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[NullForceOmega]

The abridge is hilarious, really.  SAO itself is not good (and in many places very bad), but I honestly think that comes about because the real story is the Asuna/Kirito love story (which is arguably the best part of the series), but the rest of the story is an absolute mess, with all kinds of plotholes, writer fiat, and terrible tropes.  I half suspect that in order to get it published the author compromised and turned it into a shonen battle series when that clearly isn't a good way to approach it.

[Max™]

Well, I saw a neat looking sig on another board (which is the same way I found Kill Six Billion Demons, plus a few other things) with like a minotaur and some guy and then a big crazy bunch of slashing so I image searched it and thankfully the summary I saw warned me that this is not something I'm after, the gif was pretty much the best part as far as I'm concerned, no need for the big mashup of authorinsertwank that's the rest.

[Neonivek]

I really hope SAO: Abridged continues. I actually kind of like its explanation for the entire first season.

[Flying Dice]

If not "harem" then what succinct descriptive term would you use to describe the class of shows that invariably boil down to one guy and his gaggle of girls?

This is the specific element of the distinction that I'm pointing out. That sense of possessiveness, of the setting and plot revolving around the relationships of the girls to the guy, is what links the various expressions of the harem genre. And that's distinctly not what Konosuba does. The sex of the four main characters is irrelevant to their role in the story. It would not be appreciably different if any of the four were the other sex. This is why the romantic relationships (or reasonable potential for the same) and viewpoint-character orientation of the story and cast are such big tells: if, in a harem series, you made the viewpoint character or members of the harem the opposite sex, you would have a noticeably different tone and target audience.

The format of the show, through and through, is that of a comedy poking fun at specific types of media through the mechanism of a group of loosely connected "friends", each of whom is an overblown stereotype of a certain sort of behavior and an independent actor pursuing their own goals. In a harem series the goals of the bulk of the cast are specifically tied to the viewpoint character; they're describable primarily in terms of that single relationship. They are typically either one-note or two-note cutouts: their relationship with the SI-loser, and potentially a personal goal which exists solely so that the SI-loser can accomplish it for them to trip their flag.

We even get a bluntly overt mockery of that dynamic in episode 5 or 6, in that side character stereotypical haremshit MC with the creepy possessive attitude and dismissal of the possibility of women not wanting him to do things for them/not agreeing that he best understands how their lives should be lived.

[Reelya]

Not sure what you mean, unless you're talking about something that's in the books only, that happens after the time period of the anime. Nobody gets "trapped in a game" after the first arc.

Well in the second ark someone gets kidnapped (and I am sure there are more stakes than that... But either way someone manages to disable the logout function of someone and uses that to essentially kidnap them... a ability that still exists even in the third arc.).

You would think after the first incident this stuff would end up highly regulated. Yet the opposite seems to occur, the MORE the government is involved the less it is regulated.

