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[Zangi]

Wouldn't lances...  on a technicality be something really long, heavy, sturdier and designed for use on horseback/couching the poor unmounted mook? 

I should probably look that up...  Wiki on Lance

Yea, seems to be that way.  And yea, it is a type of spear...

[Neonivek]

Yep it was that kind of lance. It was actually surprising that they didn't go for a "Eastern weapons are better then western ones" they actually didn't deny how almighty calvalry could be.

It was actually impressive.

I like the Kenshin anime. It just goes TOTALLY weird last adventure. I mean insane! I never seen a show do that before. It is like you were watching Big-O and suddenly there are Wizards and everyone is just like "yeah they always existed and stuff".

[Lord Shonus]

Might be sword fighting and exotic weaponry is more popular and shiny.  Even though spears are a bit more prevalent in military history.  Actually, it might be cause of that, spear type weapons are for the unwashed mooks and unskilled commoners who work as statues and serve to die.

Not quite it, I think. When spears show up, they're almost always used in a very basic stabbing, usually in a line. It was the artistic and graceful methods she used that intrigued me, and it's that which I've never quite seen before.

[kaijyuu]

The fiance, her brother, and I were discussing gender balance in anime, and were having trouble finding anime that A) had a balanced cast between male and female (not strictly 50/50 but close enough), and B) the men and women were both roughly equally important and effective.

Seems most anime have huge gender discrepancies. Few qualify for A and even fewer qualify for B.


Any good examples from y'all?

[Max White]

Tsubasa Chronicles?
Two primary protagonists, one male one female. Three(Plus some depending on the episode) secondary protagonists, two male one female.
Roles are pretty equal in significance. Although at first it really just sits in the stereotype of 'guys protect defenseless girl' but gets a little better later on.


Yea, that was seriously the best I could think of off the top of my head. Anime is hard for this.
Fuck it just lock in Arakawa Under the Bridge and call it a day.

[Neonivek]

Well let me see.

For A and B it would be Fairy Tale. Though as people have mentioned ALL of the "Most powerful wizards" are male. Though I only seen 60 episodes it is freekishly not falling into the gender tropes I hate (for example: Females are much MUCH more likely to fall out of competency or give up fighting then male characters... or even relevance). Though given that "Anime hates women" I am sure the two main female protagonists will be made incompetent and irrelevant eventually.

The WORST for B and A that is from a modern series on the male side is probably "Yakkate Japan!" and don't get me wrong it isn't a sexist anime, I feel like its gender imbalance has more to do with the writers preferences and a change in the dirrection of the series (with it starting to cater overwhelmingly to the male lead). As the female lead is actually not only thrown aside and her plot forgotten but the series, it is a comedy afterall, likes to poke fun at the fact that she is so irrelevant even though she is the closest person to a true main character at least in terms of backstory. As well of the four female characters who can bake (this is a baking anime/manga) one never enters a contest and is thus useless, two of them are incompetent, and the last is psychotic and kinda entertaining sometimes.
-Oddly enough one character I thought was female given he had purple hair and has a female voice... He is a guy!

Though getting terrible animes for A and B at the same time isn't particularly hard, even for series with a wide cast and plenty of females to chose from.

" Although at first it really just sits in the stereotype of 'guys protect defenseless girl' but gets a little better later on."

Yeah but given it is Sakura from Cardcaptor Sakura who in her series ended up needing to save his butt like crazy. I can understand that.

I am never really bothered with characters who are incompetent (from the series main source of action... So in this case it is fighting, something Sakura cannot do) not being able to do much. I am REALLY frustrated at series with competent females or females who should become competent due to their aspirations... who don't because "They are women and we need to have the main character have all the glory".

Heck Kenshin an anime I like was worse because the female lead was supposively "really strong" and with a "Supreme warrior spirit" who only has ONE successful fight in the series and she trains constantly in the series (more so then even the male lead). At a certain point I started to joke that she was the weakest character in the show and say things like "No don't attack that knife weilding maniac he will beat you!" and yeah she would lose. Less skilled and weaker characters actually have a better track record then she does. It was frustrating because as a character I actually really liked her and as someone watching a story to see a character set up to be a competent warrior for the new age be so terrible at what she does is weak.

Heck I didn't even like it when "How to Train your Dragon" did it and it was a pretty decent movie and not an anime at all. Astrid who is a competent female character with strong aspirations that are constantly shot down by our male lead... just completely throws it away and doesn't even get to really resolve her story because "Her competence would get in the way of our hero being heroic". -_-

Holy cow I went on a tangent and actually lost complete track of time.

