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[Leafsnail]

I didn't feel like the SnK plot of humans vs giants needed the powers as a main plot point. It felt like the writer didn't know where to go with the core concept so the powers concept is tacked on top of the "land of the giants" concept.

Wait, did we watch the same show?  How could you possibly say that?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The fact that humans can transform into titans is pretty much the biggest plot point in the entire series!  All of the abberant titans are obviously shifters and we're left wondering why humans are helping - or possibly even directly leading - the titans!  If you take out "humans (such as Eren) can transform into titans" then there's no plot at all.

I mean, maybe you wanted a generic "Humans are awesome" type story, but that's obviously not what SnK was ever trying to be.

[Reelya]

I think it's kind of obvious that the write came up with the idea of low-tech humans besieged by giants and living in huge walled cities first, then tacked on the explanation and plot twists afterwards.

Think about it, given the very basic synposis, any two writers told to come up with an explanation could pretty much add whatever they like. You could throw powers in, or no powers. Or have the plot explain the origins of the giants totally differently, etc. None of that is contradicatory to the basic concept of "human cities besieged by giants".

In that respect, Shinsekai Yori is far more cohesive as a narrative. The entire history of that world, and the relationships between the elements rely on the existence of the powers. If you removed the powers from that show, you'd have to put a placeholder in their stead like "technology" or something, but a "no powers" version basically couldn't be written.

But I don't think a "no powers" versiion of SnK would have presented any such difficulty for the writers or audience to accept.

[Sindain]

Uhhh Have you read the manga? Cause without the whole powers thing like the last two arcs of the manga wouldn't really exist.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If anything my views about the plot are the opposite. I could buy SnK without powers, but you would have to take away the titans too, and replace them with something like a besieging human army. The plot seems to be going more in the direction of "humans backstabbing humans" rather than "humans facing an inhuman threat".

[Reelya]

Now of course the current arcs of the manga rely on what the author has said before - that's self-evident. That doesn't affect my argument. Though I seriously doubt you'd have to remove the titans altogether to have a consistent story without the author's current explanation.

The giants besieging humanity, could have another explanation at the start. Aliens? Mutants? Secret weapons project? etc etc. And within each of those basic categories there would be dozens of ways you could interweave the elements. A good writer works with whatever they have, and I guarantee you that you could make any of those ideas work, and you'd now have manga arcs entirely dependent on whichever paradigm you chose to explain the titans.

Any two writers told to explain the titans would come up with different back stories. It's very unlikely a writer told the basic premise and asked to come up with an explanation would light on the one that the author did.

[Leafsnail]

I think it's kind of obvious that the write came up with the idea of low-tech humans besieged by giants and living in huge walled cities first, then tacked on the explanation and plot twists afterwards.

That doesn't sound obvious at all, but even if it's true: so what?  It's clear that the series was written from the start with the core plot element in mind - you see the weirdly intelligent and powerful titans in episode freaking one.  Without those titans the walls would never be breached (because humanity has already learnt how to keep out the regular titans indefinitely) and there'd be no plot.

e: Actually I know for a fact you're wrong here due to the author's original inspiration for the series.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He got the idea from meeting a very drunk man and realizing how scary a human being who cannot communicate - but who can potentially lash out violently - is.  So in other words the titans were intended to be people all along.

Any two writers told to explain the titans would come up with different back stories. It's very unlikely a writer told the basic premise and asked to come up with an explanation would light on the one that the author did.

So basically the way a story unfolds has to be so obvious that anyone could guess it just by reading a very cut-down version of the premise?  That's a completely bizarre viewpoint to take.  I'd understand this viewpoint if, say, the core plot element was introduced late or was underutilized, but in SnK it's introduced in literally the first episode and defines basically all of the later arcs.

[Reelya]

Any two writers told to explain the titans would come up with different back stories. It's very unlikely a writer told the basic premise and asked to come up with an explanation would light on the one that the author did.

So basically the way a story unfolds has to be so obvious that anyone could guess it just by reading a very cut-down version of the premise?  That's a completely bizarre viewpoint to take.  I'd understand this viewpoint if, say, the core plot element was introduced late or was underutilized, but in SnK it's introduced in literally the first episode and defines basically all of the later arcs.