The person in the second arc was the last person still trapped from the first arc, the perpetrator was still using the first generation tech, in secret. That person was never actually logged out and the new admin rigged things to keep it secret. Anyone using the post first arc equipment was never trapped.

~~~~

@FD: sure, instead of harem i could say "an ecchi slice of life / comedy series with 1 guy and 4 girls in the main cast". Those are the salient points in letting people know whether it's a show they would be willing to check out or not.

e.g. chthuluaic, he's clearly someone who will never be interested in a show of this general type, whether or not the particular romance dynamic you expressed is in there. Going "oh but it's not a harem, give it a chance" is basically false advertising.

To be honest I think someone would be better off watching Zero no Tsukaima than Konosuba, if they haven't seen either. there's much more plot development and action in Zero no Tsukaima, despite being a "harem" version of Konosuba.

[Flying Dice]

I honestly don't have a clue where you're coming from here. Zero no Tsukaima is entirely harem antics and fanservice (to an almost indescribably higher degree), plays all of the usual shit straight, and takes double-digit numbers of LNs just to find the plot.

It's (Konosuba) not ecchi either, god knows. Fanservicy-moments, just off the top of my head, are maybe once an episode, brief, and subdued.

Gonna ask outright: Seriously, how much of the show have you actually watched? Like, six minutes of the first episode? Because the fact that you're describing it as ecchi and comparing ZnT to it favorably, of all the lamentable dogshit harem series ever penned, says a lot. Especially given that your primary points of complaint were fanservice, the harem structure, and the cheap gag comedy. It's worse across the board. Like, I wouldn't really recommend ZnT to anyone on any basis (beyond it being a useful platform for fanfiction once you strip it down and rebuild it), never mind trying to convince people that it's a better series than one that doesn't directly and consistently chase the lowest common denominator.

[Reelya]

I watched all the first season of Konosuba, it was ok but nothing special. gag comedy with the otaku transfered to fantasy world setting, basically everything goes wrong for him. i don't get how you think that's really revolutionary. sure it's an inversion of several tropes, but it's a fairly old hat inversion. any sort of plot development in konosuba is played strictly for laughs, but they're fairly one note gags, such as the Big Bad is built up, then defeated instantly. hardeeharr.

ZnT has the stuff you mentioned, but it also has full blown wars that last entire seasons, and a definite plot arc. The reason i soured on Konosuba is I realized it was going nowhere, and is going to be the same thing stretched out for dozens of books. You could already start to tell that within the first season.

primary points of complaint were fanservice, the harem structure, and the cheap gag comedy

And remember, i never complained about those things. Those things aren't things that makes it bad, there things that people who aren't into those types of shows want to know about when being recommended shows. Cruxador said there wasn't fanservice, you say that even though its 1 guy and 3+ cutes girls it's not a harem. Sure you can argue about technicalities, and whether those things are in there as a deconstruction, parody or sincerely, but it's all those things, and people are going to watch it/not watch it based on those criteria.

The fact that it's about an otaku transfered to a gag comedy fantasy world where he teams up with 3+ cute girls for wacky comedy that goes nowhere plot-wise, and there may be parodic fanservice, that's enough for a lot of people to be turned off the general show type, and arguing points such as "well it's not a true harem because there's no romance element" or "yes there's fanservice but it's a gag, so not sincere" etc isn't the make or break point.

[Cthulufaic]

god damn, fist of the north star made me cry.  again.  at the same spot as before.

[Reelya]

2nd anime meetup here, getting to know the crowd. The show they picked to watch was the slice of life anime "Working" (luckily the people picking the animes have decent taste), it generally got a good reception.

I was asking one dude what he thought about it and he said it wasn't a type of show he saw before but thought it was really funny. Then another dude interjected "I didn't understand it, it's fucked, i hate it". What's not to understand, it's a gag comedy about people working in a restaurant? That's like saying you didn't understand a show like Community or something: "What's it about?"

So I asked that guy what shows he liked. And literally this - "naruto, dragonball ... oh and bleach". Yeah so ... there's that. Perhaps he didn't understand it because his knowledge of modern japanese culture / anime set in the regular modern world is next to non-existent.

[Trapezohedron]

Playing Steins;gate 0 on my off days.

It's ironic how I hated Chuuni!Okabe, but this time, I miss his goddamn Hououin Kyouma acts. Also, some characters in the game are rather contrived; some twists exist because. Shame, but so far just did 1/6 routes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I don't see how Kagari Shiina being Yuki in Vega and Altair have any significance at all. Not even Suzuha remarks why they look like their mom.

[Reelya]

btw people were calling Konosuba anime of the year and stuff. Not quite, it's about a 7/10 show for me, and it seems to have slumped towards a more normal rating now (mal: it came 6th in it's season).

I really did like Saiki Kusuo no Ψ-nan a lot more in 2016, and that did actually come first in user ratings for it's season, beating out Mob Psycho 100 and Shingeki no Souma, though it feels like nobody but me watched that on bay12.

[Cruxador]

I watched all the first season of Konosuba, it was ok but nothing special.

In many ways it's nothing special, but the VAs' delivery and effective portrayal of rapport were both unusually excellent. Sound design was pretty powerful at times too. Some people also found the occasional bits of wonky art to be charming, though I didn't.

ZnT has the stuff you mentioned, but it also has full blown wars that last entire seasons, and a definite plot arc. The reason i soured on Konosuba is I realized it was going nowhere, and is going to be the same thing stretched out for dozens of books. You could already start to tell that within the first season.

Yeah, the story is not an important part of the show, and the parts that make it good aren't nearly as prominent in the books.

and arguing points such as "well it's not a true harem because there's no romance element" or "yes there's fanservice but it's a gag, so not sincere" etc isn't the make or break point.

I definitely never said "yes there's fanservice". In my opinion, if it's not a sexual portrayal or intended to be erotic, then it's not fanservice in the first place. If someone asks "will I see a butt" or "is this a good show to watch with my kids" we'd probably offer more or less the same answer. But "there's crude and sometimes sexual humor throughout" is materially different than "there'll regularly be uncomfortably sexualized bits" and the people who will be turned off by that have overlap but are still distinct groups.

btw people were calling Konosuba anime of the year and stuff. Not quite, it's about a 7/10 show for me, and it seems to have slumped towards a more normal rating now (mal: it came 6th in it's season).

MAL ratings are made by the same sort of folks as you've seen at your anime meetup though. Yeah, some of them might have taste, but enough don't that the numbers aren't very meaningful.

[Flying Dice]

btw people were calling Konosuba anime of the year and stuff. Not quite, it's about a 7/10 show for me, and it seems to have slumped towards a more normal rating now (mal: it came 6th in it's season).

See, that's an entirely different kettle of fish. It's not a harem show or ecchi, but it's also basically just a lowbrow sitcom poking fun at JRPGs, MMOs, and a certain type of LN. A popcorn show, something you watch when you just want to relax and laugh a bit.

There's a reason I avoid MAL, anime fan-sites, and similar: they're full of weeaboos with shit taste who unironically watch stuff just for the T&A and self-insert fantasies. The sort of people who would still see Konosuba as a played-straight wish-fulfillment power fantasy because just having people willing to talk to you in public and a semi-steady job would be a step up.

[Cruxador]

I feel like Re: Creators is trying to turn me gay. They made all the cutest characters male.

Also it's a lot better than I expected from the artstyle and premise.

[Max™]

So Koe no Katachi was a pretty good adaptation. A couple of parts were left out that I don't think should have been.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Nako giving him the catpouch thing, and Mashiba punching him. They also didn't really show that when Shouko and Ishida were fighting as kids, she was smiling, which I kinda took as "finally someone treating me like another kid" in the manga.

Also, Blame! got a netflix produced movie!?!?!?! It was cool as shit, PWEEEEOOOOOOOORRRRNNNNNNNNNGGGG! ... THKOOOOM!