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[JoshuaFH]

I didn't watch Gamers! but I was interested enough to learn what it was about, and when I learned it was actually some kind of romance romcom in disguise, I was turned off to the idea of watching it. I mean, if there's gonna be romance, it should be the nerds' romance to their digital waifus.

Can I ask, does Gamers! have humor that goes like this:

Male character: Hey, can I ask you a question?
Female character: ?
Male character: I have a girl I like and I don't know how to confess to her.

and the whole time he's talking about the girl in his dating sim game, but that info never gets across and he's basically asking for game tips. It's instant misunderstanding-type humor. I can imagine something like that, and I think that'd be funny.

[Tack]

It is not. It's more like

Male Character: Hey, can I ask you a question?
Female character: ?
Male Character: There's a girl I like and I don't know how to confess to her.

and the whole time he's talking about his other classmate to his best friend who thinks that he likes her but he doesn't really, for now.
Also he plays games.

[JoshuaFH]

So... standard romcom stuff?

[Cruxador]

I didn't watch Gamers! but I was interested enough to learn what it was about, and when I learned it was actually some kind of romance romcom in disguise, I was turned off to the idea of watching it. I mean, if there's gonna be romance, it should be the nerds' romance to their digital waifus.

It's not really romance. The romantic relationships are more like an impetus for the story and the comedy; it's not worth watching if all you want is a romance.

So... standard romcom stuff?

In the same way that KonoSuba is standard isekai stuff, sure. But in the same way that KonoSuba works out more like a sitcom in actual presentation, Gamers! works out more like a farce. If you like kids and watching them stumble through their lives makes you smile, you'll like this show, because it takes those foibles and ratchets them up almost (but not quite) beyond the limits of believability.

tl;dr: It's a comedy about dumb dorks.

[JoshuaFH]

I started rewatching Death Note, and while I knew that Light's fatal flaw was hubris, I apparently forgot the full extent of it. Even in the first episodes, he's just the most arrogant shithead in existence. The path to becoming the 'god of the new world' that he envisions is there, it's right there! But he wants to beat down L who bruised his ego with that one first deception, and therefore makes purposeful mistakes in order to draw the investigation on himself closer and closer. It's not enough to be the literal most powerful human in existence, he has to win this intellectual pissing contest with L, such is hubris I guess.


I actually wanted to ask about Konosuba. I watched like the first 5-6 episodes, on the recommendation of Mother's Basement who apparently thinks it's the best show ever, and I just found it dreadfully boring and unoriginal. I feel I'm missing something, but I suppose that Jeff just has things he irrationally dotes on, just like me and perhaps everyone else I guess.

[Reelya]

I had pretty much the same reaction to Konosuba that you did, wondering what all the fuss was about. It was mildly amusing but it didn't stand out as rollicking fun or anything.

[Cruxador]

I actually wanted to ask about Konosuba. I watched like the first 5-6 episodes, on the recommendation of Mother's Basement who apparently thinks it's the best show ever, and I just found it dreadfully boring and unoriginal. I feel I'm missing something, but I suppose that Jeff just has things he irrationally dotes on, just like me and perhaps everyone else I guess.

Nah, it's a silly comedy. It does what it does very well, but if what it does doesn't align well with your sense of humor, there's no reason you would like it.

[JoshuaFH]

Fair enough.

I finished this season's last episode of Boku no hero, and goddamn was that a hype tease for what's to come. Like, I talked about it having a grounding in reality, and the last part of the episode where Midoriya is in the police station giving his statement, while objectively kinda boring, makes me respect the show a lot. Like, they didn't have to do that, it's such a little detail that most shows wouldn't even CONSIDER doing, but it's just something that immerses me into that stupid hero world just THAT MUCH MORE.

Like, anime in the mainstream has a bad rap, and for good reason, I can see why it is not popular at all with the wider media-consuming world. Even for the coolest and best shows, the narratives are obviously kinda childish and shallow. Even if you ignore all the shows that are the worst and just give anime a bad name everywhere (Like the previously mentioned loli harem shit), the lack of serious thought and detail in most animes is telling of either disrespect towards anime fans, or anime creators not respecting themselves enough to want to try creating things that are serious and want to be on par with more serious and detailed media worldwide; and non-anime fans can tell, they don't even need to think about it, it's subconscious, that it's manchildren being led by other manchildren, and they don't want to be a part of it at all. Like, while I still consider myself an anime fan, it takes some serious cajoling nowadays to get me to give something new a fair shot, unless there is some serious pedigree on the staff like with ONE stuff, because it's obvious that most animes are not at all interested in being risky, innovative, or challenging their audiences. Sure, I guess there's some value in the formulaic otaku-bait that seems to be the most popular items that get created, but it's something that has no value to me whatsoever now.

That was a little rant, but that's what that little scene so strongly reminded me of, that animes CAN be thoughtful and loving with their fictional worlds, enough so to get me really invested and wanting to learn more about them. Here's to waiting for season three.

