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Author Topic: I like anime, do you like anime?  (Read 3143622 times)

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29610 on: December 02, 2016, 04:43:03 pm »

Ok here it is:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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BFEL

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29611 on: December 02, 2016, 05:17:19 pm »

Oh holy shit I forgot about that. HOW DID I FORGET ABOUT THAT. That is gorram HUGE, obvious, and crucial to the setting.

That pretty much forces the setting I have to after the tournament.
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29612 on: December 02, 2016, 05:22:30 pm »

Also GOODNESS... Wixoss what the heck just happened?

You were always dark but what the heck just happened?
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29613 on: December 02, 2016, 09:35:42 pm »

Also GOODNESS... Wixoss what the heck just happened?

You were always dark but what the heck just happened?
I don't watch it so I don't know, but since the demographic is seinen, is it really surprising?
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BFEL

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29614 on: December 03, 2016, 10:09:31 am »

Anyone interested in the Dragonball game can join the mechanics testing thread here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161743.0
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Folly

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29615 on: December 03, 2016, 02:26:43 pm »

I just heard about Code Geass Season 3.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hopefully this may prompt a re-print of the earlier season DVD's/BluRays. I was never able to find a copy of season 2 with dubs.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 08:51:53 pm by Folly »
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Hawkfrost

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29616 on: December 03, 2016, 04:42:54 pm »

I'd like to point out that some people might not have watched all of Code Geass yet, and that includes people who might just be reading the thread and not posting in it.
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29617 on: December 03, 2016, 05:59:29 pm »

Yeah Folly, you should spoiler that whole thing.

Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29618 on: December 03, 2016, 08:42:54 pm »

Ever feel like a main character's true love is sometimes based entirely around who he liked first rather then anything else?
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Flying Dice

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29619 on: December 03, 2016, 09:03:54 pm »

First girl wins is a standard for a reason.

Just like how Nunnally won Lelouch ayy
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29620 on: December 03, 2016, 09:59:12 pm »

"Coming full circle" is a very common narrative technique.

If a relationship is going to be important at the end, then it would be very common to introduce that right at the start, and not have it cluttered up by introducing it randomly in the middle of a bunch of other plot threads. If you did that, you really do risk losing viewers who can't follow what's going on (e.g. if they miss a line of dialogue or miss 1 episode). So yeah, people who've been taught how to write will tend to frame their narrative so that the most important relationships are established first, or at least signaled early on.

Forms and patterns are everywhere in fiction, and they might seem limiting. But they're really not. Even the worst show ever made is a lot better than it could have been, because it was able to use narrative techniques from past stories to frame itself into something viewers can try and follow.

That's the thing: people complain about constraints in how genres are constructed, but if we got rid of those constraints you just know people would complain even more. We could be "more realistic" by showing the full time needed for people to walk to places, show them going to the toilet, and show them sleeping for 8 hours. if you start allowing characters to do anything even if it's out of the genre, then the whole thing collapses. you do see people complaining "why didn't the characters do <thing X>" when "thing X" is the type of thing which would clearly derail the entire type of story it is.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:14:27 pm by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29621 on: December 03, 2016, 10:13:44 pm »

Yes but what you usually get is

"Big dumb hero finds a moderately attractive girl. He falls inlove instantly!"

"Big Dumb Hero has a lot of chemistry with everyone else. He still pines for Moderately attractive girl"

"Moderately Attractive girl says she cannot be with Big Dumb Hero"

"Big Dumb Hero says he cannot be with any of the people he has genuine chemistry with, in spite of chemistry. Moderately attractive girl is the only one for him"

Often the "designated romance" becomes less endearing and less well written then all the others...
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Reelya

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29622 on: December 03, 2016, 10:16:57 pm »

Well i think part of that is because they need to make the viewer believe that the "alternative girl" is in fact a valid choice. The original girl has the "established love interest" thing in her favor, so they need to give the new girl extra qualities to balance that out, so that the hero being torn is remotely believable. If he met an 8/10 girl, fell in love, then switched to a different 8/10 girl, everyone would be infuriated with the hero. So the "temptation" girl needs to be 9/10 or 10/10 so that you can believe the hero might consider ditching his g/f for her. They also need to fast-track the time from meeting to the decision, so of course they have to focus and exaggerate the chemistry between the two characters involved.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 10:22:14 pm by Reelya »
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Neonivek

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29623 on: December 03, 2016, 10:26:00 pm »

Well i think part of that is because they need to make the viewer believe that the "alternative girl" is in fact a valid choice. If she was merely as good as the "main girl" then everyone would root for main girl because she was there first. Because of the narrative structure, sometimes you need to unbalancing things in the present to create a different balance across the breadth of the story.