Definitely not a good summary of what I said. I said there that there are MANY possible ways to develop the plot, all equally valid. The poster I was replying to said that without the *exact* plot development that occurred, that no giants could have existed in the plot. I was refuting that single point. What I said is that there are any number of possible and equally viable explanations that could have been written in for why giants are attacking the humans, the one the writer settled on isn't so special.

Anyway "origin of the giants" isn't really a complaint at all. What I specifically think is best summarized thus:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The most interesting potential aspect of the story - humans having to fight much larger enemies - loses out on a lot of potential by turning into a show where the focus is on a "chosen one" dude with superpowers and giants punching the shit out of other giants. The exact world history / explanation for the giants thus isn't that central to the complaint, that a hero who morphs into a giant is a lame concept, whilst humans having to use ingenuity to fight much larger enemies is cool.

And giants that come and go into thin air, is positively retarded.

[Bauglir]

I'm kinda with Reelya on this one. Sort of.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Intelligent titans were a perfectly well-developed plot device, I agree. They dropped hints in Episode 1, and pretty much outright said it during the opening of Trost. Being biomechas, specifically, was kind out of left field. I expected that the Titans were gradually developing intelligence as one type of aberration, and Eren's father had worked out a Super Soldier Serum kind of deal. Even the original inspiration you mention doesn't necessitate that the Titans have people riding in them - as a matter of fact, that seems counterintuitive since having lucid people in there drives you pretty far away from the existential terror that a drunken stupor implies.

However, my bigger problem with the shifter thing is the way it seems to be causing Superpower Diarrhea, particularly during the Expedition arc. I haven't read the manga, though, so perhaps that tapers off after Annie's capture - I really do need to get around to reading it. Still, it just kind of felt like after Trost, they were running out of ways to create short-term drama and resorted to mixing in a bunch of cheap tricks with the long-term setups and exposition.

Mind you I still love the series to death.

[Furtuka]

In todays Build Fighters MAXIMUM ADVERTISEMENT. But its okay because the episode was hilarious and that was some genuinely good advice straight out of the real life Meijin Kawaguchi's tutorials.

*resists urge to go build sazabi instead of doing homework*

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

also lol gunpla police.



Well Reiji, if you consider ace customs as separate Zaku's, then around 60. And then jumps up to 70 if you include the Seed ones. And that's not taking into consideration stuff like Goufs and Hizacks

[Boksi]

The Tem Ray Circuit? I guess it'd be useful for poor people who can't replace their gunpla after it gets trashed.[/SRW]

[Nightscar982]

Watched Princess Mononoke after watching it maybe ten years back, when I was a child. Still love it, and really enjoyed watching it again. My dad got us (note: my sister and I) to watch a couple of Hayao Miyazaki's films, like Naausica of the valley of the wind and Spirited away. His characters and the themes in the movies make them rather enjoyable to watch, I would think.

[Sindain]

I did that a while back. Last semester for my comm class we were suppose to write a review on a movie and my prof mentioned that our library had Princess Mononoke (He was a big anime fan) and since I hadn't seen it in a long time I decided to review it. Nice trip down nostalgia lane since Princess Mononoke was either the first or second anime type thing I ever watched. (Totoro might have been the first, I can't remember.)

[Parsely]

Spoiler: ACTUAL AoT SPOILERS (click to show/hide)

WHAT THE FUCK THEY GO THROUGH ALL THAT BULLSHIT WITH ANNIE SLAUGHTERING FUCKING EVERYBODY AND THEN EREN GOES FLAME ON AND SHE JUST TURNS INTO A FUCKING DIAMOND ARRGGHGHGHGHGHGGGGHHHHHHHH

[Vector]

I like you.

[Parsely]

I like you.

I like you even more than I already did.

It was seriously so frustrating for them to go through so much carp to just "op. nothn acomplished. srryz." It was like playing Megaman or being super constipated.

But I guess that's sort of the point of AoT. Its like a coconut that you keep smashing with a rock and it just. won't. fucking. OPEN

[Bauglir]

You're being overly kind, here. It's not just that the coconut refuses to open - it telepathically projects an illusion that it did open, only to reveal the charade when you chip your teeth trying to bite into the fucker.

why can't i stop biting