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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3070622 times)

Kadzar

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15630 on: November 18, 2013, 09:31:54 pm »

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You're talking about the movie with the blue space cat people, right?
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Korbac

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15631 on: November 18, 2013, 09:34:06 pm »

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You're talking about the movie with the blue space cat people, right?

Yes
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kaijyuu

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15632 on: November 18, 2013, 09:39:03 pm »

A lot of media have more or less value depending on the time and culture you live in. Yeah people will look back on some stuff and say "this is pretty meh. Why did people like it?" and often it's because they're watching it with a different perspective.

This is most easily seen with technical gimmicks. What was once incredibly cool and cutting edge looks old fashion and silly now.

Hindsight ain't 20/20 despite popular belief.
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15633 on: November 18, 2013, 10:05:25 pm »

My understanding is that Bleach was a reasonably OK manga that came to a conclusion, only the author then decided to continue it forever even though he had absolutely no further ideas for where to go.

But there was totally another way for it to go. First Arc: Ichigo is a Soul Reaper. Second Arc: Ichigo is also Part Hollow. Third Arc: Ichigo is actually a Vizard. etc.
Last arc: Ichigo is also actually a Quincy. It makes sense if you look at it from a standpoint of shounen character progression. Am I really the only one who saw it coming?

Yeah, I'm going to give it another go and watch past the prologues.

NoooooooooooooooooOOoOoOooOO! The anime is so bad though! The manga is so much better, in pretty much every way! You don't even have to bother with BlackStar's voice! It's almost the best part.
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i2amroy

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15634 on: November 18, 2013, 10:07:45 pm »

Also I enjoyed Death Eater. I came into it as "This is going to be silly and there is going to be action" and I was not let down.
Same here. They also did a rather nice job of finishing the anime when they ran out of manga to use.

That said while both the manga and the anime did a good job of mixing both silly and action, I find that the manga is generally a little more serious-actiony, while the anime did a more silly version of the story (mainly because they ran out of manga not too long before the story started to get a bit more serious). That said they are both great and if you are into that genre I highly recommend them both. :D

(And yes, Excalibur is hilarious :P)

Edit-response:
NoooooooooooooooooOOoOoOooOO! The anime is so bad though! The manga is so much better, in pretty much every way! You don't even have to bother with BlackStar's voice! It's almost the best part.
I actually thought the Japanese BlackStar's voice fit the character remarkably well, and was fairly hilarious for the most part (see note above about the anime being more silly while the manga is more serious).
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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15635 on: November 19, 2013, 06:26:13 am »

(And yes, Excalibur is-)
Fool! Soul Eater better than I gave it credit for but I ended up just watching Korra Season 1 all afternoon. I was not expecting
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kaenneth

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15636 on: November 19, 2013, 11:11:34 am »

My understanding is that Bleach was a reasonably OK manga that came to a conclusion, only the author then decided to continue it forever even though he had absolutely no further ideas for where to go.

But there was totally another way for it to go. First Arc: Ichigo is a Soul Reaper. Second Arc: Ichigo is also Part Hollow. Third Arc: Ichigo is actually a Vizard. etc.
Last arc: Ichigo is also actually a Quincy. It makes sense if you look at it from a standpoint of shounen character progression. Am I really the only one who saw it coming?
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 11:21:41 am by kaenneth »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15637 on: November 19, 2013, 11:20:52 am »

It is one of those things that you don't think that is where it is going, but you wouldn't  be surprised.

Like if Naruto discovered he is actually a Uchiha or Goku found out he was somehow half-human (Oddly enough... Human blood seems to do good for Saiyans)
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Darvi

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15638 on: November 19, 2013, 11:22:17 am »


Whenever a character starts collecting ALL the powers their universe has to offer, I think "Kwisatz Haderach"
Megaman?
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Korbac

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15639 on: November 19, 2013, 12:35:31 pm »


Whenever a character starts collecting ALL the powers their universe has to offer, I think "Kwisatz Haderach"
Megaman?

Megaman only retains them temporarily though, unfortunately. :(
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Zangi

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15640 on: November 19, 2013, 02:13:36 pm »

My understanding is that Bleach was a reasonably OK manga that came to a conclusion, only the author then decided to continue it forever even though he had absolutely no further ideas for where to go.
Agreed.

DBZ is interesting in that it started on top, then went down again, and somehow... it is now considered one of the staple shonen action shows.

As in it somehow climbed back out again. Probably because people realized that in spite all its flaws it beats out most of what gets on the air.

Like you eat a piece of pie and you aren't really wowed and you are like "this pie is quite bland" but then there is a pie baking contest and you realize that the pie you thought was bland is actually flavorful because all the other pies are worse.
May also have to do with nostalgia glasses.  It was probably one of the first action packed 'cartoon' with a real ongoing story that most people saw.  It will always hold a place in the hearts of many, including me, despite its many flaws.

