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[Cthulufaic]

I've heard of Log Horizon, and it's on Crunchyroll too... maybe I should watch it.

After watching FoTNS again of course.

[Sinistar]

Argevollen and Aldnoah

Ok, seems interesting enough. Bookmarked.

If you want a legit serious, cold military sci-fi show like you say, Legend of the Galactic Heroes is the best one for that.

Hehe, I'm quite familiar with Legend of Galactic Heroes. A big fan in fact. And yeah, it's a real masterpiece. I can't imagine anime that will ever come close to it because... just everything is perfect in that show?
Stil, thanks for suggesting. Nice to meet another LoGH fan.

Hm, interesting. Personally I feel original Gundam series is still superior to every other UC series (bar War in a pocket and 08th MS team OVAs; and yeah, I'm one of those few who thinks Zeta was a stinker), but this is still enough to get me interested. Might check it out after all.

All UC is pretty excellent, but War in the Pocket, 08th MS Team and MS IGLOO overshadow them all.

IGLOO somehow slipped under my radar, will have to check it out.

All in all, I thank you all for suggestions that came flying my way. Thanks. Now...

Really? I can understand finding ZZ to be bad, but what's your issue with Zeta? (Honestly curious, I can only think of a few soft spots in the series, and am wondering if they're the problem.)

Ah, Zeta... You know, I've had a plan on doing a comprehensive review of Zeta, explaining everything what I find wrong in this show in detail, episode by episode. But this just didn't materialize yet. One day, I promise, you could read it all. For now though, I can only offer you a few opinions you are welcome to not agree with as I confess it's been a few years since I watched Zeta. AND I only watched it full just once, I started watching it for the second time out of sheer hate for it. Really, I was so disappointed by it I wanted to make sure it was not all just my imagination. And I'll confess some things make a bit more sense. But I didn't finish because of reasons I don't remember anymore.

Anyways. Be prepared my rant won't have much sense. And do note this is purely my opinion. I'm actually adding this line after I finished writing at the bottom and now I realize I wasn't short at all but here, have at ye.

To understand my disappointment with Zeta, you must first understand my general stance with UC series. I watched original Gundam first (watched Wind and SEED before it, but never finished either of it) and I was completely blown away. To me it's a serious military action dram that can get quite shocking despite being cleverly masked by it's shonen-y, up-beat opening score. After that I watched War in a pocket, 08th MS Team and Stardust Memory and apart from the later, all of them impressed me greatly. So here comes Zeta then. The series which, I was told, is so groundbreaking, deep, shocking and all in all hardcore I could have nothing but high expectations for it.

And what I was left with was shallow characters, lack luster action sequences, military aspect that was a mess and forgettable music. Apart from opening scene which is one of the best things to happen to anime world ever. Because here's the thing - despite what I've just said, those things are not why I thing Zeta is bad. Not at ALL. The tantalizing prospect of Zeta is that I don't find it to be a complete, dismissible shit. Oh no. There's quite a few stuff that's actually good. But the problem is it's surrounded but a mess of interests. Zeta doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. Or to put it better - Zeta knows exactly to whom it wishes to cater. And that is EVERYONE. Seriously. You have a monster-gundam-of-the-week for all the model enthusiasts/kids on one side, complete with "let me show you my secret technique!" moments and villains that are shallow to a point of being just your ordinary Sunday-morning-cartoons villains (at first glance). But on the other hand Zeta tries to be your serious military story about guerrilla force, fighting something much more subtle than a full scale war AND the people in this fight a supposed to actually have feelings. But it... it all just feels wrong. Or maybe over the top? Extreme? Zeta's characters DO have emotions, feelings, ambitions. But After initial introduction I never felt like they built on them. Never felt like they overcame them OR succumbed to them. Or if they did succumb to the "dark side", it just left me questioning "Why is this anything else than a plot device for the sake of dramatic plot device?". There just some much angst a show can serve before it all becomes a dull slap-his-mug-for-the-nth-time farce.

And even after being disguised by the show's empty characters compared to original Gundam, even then I can't say Zeta is crap.
It may sound crazy but it's true and it has to be told - Zeta has BALLS.
It has massive, moon-sized balls of pure gundamium. It has balls to paint a universe of bleak, evil antagonists so pure in their evil it actually makes them impressive. Some shows have your classic evil guys, some have evil-but-with-moral-agenda thinking evil guys, but Zeta's evil guys, in a world that is not entirely unbelievable, are incredibly shallow human beings. Despite everything, they are human. Even if the chief douchebag is just a douchebag in charge, he does not try to persuade the watcher of how very evil douchebag he is, no!, he will stick to his plan of universe domination and actually forgo the classic mocking and flamboyant ways of shonen-type commercial anime. Zeta's baddies are douchebags, but they stick so firmly to their ways you believe them.
And Zeta has balls to take the characters you've known (and LOVED!) from previous series only to kill, murder their spirits. There is no catharsis for wonder boys, no catharsis for ace pilots that got revenge in the end, no catharsis for captains who are heroic veterans of the past war. And good luck finding that sweet precious child that brought tears to you eyes amidst the fires of the 0079-0080 war - that child has grown into an angsty teenager extraordinaire whose repeated bashing with his head against the ever the same wall win him only your, the viewers, joy at his ultimate demise, no matter how sickened you feel at the destruction of his character.
Yes, Zeta has balls to paint a nihilistic existence where being just a rational human is something unheard of and those who try are ultimately swallowed by douchebagery of dickheads on BOTH sides. Yes, it takes BALLS to do a show where you absolutely don't look forward to ANY side winning because the "good" guys are just the same shallow, weak, dull creatures as the "bad" guys.