Honestly you should remember that B only matters if it remains that way. A lot of series start off promising enough with strong and important female leads and side characters only to smack them with irrelevence in the final act.

[Vector]

Princess Tutu is kind of female-weighted (many female minor characters), but has two male, two female leads who are very, very evenly split in terms of effectiveness and ability.

Similarly, Card Captor Sakura... and Paranoia Agent.

[Max White]

You know, CLAMP just sort of does this well. Chobits would be another example.
Unless you don't count especially effeminate females, then they are heavily female.

On the other hand, Bakemonogatari, right? Because those billion or so female cast members have the same plot impact as the three male ones...

[Neonivek]

Princess Tutu is kind of female-weighted (many female minor characters), but has two male, two female leads who are very, very evenly split in terms of effectiveness and ability.

Similarly, Card Captor Sakura... and Paranoia Agent.

Oh dang you are right... Princess Tutu is.

Yeah I forgot

Series that fulfil A and B tend to have ONE trait that is very common. The main character is female. As well series with A tend to have B as well.

-edit: Hmm my rant was bumped off. Not sure if I am happy about it because it antagonises everyone or sad because I won't get the "yeah I noticed that too" which I never get anyhow.

[Zangi]

Might be sword fighting and exotic weaponry is more popular and shiny.  Even though spears are a bit more prevalent in military history.  Actually, it might be cause of that, spear type weapons are for the unwashed mooks and unskilled commoners who work as statues and serve to die.

Not quite it, I think. When spears show up, they're almost always used in a very basic stabbing, usually in a line. It was the artistic and graceful methods she used that intrigued me, and it's that which I've never quite seen before.

I seriously would need to watch the episode again to get an idea of what you mean.... and of the head of the spear too...  It may well be a halberd and not a spear.  My memory is made of carp though...

Quick search finds me this:

Spoiler: Spear wielded by Kiriko Miyamoto (click to show/hide)

Alright, so it is a spear that can slash and poke.  I had in mind a poking spear type thing when you were talking about it.  So yea, I can see there being more fanciness to it.
Unless you are talking about some other spear....  then...

[Pnx]

I'm reminded of when I watched MLP:FiM. When I realised the entire main cast was female except for Spike my thoughts went something like, "Huh, there's nobody here I can directly relate to... I feel sort of left out, is this what being not a white male in western society feels like?"

[Zangi]

I'm reminded of when I watched MLP:FiM. When I realised the entire main cast was female except for Spike my thoughts went something like, "Huh, there's nobody here I can directly relate to... I feel sort of left out, is this what being not a white male in western society feels like?"

... I've lost that mode of thought heck of a long time ago... especially during the shift to 'modernized' cartoons with the trash talking cocky punk heroes and stuff really turned me off on bothering to 'relate'.
So, I'm not one to try to relate... or emphasis with characters by trying to see me in them.

Also, not white... grew up and schooled where my color is not very common.

[kaijyuu]

Hrm? I've never had any trouble relating to female characters. Or black characters. Or alien ones that are purple and of a weird third gender. All I need for that is for them to have human personalities.


Anyway, the impetus of this was watching G Gundam, where the sole important female character is shown to be incompetent at piloting and is only good in a support role. I was wondering why she couldn't get at least a few scenes where she was directly useful at solving one of the conflicts or battles.

Ultimately I'm thinking about sexism as it is perpetrated by authors and expected by audiences; some shows put women in support roles who can't do any fighting or whatever "because they're women," and some audiences agree with that bullshit and expect it. I love it when shows give such people the middle finger and show women as equally competent to men. Not superior, not inferior.

[Neonivek]

Ultimately I'm thinking about sexism as it is perpetrated by authors and expected by audiences; some shows put women in support roles who can't do any fighting or whatever "because they're women," and some audiences agree with that bullshit and expect it. I love it when shows give such people the middle finger and show women as equally competent to men. Not superior, not inferior.

Mind you equally aggrivating though is the "Woman who must prove she is competent because she is a woman and thus is expected to be incompetent" archtype. Who is so focused on "proving women are just as good" that they somehow do the opposite and instead make themselves be the "Exception".

Which is why what you said tends not to happen. Unless there is a reason to a female character shouldn't "have" to prove herself so to speak.

[kaijyuu]

Aye, I don't expect female characters to need to "prove" anything. If it's just taken as fact that women are equal to men in-show, and not questioned, then it's far more progressive than what you described.

What I want is a show that would make a sexist raise their eyebrow and say "this is unrealistic" when a woman (or a man, for the misandrists out there) performs equally competently to their gender counterparts. I don't want the show to draw attention to it; quite the opposite.