Yeah, Soul Eater is sort of meh, but the manga is definitely readable. It also has some good character songs. If you didn't like Death the Kid, just wait until Excalibur.

I am honestly surprised to hear this given how "GREATEST ANIME EVER!" it was when it first came out.

Then again... Naruto was the same thing (then again it had potential... that it squandered), then again Bleach was the same thing...

Hmmm... It is like every once in a while there is going to be a very popular and highly regarded shonen action show that people will look back at later and just go "meh"
The first arc(s) were actually good(in my opinion).  Its just... they degrade at variable rates.  Kinda proportional to how insane the power level of the main character/everyone gets.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15641 on: November 19, 2013, 02:37:09 pm »


Whenever a character starts collecting ALL the powers their universe has to offer, I think "Kwisatz Haderach"
Megaman?

Megaman only retains them temporarily though, unfortunately. :(

No, Megaman keeps all his old powers.

It is one of the differences between the game and the story within the game.

Another difference is that the robot masters don't die in Megaman (to my knowledge at least... the only robot masters I know who actually died is Mummyman and the Alien Robot Masters)
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Flying Dice

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15642 on: November 19, 2013, 05:36:34 pm »

Yeah, Soul Eater is sort of meh, but the manga is definitely readable. It also has some good character songs. If you didn't like Death the Kid, just wait until Excalibur.

I am honestly surprised to hear this given how "GREATEST ANIME EVER!" it was when it first came out.

Then again... Naruto was the same thing (then again it had potential... that it squandered), then again Bleach was the same thing...

Hmmm... It is like every once in a while there is going to be a very popular and highly regarded shonen action show that people will look back at later and just go "meh"
The first arc(s) were actually good(in my opinion).  Its just... they degrade at variable rates.  Kinda proportional to how insane the power level of the main character/everyone gets.
IMO this is the core problem with shonen, and it stems in no small part from the genre being more-or-less all about power fantasies for tweenaged boys. When an author starts with that power escalation, they've doomed themselves to writing shit, because if you get into a Lensman arms race with individuals, sooner or later you'll arrive at the point where everything about the premise is batshit insane in the worst possible way. Especially when it devolves to characters asspulling random I WIN moves, or worse, antagonists who aren't actually a challenge and just have a stupid gimmick or keep running away.

Basically, "power levels" are the problem, both when they are inconsistent and make all but a few characters irrelevant, when they endlessly escalate, and when they have no downsides. One of the key elements of writing in a bullshit superpower is that it has to have an equally bullshit drawback: Superman is fucking Superman, but you can make him worthless with a lump of rock. Balefire erases anything it touches from existence, but it erases anything it touches from existence, and the more power put into it, the longer back in time those things didn't exist. The Berserker armor makes you strong, fast, and removes all sensations of pain, and can even fix injuries on the go, but it does this by forcing your body to ignore all its own warnings, stabbing you with metal spikes to reinforce your skeleton, and can cause you to temporarily go insane to the point where you see everything around you as an enemy. Shit like that.

What we get instead from shonen is a couple chapters/one episode of power incontinence and "oh teh noes so hard to control" (and maybe a bit character to sacrifice) before the status quo returns with an additional set of bullshit powers for the protagonist. Even the simplistic wish-fulfillment crap would be more interesting if characters had to work for their power instead of getting it in a short training montage/through plot coupons (or, gods forbid, if the entire series progressed in some way not linked to how much glowing crap people can shoot), if someone other than the main character and their main enemy at the time mattered in the power scheme of things, and if there wasn't all the fucking sexism.

Seriously, on that note. Think about the shonen series out there. Now think about the number of competent female characters. How many of them are irrelevant in fights by the second arc? How many of them are stuck with the crappy support powers/roles? How many of them get one spotlight moment where they're real members of the cast before they go back into the fucking support/emotional leash bench? How many of them do all their awesomeness offscreen because they're tokens who don't travel with the protagonists? How many of them can even pass the Bechdel test? Naruto's one of the biggest offenders here, but most of them do it at some level. I mean, of all the places where you'd expect to find relative gender equality, wouldn't the ones where people blow each other up with magic bullshit and superpowers be it? Or is there an assumption that children can't possibly empathize with people of the other gender? That might be the biggest bullshit of them all.

That's the end of that rambling, incoherent rant on why I fucking hate shonen norms.
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Furtuka

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15643 on: November 19, 2013, 05:48:20 pm »

And that is why Jojo is the best shonen.


...well technically it's been Seinen since part 7 but still :P
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 05:52:05 pm by Furtuka »
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lemon10

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #15644 on: November 19, 2013, 05:56:36 pm »

A minor nitpick about Balefire. Erasing stuff from before it existed is actually pretty much always a benefit, since it has a significant chance of saving the life of people on your side if used in a battle, and if you are throwing a laserbeam instadeath spell at enemies, you want them to die as fast as possible, even if that is before you attacked them.
Its real downside is that it damages reality.
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