[Cruxador]

Like, while I still consider myself an anime fan, it takes some serious cajoling nowadays to get me to give something new a fair shot, unless there is some serious pedigree on the staff like with ONE stuff, because it's obvious that most animes are not at all interested in being risky, innovative, or challenging their audiences. Sure, I guess there's some value in the formulaic otaku-bait that seems to be the most popular items that get created, but it's something that has no value to me whatsoever now.

Depends on what you're into. The unique stuff is often from smaller studios, but to enjoy a breadth of anime, you have to be able to appreciate the little details. To be, at risk of sounding pretentious, a connoisseur rather than a consumer. Or you've got to be capable of enjoying things despite having seen similar things before. You're gonna want the latter in your life anyway, for when you get older and you run out of such vulgar pleasures as novelty. A lot of anime is designed to be comfort food; it distracts you from your dismal life and perhaps makes you feel an emotion for twenty minutes. Filling that need's a lot more profitable for the studio than coming up with something unique and original. After all, the people who don't need it have better things to do than watch anime anyway.

[hops]

SO this is unusual: Hell Girl Fourth Twilight starts off as an actual new series of the show, in where it does more of the same of showcasing unrealistically terrible people being assholes for no reason and then they go to hell and get their comeuppance, but then episodes 7-onward are... reruns of episodes of the first season? Like, not similar, they're the exact same episodes, just copy-pasted.

WTF Studio Dean? I can understand filler, but just reruns? I'm so confused.

I mean the first seven episodes of the first season were fillers too.

[Flying Dice]

-snip-

My recommendation would be to steer clear of the list of popular stuff licensed for official translations.

I mean, you have to remember that a lot of anime is made for young audiences. That Japan has different mores as to how much violent and sexy content is appropriate for children/teens doesn't mean that the same underlying simplicity or lack of care isn't just as present as in western works aimed at the same demographics.

But! The Western lowest common denominator is pure otaku trash, kids and manchildren who genuinely want brainless garbage. That's what's going to sell, so that's what gets licensed and yammered about in reviews. Some good stuff will come with, but you'll hear about the popular stuff by word of mouth anyways. Most of the stuff made for older audiences either doesn't get official translations or doesn't get talked about much because the kids and perverts &c. don't care about it, meaning that it isn't profitable for reviewers to talk about.

It's like if you sat down and watched Cartoon Network for 24 hours. There'd be a few decent shows for kids, some good stuff for adults on late at night... but the bulk of it would be brainless shallow garbage, albeit with less T&A than anime.

[Cruxador]

Made in Abyss is a great advertisement for the manga. It's also good in its own right, but it really gave the impression that there's a lot more to the story. Even so, it's a powerful story, gets you invested, and the last episode is incredibly fucking poignant.
The show also did do well in the Spanish-speaking market I believe, so maybe it's done well enough overall for more anime. It definitely deserves it, though it's about kids (and not tremendously idealized; in fact it's quite grim) which makes it more contentious in the anglophonic market.

But! The Western lowest common denominator is pure otaku trash, kids and manchildren who genuinely want brainless garbage. That's what's going to sell, so that's what gets licensed and yammered about in reviews. Some good stuff will come with, but you'll hear about the popular stuff by word of mouth anyways. Most of the stuff made for older audiences either doesn't get official translations or doesn't get talked about much because the kids and perverts &c. don't care about it, meaning that it isn't profitable for reviewers to talk about.

I don't think the western audience is as monolithic as this paragraph seems to imply. Truely, there are a lot of youths and plebs, especially at the more entry-level sites like MAL, but that doesn't mean you can't find a community that shares your tastes.

[Flying Dice]

But! The Western lowest common denominator is pure otaku trash, kids and manchildren who genuinely want brainless garbage. That's what's going to sell, so that's what gets licensed and yammered about in reviews. Some good stuff will come with, but you'll hear about the popular stuff by word of mouth anyways. Most of the stuff made for older audiences either doesn't get official translations or doesn't get talked about much because the kids and perverts &c. don't care about it, meaning that it isn't profitable for reviewers to talk about.

I don't think the western audience is as monolithic as this paragraph seems to imply. Truely, there are a lot of youths and plebs, especially at the more entry-level sites like MAL, but that doesn't mean you can't find a community that shares your tastes.

Which is why I was specifically talking about staying away from mainstream sources of recommendations, reviews, &c.: they're full of those people. And they absolutely are monolithic, just about any non-niche community/content creator pertaining to anime is going to provide two sorts of recommendations: good stuff that's included because they heard it's something you're supposed to like, and trash. Ever set of recommendations from such sources is functionally interchangeable, with scant few exceptions.

Problem with niche communities is objectivity vs. personal taste. Hence looking for stuff that's popular in Japan with adult audiences that never got translated: you're not being filtered by the foibles of whatever group you found.