But all that being said, balls or no - I find the final product of all things just so. damn. dull. I don-t mind the bleakness of Zeta. Nor it's character destruction. But it makes it does make the show boring to watch. The overreaching problem of Zeta however is still the "everything" it tries to accomplish. There are good things there, for sure. But it never feels like it does something completely, at least when you keep all the parts in the picture. So my ultimate conclusion would be I don't despise Zeta for what it is. But for what it could be.

And don't get me started how animation feels worse than that of original Gundam. Or how downright fugly some mechs are. But boils down to personal preferences I know.

To give you an example - Gundam ZZ. That show is just a commercial spin-off shit show raping Gundams name. But you know what? It doesn't even try to hide that. You have robo-boxing, your characters turned into a caricature of themselves and kids, KIDS, cheering when the kill, KILL, an enemy. All in just first few episodes. No, I actually do not dislike it for this as I dislike Zeta. ZZ has another problem - it actually has a premise of becoming decent.

Spoiler: some minor ZZ spoilers and ramblings (click to show/hide)

See, when the arc shifts to land war on Earth, the series actually becomes more serious. Kids finally realize what war is, how you kill and can be killed. Lot's of sweating, lots of heavy breathing. Tactics, battle plans. Sure, whats-his-name-again main character goes super-sayan at one point and overall the whole action never reaches the quality of, say, original Gundam. But the ambition is there. Let's not forget how previously dismissible villain suddenly becomes the-man-with-the-plan and let's not forget the all so real, all so brutal colony drop. But the point where ZZ become frustratingly bad is after the Earth arc. When kids go back to space. It's just the worst of the 1st part + the drama of the second and the final, unholy hell-spawns this unity gives birth to are things like research ship sacrificing itself instead of letting military ship do it's real for the sake of !!DRAMA!! and previously completely unimportant one-episode character suddenly becoming important and then dying in most spectacular "but how the hell did she even die, that thing didn't even hit her" way.

Yes, I would in fact recommend ZZ over Zeta out of sheer consistency-turns-somehow-interesting stuff the former has if it wasn't for the 3rd arc.

[Parsely]

I hate the characters of Zeta so very much. Most of the mechs are pretty beautiful TBH but anything that transforms or is classified as a Mobile Armor can generally be said to look like crap.

I'm not completely sure what you mean why saying that the show tries to do everything at once.. Any examples of that?

The only point I really disagree with you on is the action. I personally found the fighting to be very exciting whenever it happened, especially near to the middle when they attack Jaburo, though there is a lot of reuse of stock footage, which is really disappointing (though I chalk that up to cheap producers, underdeveloped animating techniques and generally a symptom of the times, especially when it came to heavily serialized anime).

[Sinistar]

I hate the characters of Zeta so very much. Most of the mechs are pretty beautiful TBH but anything that transforms or is classified as a Mobile Armor can generally be said to look like crap.

Yeah, as I said, it boils down to personal preference. Me? I like bulky mechs. Rick Dias makes my mech boner HARD. And let's not forget The O. Good grief. The ass on that one would make any Brazzers actress blush and even your worst pro-ana lover would have to be like dayum.

On other hand, Hamrabi made me almost puke. But there's worse thing out there, like that thing I can't find the name of right now but looks like a retarded pink mech with a Baroque-sized skirt in mech form and a turtle with a dragon head in it's "compact" mode (found it) Baund Doc. Doesn't really have a dragon head in it's other form but still. THAT thing has the power to make me bring up lunch I've already digested.

Now that you mention it, it could be my gripe is with the MA ones. Though I'm totally ok with Asshimar.

I'm not completely sure what you mean why saying that the show tries to do everything at once.. Any examples of that?

