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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3129165 times)

IronyOwl

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11625 on: June 01, 2012, 07:10:10 pm »

I know but it still helps that those are the "Exceptions" rather then the examples that break the rules.
That's something you have to actually demonstrate. You can't just say "Yes but those are exceptions not rules" and act like you've made your point.

Though I am impressed people didn't start posting animes that focus on female characters or had a female lead. Like Nagima 1000, Sailormoon, or Digikarat.
Well, you did list those as explicit exceptions.

I call it the anime Women default rather then the Anime universal rule on women.
You still don't explain it, though. Admitting there's exceptions isn't the same as explaining why they're exceptions to an otherwise solid rule.


You mean Chichi the woman who was on par or even stronger then Goku who was put down soo badly she became useless? Or Android 17 who was also thrown into the pile of incompetents before even the Cell Saga was complete?

Sorry but Dragonball is the example I use to prove the point.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Manga Chichi blew up a dinosaur, got gently curbstomped by Yamcha, grew up, and then got gently curbstomped by Goku; perhaps anime Chichi was different?

More importantly, everyone except Goku and sometimes Gohan sucked. Trying to use Chichi or 17's uselessness as an example of women being useless in general is about as relevant as trying to use some Hellsing mook as an example about people wearing brown hats dying a lot.


It isn't about a woman being strong. Anyone in an anime can be strong. It is about whether or not they remain competent within the crux of the anime itself. My biggest complaint about anime and women isn't the lack of competent women altogether, it is that the sheer number of times they will introduce a strong competent woman who is thrown under the males is what bugs me.

There is either no competent women or women do not remain competent that is the anime woman default.
I was actually about to ask about your definition of "sucking." It sounds like you're saying it means "not relevantly competent," which would be fine except you're also trying to claim that "main character" includes all main characters, meaning your argument applies solely to side characters.

Is this correct?


Also, with regards to being competent at first and then sucking, are you changing your story completely or just trying to shift focus to your particular area of interest?


Also Just to prove how terrible it was. I remember how Goku beat Chichi. Since he couldn't hit her without hurting her... He punched the air to create a breeze to throw her out of the ring softly. Mind you it is supposed to be justified since Goku went through much greater training then Chichi did.
Just to prove my point, name three other characters that had not gone from "very strong" to "useless mooks" by that point.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11626 on: June 01, 2012, 07:14:29 pm »

Quote
Just to prove my point, name three other characters that had not gone from "very strong" to "useless mooks" by that point

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha (who was cheaped out by another character), Piccolo, Goku, and Kami

Yamcha you could argue against though given how badly he was defeated. I would wonder if Roshi would count too.

Though even if they were thrown under. They did fare much better then Chichi who would have lost to every single one of them.

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It sounds like you're saying it means "not relevantly competent,"

Yes.

---

As for why I won't outright argue my possition it is because there is no way to argue it and the people I am doing it infront of will just say "Well this show didn't have that." which they are already doing.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 07:25:53 pm by Neonivek »
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IronyOwl

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11627 on: June 01, 2012, 07:25:13 pm »

Quote
Just to prove my point, name three other characters that had not gone from "very strong" to "useless mooks" by that point

Krillin, Tien, Yamcha (who was cheaped out by another character), Piccolo, Goku, and Kami

Yamcha you could argue against though given how badly he was defeated. I would wonder if Roshi would count too.

Though even if they were thrown under. They did fare much better then Chichi who would have lost to every single one of them.

Quote
It sounds like you're saying it means "not relevantly competent,"

Yes.
...

Okay, you're going to have to remind me exactly when this was, then. I certainly don't remember any of them having not already gone from rival/superior status to wondering how the hell Goku could have gotten so strong by that point, other than anyone who didn't fight him until after Chichi in that very tournament.
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The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11628 on: June 01, 2012, 07:35:14 pm »

It hardly matters it only confuses the issue of not talking about.
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IronyOwl

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11629 on: June 01, 2012, 07:39:06 pm »

Alright then.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Euld

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11630 on: June 02, 2012, 01:03:07 am »

Why am I watching anime when I have homework to do :[

But I can't just NOT watch Slayers again...

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11631 on: June 02, 2012, 02:00:20 am »

Why am I watching anime when I have homework to do :[

But I can't just NOT watch Slayers again...

Which Slayers?