Well I think it is more like the "Danny Phantom" situation. The problem that arises with a "Designated Romance" is that it is designated... it is so destined that there is no need for the writers to really focus on it... And thus they don't other then empty platitudes or hints here and there.

So you get a LOT more time with the main character showing why anyone else BUT the designated love interest would work AND they never flesh out the chemistry between the two leads. Which in Danny Phantom when he finally DID get together with the designated love interest there was such little groundwork done it just flat out didn't work.

In fact, a lot of the time the main character spends the least amount of time with the designated love interest then with anyone else. Ouran Club is this, for example.

Prince of Tennis might not have had other female characters bit it shows it off quite well. The Female lead has so little role in the actual manga/anime that when I stopped watching for 2 weeks I actually completely forgot she existed in spite always being there. They don't really develop her as a character, give her a real arc (in spite hinting that there is one), or develop their relationship. Their relationship is just sooooo designated that when they finally get together it was like "Of course we would" in spite there being absolutely nothing there.
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Cruxador

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Re: I like anime, do you like anime?
« Reply #29624 on: December 04, 2016, 01:31:17 am »

Forms and patterns are everywhere in fiction, and they might seem limiting. But they're really not. Even the worst show ever made is a lot better than it could have been, because it was able to use narrative techniques from past stories to frame itself into something viewers can try and follow.
Well, this is saying that it's better in uplifting weak shows, and in that I agree, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a net gain, after all it could still be seen as constricting to stronger shows which can stand on their own merit. Of course, in that case existing patterns can be disregarded, and this does often occur in exceptional shows anyway. I agree with your general point that they're more likely a good thing, when they're used, but there's still a factor of limits to them, and that's a worthwhile trade-off in some cases and not others.

Quote
That's the thing: people complain about constraints in how genres are constructed, but if we got rid of those constraints you just know people would complain even more. We could be "more realistic" by showing the full time needed for people to walk to places, show them going to the toilet, and show them sleeping for 8 hours.
I reckon you were going for argumentum ad absurdum, but it seems more like a strawman since going to that level is neither something people really advocate (well, except maybe as an exercise for students of film and drama, not intended for consumers) nor is it a necessary logical progression of such arguments, I think. You're talking about showing the boring parts, but I don't think that's really the same as having characters other than the true love show up first in the story. There's nothing about interacting with love interests that you don't eventually end up with that's inherently boring. If you consider comparing it to real life, very few people sleep or go to the toilet because it's interesting and engaging, and while you could make an argument that they do walk for that reason, I think the appeal of that is mostly physiological as well. But plenty of people interact with the opposite sex for purely recreational reasons, both in a romantic or sexual context and otherwise. I don't really see this as equivalent.
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if you start allowing characters to do anything even if it's out of the genre, then the whole thing collapses. you do see people complaining "why didn't the characters do <thing X>" when "thing X" is the type of thing which would clearly derail the entire type of story it is.
When that happens, I think it's generally a matter that the audience members have failed to put themselves into the emotional mindset of the characters or (and this is fundamentally the same thing) the studio didn't do an adequate job of conveying that mindset. More rarely, it could be a case where the character realistically wouldn't have thought of the solution to the problem. Often, things that would derail the genre are a variation of the former version, where members of the audience see that a problem could be solved by being ruthless or callous, and then character action could indeed be attributed to genre, but it's more accurate to say that it's a realistic moral human behavior. But when there's no reason for a character's actions besides "that wouldn't fit the genre" (and this isn't something I can think of an example of anyway) then that seems like a poorly composed plot.

(lots of stuff, snipped since I'm not addressing specific bits)
I agree with the general thrust of what you're saying but notions of "how much chemistry they have" and "how well the character was developed" aren't really things that can be addressed in as concrete a way as you're implying, I feel. It's not like you could tally up instances of interaction and rate them on even a subjective scale and get something meaningful, if you were observing real-life relationships. Like, even though a lot of people may disagree, I think that the Re:Zero anime did a good job of something a bit like what you're complaining about, where there was interactions and time spent with Rem, and even though there was less going on between the "main girl" and Subaru for most of the show, it still felt believable that he was attracted to her and simply wasn't to Rem. Not as extreme as you're construing for the Danny Phantom thing, since they did have something going on, and I don't think this may be more of a clarification than a contradiction, but that's just a point about attempts to measure such things.
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