I guess the point I was trying to make did get lost in my rant after all. Tbh, I did forget quite some things but the general feelings I have about it is it tries to be everything. I'll have to refresh my memory one day by watching it again, hm.
Well, I've mentioned the mech-of-the-week one. The number of mechs introduced in each new episode... To me it felt too artificial to be justified in any other way than "let's make more mechs because kids love them" kinda way. Targeting younger demographic, see. Of course every Gundam series introduces new mechs over time. Still, it just felt...too much. And without any reasons. Because Zeta also aims to be that serious military show, aiming at much older audience. But then you have teenagers that have entirely too much angst pent up to the point it seems like they were trying to make "kids rebel against the old generation". Or just kids growing up. AND then you had romance. And drama.
This, of course, is entirely normal. Which anime doesn't have romance and drama and kids growing up? (Apart from those that don't have kids, drama, romance or...well, you get me) But the way characters are they never excel at any of this thing despite being total try-hard at it. Does that even make sense? Well, characters are almost fantastically immovable in their determination to not change. o matter how many times they get slapped in the face. Sure there are some changes, but it doesn't really feel that characters grow. And because of THAT it feels some drama and romance stuff was added just for the sake of adding it, that is, for the sake of completeness, "being everything". Nothing wrong with characters being morons. Just don't force them in situations where they meet their "sister" and firmly believing this is their long lost sister despite not ever knowing, hearing or being told by any that you have a long lost fucking sister.

Or turning sides just because you are aparently a very troubled character inside and you are completely swayed away by a man you met just once and then you switch sides just for oh-I'm-such-a-bad-and-troubled-person-just-kill-me-you-don't-understand-me drama. For fucks sake Reccoa.

Sorry, no concrete examples apart from those two. I should REALLY watch Zeta again.

The only point I really disagree with you on is the action. I personally found the fighting to be very exciting whenever it happened, especially near to the middle when they attack Jaburo, though there is a lot of reuse of stock footage, which is really disappointing (though I chalk that up to cheap producers, underdeveloped animating techniques and generally a symptom of the times, especially when it came to heavily serialized anime).

And I'll partially agree, some action was great. But here I'll echo something I did mention somewhere in my post above - some things are damn fine, but there just tons of crap to cover them up. I did mention that right? I think... Well, yeah, Jaburo is great. But then there's tons of scenes where beam weapons just cover everything and all the characters do is just duck... I think? Well, I remember fights in MSGundam have had a lot, and I mean a LOT more tactics involved. There was all that "only capital ships have beam weapons" thing around and the battles just didn't seem like everything is just covered by laser beams like in Zeta. Or how those personal jet board mech ride make all the fights, bizarrely, less about how to approach and avoid the enemy and more "just rush him"? Or already mentioned "secret techniques" like that fucking Hamrabi net attack or what was it. I dunno man... apart from few bright examples fights in general just didn't impress me, but my memory is again a bit hazy about this whole thing so I won't press this on unless you wish me to.

edit: My point is, the action might be good sometimes, but it definitely didn't struck me as memorable as that in, for example, MSGundam despite seeing the later just once and even more time ago than Zeta. I can remember Jaburo, now that you mention it, and iirc that second fight with psy-gundam  in that base was cool...I think? And Psy-Gundam in HK might be cool?... I really can't remember.

[Neonivek]

Me? I like bulky mechs

For me it depends on the setting.

The reason I don't like Bulky mechs in the Gundam universe is because bulk is not helpful... it is a clear design flaw only used for sucky terrible mobile suits and gundams that no one will ever want straight up... especially since you will still pretty much die to a direct shot ANYWAY, and if you do survive a flimsy stick figure gundam would do the same.

For something like... MechWarrior where being bulky can actually mean tanking... it is fine. Mind you most mechs in MechWarrior are pretty dang ugly.

Heck even the show seems to agree with me... In Gundam Build Fighters all the giant gundams were considered a total joke.

[IronyOwl]

I have a feeling if I was an anime detective... I'd just decide to stay home...

Probably would save more lives that way.

Pretty sure this is true of serial detectives in general. And possibly a lot of other heroes/adventurers as well.

[Parsely]

The reason I don't like Bulky mechs in the Gundam universe is because bulk is not helpful... it is a clear design flaw only used for sucky terrible mobile suits and gundams that no one will ever want straight up... especially since you will still pretty much die to a direct shot ANYWAY, and if you do survive a flimsy stick figure gundam would do the same.

For something like... MechWarrior where being bulky can actually mean tanking... it is fine. Mind you most mechs in MechWarrior are pretty dang ugly.

Heck even the show seems to agree with me... In Gundam Build Fighters all the giant gundams were considered a total joke.

A lot goes into slimming mobile suits down once beam weapons become prolific in UC, a lot of stuff you see in Zeta is left over ideas from the One Year War where most everyone was still fighting with guns and armor was important, but you do get to see stuff like the Mobile Armors which are big enough to absorb multiple hits from beam weapons.

Awww, Mechwarrior mechs are beautiful in a pragmatic, geometric way IMHO. But most of the pre-MW redesign Battletech stuff was pretty dang gross.