I have to say Slayers is one of the only two animes I know of that have like a billion rehashes (The other is Saint Seiya)
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Tellemurius

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11632 on: June 02, 2012, 02:07:27 am »

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Dragonball? ChiChi, Bulma, Android 17

You mean Chichi the woman who was on par or even stronger then Goku who was put down soo badly she became useless? Or Android 17 who was also thrown into the pile of incompetents before even the Cell Saga was complete?

Sorry but Dragonball is the example I use to prove the point.

Quote
What about Akane from Ranma 1/2

Female focused anime... oddly enough... and it is also an anime with a female lead (1.5 female leads)
?
It isn't about a woman being strong. Anyone in an anime can be strong. It is about whether or not they remain competent within the crux of the anime itself. My biggest complaint about anime and women isn't the lack of competent women altogether, it is that the sheer number of times they will introduce a strong competent woman who is thrown under the males is what bugs me.

There is either no competent women or women do not remain competent that is the anime woman default.

Anyhow I guess this isn't worth discussing anymore. Since conversations only work when the people talking know what you are talking about.
Ok what about Elfen Lied or Appleseed or GiTS?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:10:20 am by Tellemurius »
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ToonyMan

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11633 on: June 02, 2012, 02:13:33 am »

Since conversations only work when the people talking know what you are talking about.
Maybe it's because you're wrong wrong wrong wrong
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11634 on: June 02, 2012, 02:26:40 am »

Since conversations only work when the people talking know what you are talking about.
Maybe it's because you're wrong wrong wrong wrong

Ok lets say I am wrong. You still don't know where I am comming from.

Also why when I said to stop you guys brought it up again?

Quote
Ok what about Elfen Lied or Appleseed or GiTS?

Are you doing those examples on purpose? Ok here are the rules I keep bringing out.

1) The anime must have no female lead unless they are in a non-helpful role.
2) The anime must have a main cast that is less then 50% female.
3) I probably shouldn't count animes where the main villain (and thus the villain lead) is a woman... but ehh.

Now remember that this female character must remain important AND relatively competent (so if the show is about Sand Castle building the female character needs to be good at making sand castles) AND Alive.

Now this is just largely a set up.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:30:35 am by Neonivek »
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Tellemurius

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11635 on: June 02, 2012, 02:30:46 am »

Well cause i want to see this argument.

only one that i can play off my head is Eden of the East

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11636 on: June 02, 2012, 02:38:19 am »

Well cause i want to see this argument.

only one that i can play off my head is Eden of the East

That fits in with my rules?

I can probably think of a few more... uhhh... I was about to say Fairytale but it actually has a 50/50 split (and I currently love how it actually doesn't incompetentises women... Though my friend pointed out when I complimented Fairytale on that, that all the most powerful wizards established so far are all men, or rather the guild masters I believe)

One Piece has two female characters and Nami was never a combatant, who later gained combat prowress but isn't really a fighter she just has been forced to (though I always prefered Uusop's battles). and Nico Robin who is, last I heard, is still a competent character who just doesn't want to fight who is on par with everyone else... If what I heard is correct.

Keichi World's Mightiest Disciple barely counts (and would outright count if they continued that anime... Too bad the manga actually seems to get going AFTER the anime's stopping point).

NOT COUNTING MARCHEN AWAKENS ROMANCE! Damn that anime!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:44:53 am by Neonivek »
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Euld

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11637 on: June 02, 2012, 03:12:35 am »

Why am I watching anime when I have homework to do :[

But I can't just NOT watch Slayers again...

Which Slayers?

I have to say Slayers is one of the only two animes I know of that have like a billion rehashes (The other is Saint Seiya)
Slayers NEXT I think, the second season.  The show really goes downhill after that in my opinion :/

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11638 on: June 02, 2012, 03:18:01 am »

Why am I watching anime when I have homework to do :[

But I can't just NOT watch Slayers again...

Which Slayers?

I have to say Slayers is one of the only two animes I know of that have like a billion rehashes (The other is Saint Seiya)
Slayers NEXT I think, the second season.  The show really goes downhill after that in my opinion :/

Ohh wait I just remebered another show with about a billion rehashes. Cutey Honey.
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kaijyuu

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #11639 on: June 02, 2012, 04:04:23 am »

Yeah the first two seasons of slayers are great. Third sucked, and the seasons that came out a decade later are just meh.

Friend of mine is a big fan of the franchise and says that the manga/light novels are much more consistent.
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