[Cruxador]

But! The Western lowest common denominator is pure otaku trash, kids and manchildren who genuinely want brainless garbage. That's what's going to sell, so that's what gets licensed and yammered about in reviews. Some good stuff will come with, but you'll hear about the popular stuff by word of mouth anyways. Most of the stuff made for older audiences either doesn't get official translations or doesn't get talked about much because the kids and perverts &c. don't care about it, meaning that it isn't profitable for reviewers to talk about.

I don't think the western audience is as monolithic as this paragraph seems to imply. Truely, there are a lot of youths and plebs, especially at the more entry-level sites like MAL, but that doesn't mean you can't find a community that shares your tastes.

Which is why I was specifically talking about staying away from mainstream sources of recommendations, reviews, &c.: they're full of those people. And they absolutely are monolithic, just about any non-niche community/content creator pertaining to anime is going to provide two sorts of recommendations: good stuff that's included because they heard it's something you're supposed to like, and trash. Ever set of recommendations from such sources is functionally interchangeable, with scant few exceptions.

Problem with niche communities is objectivity vs. personal taste. Hence looking for stuff that's popular in Japan with adult audiences that never got translated: you're not being filtered by the foibles of whatever group you found.

Not sure what you mean by non-niche. I'd say generally people give their own opinions, which depend on their taste; you might perceive many people's taste as trash, but it's subjective and there are many people for whom their recommendations wouldn't be bad according to the criteria provided (which is mostly just a matter of being unimaginative) and even "what people have heard they're supposed to like" varies a lot according to community.

[Reelya]

SO this is unusual: Hell Girl Fourth Twilight starts off as an actual new series of the show, in where it does more of the same of showcasing unrealistically terrible people being assholes for no reason and then they go to hell and get their comeuppance, but then episodes 7-onward are... reruns of episodes of the first season? Like, not similar, they're the exact same episodes, just copy-pasted.

WTF Studio Dean? I can understand filler, but just reruns? I'm so confused.

I mean the first seven episodes of the first season were fillers too.

However the first season goes for 26 episodes, this new one is only 12. So it's almost all fillers.

-snip-

My recommendation would be to steer clear of the list of popular stuff licensed for official translations.

I mean, you have to remember that a lot of anime is made for young audiences. That Japan has different mores as to how much violent and sexy content is appropriate for children/teens doesn't mean that the same underlying simplicity or lack of care isn't just as present as in western works aimed at the same demographics.

But! The Western lowest common denominator is pure otaku trash, kids and manchildren who genuinely want brainless garbage. That's what's going to sell, so that's what gets licensed and yammered about in reviews. Some good stuff will come with, but you'll hear about the popular stuff by word of mouth anyways. Most of the stuff made for older audiences either doesn't get official translations or doesn't get talked about much because the kids and perverts &c. don't care about it, meaning that it isn't profitable for reviewers to talk about.

It's like if you sat down and watched Cartoon Network for 24 hours. There'd be a few decent shows for kids, some good stuff for adults on late at night... but the bulk of it would be brainless shallow garbage, albeit with less T&A than anime.

Yeah, I've made this point a number of times with my manga sales comparisons. You have what's popular in Japan ... then you have the stuff that's given prominence in the USA out of that. Stuff that's both tasteful and highly popular in Japan is seen as "fringe" by the American fans, even to the point of misinterpreting best-selling series in Japan as "niche" and uplifting pervy harem mangas that aren't actually big sellers in Japan to the literal top of the best-sellers chart in America.

Yeah, so a big part of it is in fact the fan scene in the USA who highly distort what's out there. Much of the "creepy" shit almost every western Otaku at least seem to know about is basically unknown to almost all Japanese - EVEN ones you meet who like anime. I've met Japanese anime fans and they don't know a fraction of the weird fringe shit from Japan we seem to all know about. It's basically as if the Japanese picked through all the weirdest fringe media in America - and there is weird shit out there, pile it all up along with all the Michael Bay and Adam Sandler movies, ignored everything else, then said "WTF America?"

So sure, it doesn't have to be so, but the American anime scene has painted itself into a corner. I'm reminded of this quote from the people who localized Akira. At the time it was a big hit, and the company head said in an interview (paraphrasing) "Yeah, there's all this other cool stuff too - romance, sports, drama, etc et. stuff for adult men and women, we can localize all that too!". And while it's sort of happened since simulcasts became a thing, that basically never happened. The way anime was marketed, in the USA specifically, painted itself into this corner we are in.

BTW: How many of those people who scoff at anime eagerly tune into reality shows? Your hobby just appears childish in relation to the best possible media in the best possible world. If you look at the volume of content objectively, almost all people are watching stuff that's much deeper on the trash pile. What I think is partly to blame here is "imposter syndrome" where people don't view themselves as "adults" so they second-guess the media they are ingesting as "not what adults watch". Well I got news for you. Average chick flicks are no deeper than e.g. Nana anime/manga, Marvel Movies are no deeper than a good action anime.