In Build Fighters it's more of a way to show off how tough the other people are because they use small mechs, it's pretty much the role of Mobile Armors in the shows. I don't think a good guy has ever once used a big mech. You also see that a lot in other fiction, the bad guys are always the ones with the big huge death machines.

[Hawkfrost]

Armored Core mecha (LAHIRE and White Glint, swoon) and Knightmare Frames are my personal favorites.

One of these days I'll watch Gundam. One of these days.

[Neonivek]

In Build Fighters it's more of a way to show off how tough the other people are because they use small mechs, it's pretty much the role of Mobile Armors in the shows. I don't think a good guy has ever once used a big mech. You also see that a lot in other fiction, the bad guys are always the ones with the big huge death machines.

In all fairness I am completely misrepresenting the show.

Since the reason the guy lost isn't because his mechs were big, in fact they were rather dangerous and one of the most dangerous Gunpla in the show was GIGANTIC and owned by someone who made it to the semi-finals, but because he used giant gundams and vehicles even when the situation didn't call for it and relied on their raw size to carry them through no matter what.

Also when I think about it I am somewhat disappointed there wasn't more vehicle play in gundam build fighters.

[Parsely]

In Build Fighters it's more of a way to show off how tough the other people are because they use small mechs, it's pretty much the role of Mobile Armors in the shows. I don't think a good guy has ever once used a big mech. You also see that a lot in other fiction, the bad guys are always the ones with the big huge death machines.

In all fairness I am completely misrepresenting the show.

Since the reason the guy lost isn't because his mechs were big, in fact they were rather dangerous and one of the most dangerous Gunpla in the show was GIGANTIC and owned by someone who made it to the semi-finals, but because he used giant gundams and vehicles even when the situation didn't call for it and relied on their raw size to carry them through no matter what.

Also when I think about it I am somewhat disappointed there wasn't more vehicle play in gundam build fighters.

Well IIRC the Big Zaku went down for nothing.

[Neonivek]

In Build Fighters it's more of a way to show off how tough the other people are because they use small mechs, it's pretty much the role of Mobile Armors in the shows. I don't think a good guy has ever once used a big mech. You also see that a lot in other fiction, the bad guys are always the ones with the big huge death machines.

In all fairness I am completely misrepresenting the show.

Since the reason the guy lost isn't because his mechs were big, in fact they were rather dangerous and one of the most dangerous Gunpla in the show was GIGANTIC and owned by someone who made it to the semi-finals, but because he used giant gundams and vehicles even when the situation didn't call for it and relied on their raw size to carry them through no matter what.

Also when I think about it I am somewhat disappointed there wasn't more vehicle play in gundam build fighters.

Well IIRC the Big Zaku went down for nothing.

I am not exactly referring to the Big Zaku... though yeah that thing was threatening. Though I assume that the Big Zaku isn't even legal AND that all Gundams need to be a certain scale.

[Furtuka]

While all the units shown in the show were 1/144, its a bit unclear as to if theres a rule about that or if its just for cost effectiveness and ease of repair. Its kinda murky since we also see a 1/144 Blue Destiny unit 3 that has its arms replaced with the 1/100 equivalent for extra punchyness, and there was some magazine scans indicating that Aila used parts from the 1/100 Aegis Gundam when building the Miss Sazabi.

[Parsely]

Well IIRC the Big Zaku went down for nothing.

I am not exactly referring to the Big Zaku... though yeah that thing was threatening. Though I assume that the Big Zaku isn't even legal AND that all Gundams need to be a certain scale.

No I'm saying it posed no threat at all during it's brief cameo-like appearance, it was brought down p easily it seemed. But of course the Big Zaku was legal because it showed up during the big tournament. Also pet peeve: only certain mobile suits are Gundams, but you're sort of using that as a catch all term right now.

[Neonivek]

Well IIRC the Big Zaku went down for nothing.

I am not exactly referring to the Big Zaku... though yeah that thing was threatening. Though I assume that the Big Zaku isn't even legal AND that all Gundams need to be a certain scale.

No I'm saying it posed no threat at all during it's brief cameo-like appearance, it was brought down p easily it seemed. But of course the Big Zaku was legal because it showed up during the big tournament. Also pet peeve: only certain mobile suits are Gundams, but you're sort of using that as a catch all term right now.

Fine... The Gunpla Zaku wasn't legal, it was disguised as a stage hazard but otherwise wasn't a "player".

It was non-threatening MOSTLY by the fact that it was slow... but that was it... It also almost took them down several times and only didn't because 5 people teamed up on it. It likely could have soloed them.

[Parsely]

Fine... The Gunpla Zaku wasn't legal, it was disguised as a stage hazard but otherwise wasn't a "player".

Oh right, the weird shadow organization thing did it or whatever. I never did get that far in that show.