitely see the grail screwing with the heroic spirit's head, or at the very least making sure they're matched with a servant that's compatible with them.

*And my memory can definitely be buggered, here -- I don't have terrible much exposure to the non-fate/stay night line, and even that not through the actual VNs. Mostly the anime, manga, copious amounts of fanfiction, and stumbling across a vaguely offputting amount of nasuverse discussions.

[ToonyMan]

Are you seriously suggesting that Caster behaves obediently?
I don't think Saber does either really, I can think of several occasions where she majorly goes against Shirou.

I don't remember that. Can you point out where Saber has done that?

Spoiler: pretty early on in Fate route (click to show/hide)

Saber - "Shirou we should attack the temple."
Shirou - "No I don't think that's a good idea."
Saber - *sneaks out at night and attacks the temple anyway*

I think that's what happens, I haven't read it in over three years. That's just the first example that pops in my head.

[Boksi]

Just finished watching the first two episodes of Ore Twintail Ni Narimasu!/Gonna be the Twin-Tail! It's a show about a guy who loves twintails who turns into a magical girl in order to stop alien invaders from draining humanity of its "Twin-Tail Attribute", or love towards twintails. It's not a particularly serious show, as you may have guessed. Anyway it's got some pretty funny moments, and oddly enough, the twintailed tsundere childhood friend is actually done somewhat well.

[Furtuka]

Spoiler: G-Reconguista (click to show/hide)

And the episode quality continues to climb, as does Klim Nick's awesomeness. So did Dellensen's for that matter. That Chesto XD. The Caitsith had a pretty good showing too, and we got to learn a bit more on Bellri's perspective of everything that's going on. The fight scene today was beautiful in a old fashioned sort of way, and its interesting how they're using Turn A style beam sabers. How ominous...      that thing from space better not be the Turn-X

However that part where Bellri spontaneously melted a bunch of rifles with a weird looking forcefield by striking a pose and that thing he shouted was very bizarre (he also said it in the first episode when Aida pulled out the beam saber) and I really hope that gets explained in the next couple episodes. Or at least elaborated on.

Also the Hyper Hammer flashed up on screen for a second when they were looking at the G-Self's schematics and that is great.

[Leafsnail]

Are you seriously suggesting that Caster behaves obediently?
I don't think Saber does either really, I can think of several occasions where she majorly goes against Shirou.

I don't remember that. Can you point out where Saber has done that?

Spoiler: pretty early on in Fate route (click to show/hide)

Saber - "Shirou we should attack the temple."
Shirou - "No I don't think that's a good idea."
Saber - *sneaks out at night and attacks the temple anyway*

I think that's what happens, I haven't read it in over three years. That's just the first example that pops in my head.

That's the one I was thinking of.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There's also a few times where Saber refuses to retreat, and she ends up with someone else on two out of three routes.

I certainly wasn't. Even though she does kinda' chill after getting the deadly assassin snugglebuddy, the casters in general were something I explicitly noted as being likely to go off the rails. Which... as far as I can remember,* most of servants that go strongly AWOL are either Archers, Casters, or significant system errors. Otherwise they seem relatively likely to toe their master's line, given the option.

I was talking more to Sergarr, she seems to go against his theory pretty badly.

[Hawkfrost]

I love how it's been fifteen episodes and I still don't know how to play WIXOSS.
This is the most amusing case of a show being commissioned by a company to advertise a product, and then the studio just ignoring the whole advertising angle to do their own thing with it. At least, that's really how it feels.

[Frumple]

I was talking more to Sergarr, she seems to go against his theory pretty badly.

Kinda' figured, but wasn't sure, heh. Still, all of the females in the mainline war are probably terrible case studies in servant behavior, really... Saber's Saber, Rider's a system glitch (plus extra matou dickery), and Caster's got that whole noble phantasm thing. Maybe the other wars/alternate time lines have less wonky servants? Don't remember, ha.

... it's actually kinda' amusing, now that I think about it. Berserker and lancer are the only two in that war that doesn't have something whacked out about 'em, iirc. Thing really was a bit of a cluster. Not really surprising, considering, but still...